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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Gonna need a citation on this actually existing and being implemented in any games.
    I remember reading about this actualy, can't find the article at the moment, and I do believe its primarily single player games, but what happens is that if you die in a particular encounter a certain number of times, the game starts making it progressively easier until you beat it and feel accomplished, but in reality the game was programed to make it more doable. its not done for any nefarious reasons - its done so that people actualy enjoy themselves.

    in multiplayer mobile games, however, and I cannot provide citation for that, only anecdotal personal experience - I'm about 99% certain that at certain intervals, they program in levels that are impossible to finish, so that you waste all of your attempts and consider buying more of them and/or boosters. the reason i feel like this is a thing is not just running into those levels. but also abandoning a game for a few months, logging in again on a whim, trying it again, and having no issue with the level that made me dump it... only to run into those same impossible to finish issues 20 levels later.

  2. #162
    https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021...ing_full_price

    So the same guy that tried to throw Sony under the bus for not greenlighting his sequel pitch and instead moving Bend onto a new IP now blames gamers for it not happening cause they didn't buy the game at full price.

    More and more it seems like Sony dodged a bullet by getting rid of this guy, if they want a Days Gone sequel in the future a new director can probably do it more justice then the shitty division rip off this guy wanted the sequel to be.

    This dude took 7 years to ship Days Gone. He then tries to pitch an online coop based sequel to Sony which is more ambitious then the game they just took 7 years to make and he wonder why they declined? It has nothing to do with gamers buying your shit at full price dude, your pitch was trash and would of been either a cyberpunk level disaster or have taken 10 years to make because it was far too ambitious for a team that took 7 years to ship an open world single player game when Guerilla made Horizon in 4.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2021-04-18 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I remember reading about this actualy, can't find the article at the moment, and I do believe its primarily single player games, but what happens is that if you die in a particular encounter a certain number of times, the game starts making it progressively easier until you beat it and feel accomplished, but in reality the game was programed to make it more doable. its not done for any nefarious reasons - its done so that people actualy enjoy themselves.
    Vaguely reminds me of some patents filed, but nothing ever confirmed to actually be implemented in any game.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Vaguely reminds me of some patents filed, but nothing ever confirmed to actually be implemented in any game.
    Some games like Xenoblade and a few others ask if you if want to lower the difficulty if you die a few times at same spot but yea, I have never seen a game lower the difficulty without your permission.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Vaguely reminds me of some patents filed, but nothing ever confirmed to actually be implemented in any game.
    found this video, its not an article I remember, but it basically talks about the same thing. it also links to a GDC talk that goes into more detail, or so it seems, as that talk being over an hour, I haven't quite finished watching it.

    anyways, as I said most of the time, its not done for nefarious reasons but rather to make the game more fun (and destiny example he brings up is absolutely 100% confirmed https://kotaku.com/bungie-changes-de...cov-1820728952 )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Some games like Xenoblade and a few others ask if you if want to lower the difficulty if you die a few times at same spot but yea, I have never seen a game lower the difficulty without your permission.
    it doesn't lower the difficulty, SETTING but rather behind the scenes, tips the odds in your favor just a bit

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    it doesn't lower the difficulty, SETTING but rather behind the scenes, tips the odds in your favor just a bit
    So totally trust me bro with no proof or examples of this? Ok dude. You're linking things that aren't even the same thing and trying to relate them. What you actually describe would be a nightmare to code when you can simply offer difficulty settings for those who want them. Linking shit talking about putting loot drops or xp rate increases on players to keep them progressing is NOT the same thing as what you claimed, not even close.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2021-04-18 at 09:26 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    anyways, as I said most of the time, its not done for nefarious reasons but rather to make the game more fun (and destiny example he brings up is absolutely 100% confirmed https://kotaku.com/bungie-changes-de...cov-1820728952 )
    Don't have time to watch videos now but that's...not remotely what was being discussed. Not only is that an online-only game, but that's not the game changing anything behind the scenes as was mentioned. That's just something that existed behind the scenes, it wasn't changing/being altered based on player behavior/performance. It doesn't even tie into monetization as was initially alleged.

    Like, I remember the EA patent being filed by EA, which resulted in a lawsuit that was dropped earlier this year after they showed the team what was going on behind the curtain, which was not the dynamic difficulty system - https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...se_in_FIFA.php

    As well as an Activision patent around grouping players without MTX with players with MTX to try to incentivize purchases - https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/10/ac...otransactions/

    Which similarly we have zero evidence is in play in any game.

    Yes, some games may make adjustments behind the scenes, but there's vanishingly little evidence of any game that's implemented the system a la what was alleged against EA based on their patent. I get it, big companies do shady shit sometimes (a lot of the time), but the aggressive suspicion and pretty much open hostility that many gamers have towards the people that make their games like, borders on paranoia at times.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    So totally trust me bro with no proof or examples of this? Ok dude. You're linking things that aren't even the same thing and trying to relate them.
    I'm guessing you haven't actualy watched the video?
    I linked the article on Destiny as an extra proof.

    here is an actual GDC video that the shorter vid links to. and regardless of the current issues with presenter (which I have only just found out about when trying to make a search for written articles), as they have nothing to do with presentation itself - its still valid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YdJa7v99wM

    in a nutshell. game design lies to players BY design, in order to improve our experience of the game.

    you have GOT to stop being so combative and knee jerky, Tech.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    in a nutshell. game design lies to players BY design, in order to improve our experience of the game.
    A lot of us know this, an 99% of the time it's beneficial for players. It's working to improve the experience so it may not be as frustrating. The specifics of the "nefarious" manipulation alleged by Dope Danny simply don't exist to back it up.

    Are there any specific examples in the video you can reference? I'd be curious, though I do plan to give it a watch later (I enjoy GDC design talks, they're usually super interesting, even if often a bit dry).

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Don't have time to watch videos now but that's...not remotely what was being discussed. Not only is that an online-only game, but that's not the game changing anything behind the scenes as was mentioned. That's just something that existed behind the scenes, it wasn't changing/being altered based on player behavior/performance. It doesn't even tie into monetization as was initially alleged.

    Like, I remember the EA patent being filed by EA, which resulted in a lawsuit that was dropped earlier this year after they showed the team what was going on behind the curtain, which was not the dynamic difficulty system - https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...se_in_FIFA.php

    As well as an Activision patent around grouping players without MTX with players with MTX to try to incentivize purchases - https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/10/ac...otransactions/

    Which similarly we have zero evidence is in play in any game.

    Yes, some games may make adjustments behind the scenes, but there's vanishingly little evidence of any game that's implemented the system a la what was alleged against EA based on their patent. I get it, big companies do shady shit sometimes (a lot of the time), but the aggressive suspicion and pretty much open hostility that many gamers have towards the people that make their games like, borders on paranoia at times.
    sigh, I wish I never linked that article. I know what we are discussing. we are discussing games changing our experience under the hood, differences between what we see happening and actual numbers behind the scenes, etc. am I right?

    I have specifically stated that this is something that is primarily used in SINGLE player games and then alleged that multiplayer/mobile games do seem to use tactics that would encourage you to pay. no, I do not have any actual proof beyond personal experience. but given how much of the game design in general is trickery? is it so farfetched to assume that it in some way at least applies to multiplayer games as well?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    A lot of us know this, an 99% of the time it's beneficial for players. It's working to improve the experience so it may not be as frustrating. The specifics of the "nefarious" manipulation alleged by Dope Danny simply don't exist to back it up.

    Are there any specific examples in the video you can reference? I'd be curious, though I do plan to give it a watch later (I enjoy GDC design talks, they're usually super interesting, even if often a bit dry).
    first that comes to mind is hit points in doom. your last few hitpoints are worth more then your hitpoints at full bar (so to speak). rubberbanding in mario cart.

    but as I said, I absolutely unfortunately have no proof of nefarious practices behind the scenes as far as monetanization goes. only personal experiences that all too often get dismissed with random numbers are random.

  11. #171
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    Rubberbanding in Mario Kart is not an example that makes the game more "fun" Just kinda bullshit.
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Rubberbanding in Mario Kart is not an example that makes the game more "fun" Just kinda bullshit.
    my point exactly. not all of the behind the scenes techniques are for the good of the player. some of them we know about and have proof of.

  13. #173
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    well said. lol

    end of thread. right there.
    You both missed the point. Sony has decided not to fund any more of those niche experimental/innovative titles. That doesn't mean that we won't see the ones that are already in development. Sony wants to focus on established IP, they don't want to create new IP. While Nintendo has just announced that they will focus on new IP.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by BrintoSFJ View Post
    Sony has decided not to fund any more of those niche experimental/innovative titles.
    Wrong, try again. Sony literally picked up support for Kena and Oddworld in the past year after both studios where looking for additional funding. Returnal was greenlit and entered full development after the executive shakeup at Sony took place.

    But Sony declined an Days Gone sequel pitch(an AAA game) and moved an TLOU remake from a support studio to ND(an AAA game) this is clear and obvious proof sony won't fund smaller projects anymore! /s It's almost like no one missed the point, you just didn't actually read the article past a click bait headline because it literally had nothing to do with smaller games and projects and was talking about AAA ones.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2021-04-18 at 10:28 PM.

  15. #175
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    Look, all this industry stuff is very interesting, but only the games matter, right? I mean, at the end of they day, Microsoft wasn't a threat without Bethesda IP, and now they are. You aren't gonna win over gamers with coupons, but if you have the best games you will eventually compete and probably win. Make no mistake, something that is not a game isn't gonna move the needle much. I talk about Mattrick's quote all the time because it's fun, but really, do you think the Xbox would have failed that entire gen so bad if they had good games coming out? No, not likely.
    Microsoft acquired Bethesda because it is a threat. Microsoft threat isn't games though, it's its services. Acquiring Bethesda is just an expression of what it's been doing. Microsoft has the best services in the industry.

    Xbox is a unified platform that works very well between its consoles and PC. Backwards and parallel compatibility, even mobile devices can run their stuff because they have one of the better cloud services. Game Pass is ridiculous in the amount of stuff it offers and no comes with EA Play (a service that was good if you like EAs catalog) and Bethesda.

    Sony may have the exclusives but people are going to be like damn 'I can get a bunch of good non-exclusive with Xbox for a fraction of the price of playing them on a PlayStation".

    Sony will (and they say they they have a plan) to address the threat of Game Pass and Xbox as a service. That might explain why you're starting to see more Sony exclusives on the PC and PlayStation Now becoming a little better, but Sony is going have to come with something competitive with the next year or so if it wants to share the mainstream field.

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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Microsoft acquired Bethesda because it is a threat. Microsoft threat isn't games though, it's its services. Acquiring Bethesda is just an expression of what it's been doing. Microsoft has the best services in the industry.

    Xbox is a unified platform that works very well between its consoles and PC. Backwards and parallel compatibility, even mobile devices can run their stuff because they have one of the better cloud services. Game Pass is ridiculous in the amount of stuff it offers and no comes with EA Play (a service that was good if you like EAs catalog) and Bethesda.

    Sony may have the exclusives but people are going to be like damn 'I can get a bunch of good non-exclusive with Xbox for a fraction of the price of playing them on a PlayStation".

    Sony will (and they say they they have a plan) to address the threat of Game Pass and Xbox as a service. That might explain why you're starting to see more Sony exclusives on the PC and PlayStation Now becoming a little better, but Sony is going have to come with something competitive with the next year or so if it wants to share the mainstream field.
    Except none of this is happening. PS5 is literally the fastest selling console in history. Its a cool fan fiction though. Its absolutely laughable that you think a system that still can't meet demand and is yet the fastest selling one in US history has to do anything to "share the mainstream field". They literally ARE the mainstream field. It's MS who is trying desperately to get the mainstream field to notice them.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2021-04-18 at 10:41 PM.

  17. #177
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Vaguely reminds me of some patents filed, but nothing ever confirmed to actually be implemented in any game.
    Oh man I remember people losing their minds because of a Sony patent that said it was going to inject ads or something into your games. A billion years later there's no ads in my games.

    https://newatlas.com/sony-in-game-advertising/22743/

    The actual implementation of this tech are rich experience features such as being able to receive certain types of notifications in-game, the ability to pause games on demand without relying on the game, read a message, the resume the game. Stuff like that, but gamers love doom scrolling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Except none of this is happening. PS5 is literally the fastest selling console in history. Its a cool fan fiction though.
    I'm not denying that. I have a PS5 and have no plans of getting an Xbox anytime soon. At the same time I see that Xbox as a service is very good and that Game Pass is a threat. If you have a PC that can play, try Game Pass and tell me Microsoft hasn't found the product that will keep it a major player in the industry.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-04-18 at 10:47 PM.

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  18. #178
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Wrong, try again. Sony literally picked up support for Kena and Oddworld in the past year after both studios where looking for additional funding. Returnal was greenlit and entered full development after the executive shakeup at Sony took place.
    You know, the games you are mentioning have also received large funding from Epic Games for exclusivity? They are not solely dependent on Sony and the money Sony is giving them is most likely minuscule compared to the money they would have to spend for Days Gone2. But that is not the point here, Days Gone itself was a big success for Sony, not sure why they are not allowed to make a sequel.

    My point is different, according to the report, several mini studios under Sony has been denied funding for new game ideas they pitched and was approved previously and now being forced to work in remastering blockbusters or as subs for blockbuster studios. Clearly, they don't want to take the risk of creating new IP and instead want to bank on the already proven blockbuster IP.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Microsoft acquired Bethesda because it is a threat. Microsoft threat isn't games though, it's its services. Acquiring Bethesda is just an expression of what it's been doing. Microsoft has the best services in the industry.

    Xbox is a unified platform that works very well between its consoles and PC. Backwards and parallel compatibility, even mobile devices can run their stuff because they have one of the better cloud services. Game Pass is ridiculous in the amount of stuff it offers and no comes with EA Play (a service that was good if you like EAs catalog) and Bethesda.

    Sony may have the exclusives but people are going to be like damn 'I can get a bunch of good non-exclusive with Xbox for a fraction of the price of playing them on a PlayStation".

    Sony will (and they say they they have a plan) to address the threat of Game Pass and Xbox as a service. That might explain why you're starting to see more Sony exclusives on the PC and PlayStation Now becoming a little better, but Sony is going have to come with something competitive with the next year or so if it wants to share the mainstream field.
    I disagree with this. I think games are the sizzle that promotes the sale, not Gamepass. Without the next TES game(and other big games, some from Microsoft like Halo), I wouldn't even consider the ecosystem, and I'm certainly not looking at it for the cost savings. However, the next TES, I need to have a way to play that. IMO, irrespective of cost savings but with the games, you have a great and likely successful service. With cost savings but mediocre games, I'm not interested.

    I think MS realized they needed big name semi-exclusive content as a competitive advantage this gen, because that is all they were missing last gen. They could spend years trying to figure out how to make it themselves, or just buy Bethesda IP already in development, at a premium and guarantee an audience.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2021-04-19 at 01:48 PM.

  20. #180
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    You know its been a confirmed thing for like 15 years that most shooters, even on pc, hide tweaks on the backend to try and make the player feel more skilled than they are to aid retention so more people stick around to buy skins and lootboxes right?
    Hehe, expand that please. This will be enjoyable.
    My original opinion was that PC always been the platform for competative FPS. Matchmaking for mediocre brackets, or some other features to hand out lootboxes whatever have no impact on that. Those measures are meant for the bulk of the revenue, the scrubs and has no impact on a competative feature whatsoever.

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    Last edited by Bakis; 2021-04-19 at 08:50 PM.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

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