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  1. #61
    @ohwell

    Description of the Dragon Soul:

    One of an infinite number of potential outcomes, this timeway depicts the desolate future of Azeroth should its defenders fail to stop Deathwing. In this bleak future, Nozdormu has identified an anomaly that bars access to both the past and the Dragon Soul: a powerful creature from out of time, living alone amid time-twisted echoes of the past.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Did you not do the fight? That wasn't even Wrathion but a faceless one named Ki'merax disguised as a corrupted version of him.
    wrathion isnt immune to corruption,just like any fleshy being,he was the first uncorupted new born black dragon,unless its mentoned somewhere he somehow is immune to any influence

  3. #63
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wrathion isnt immune to corruption,just like any fleshy being,he was the first uncorupted new born black dragon,unless its mentoned somewhere he somehow is immune to any influence
    I think it is clear from 8.3 though that he is immune to the old gold corruption. That can always change given how lore is always being written but both Wrathion and players should have a high resistance if not immunity to old god corruption now.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-04-19 at 04:31 AM.
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  4. #64
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    But but he said in his boss fight he was indominable or unbeatable or something to that extent and as we see on these forums everything certain bosses say is dissected and treated like strict canon so if what old god minions say is canon and true, Deathwing isn't dead clearly since he said he can't be beaten.

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    Not quite. That literally was the future when you go to the dungeon. The plan was to go back and get the dragon soul. Problem is something was preventing us from going back in time. Noz sends us forward to the disturbance which was Murozond. We kill him in order to go back in time to get the dragon soul and upon the events of the raid, that is no longer the future. So it wasn't a what if but rather we change history to prevent that future.

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    It most certainly was Deathwing if you actually read the lore on the whole dungeon trio and Dragon Soul raid. You haven't read a thing about why we went to that dungeon clearly so you have no business speculating when all of your "points" were already addressed.
    But we did be him, Deathwing was high off old god juice so him stating he was unbeatable is the equivalent of a crackhead high off a 8th with a hi-point pistol in his hand.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wrathion isnt immune to corruption,just like any fleshy being,he was the first uncorupted new born black dragon,unless its mentoned somewhere he somehow is immune to any influence
    Okay...? What does that have to do with me correcting Nyel's comment? I never said Wrathion couldn't be corrupted.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    All these saying "Maybe it's wrathion." I have to ask who is driving him mad enough to become deathwing 2.0? Because the reason deathwing went mad simply put does not exist anymore.
    Not unless Visions of N'Zoth has double meaning. You experience it, see it, feel it as if it is real but everything about it is all visions.
    He was trying to manifest himself and his empire into reality but we know Nya'lotha is in a pocket dimension perhaps a part of Shadowlands since every dead old God related beings return to the place like Twisting Nether to Burning Legion faction.

    “In my research, I came across references to a place called Ny'alotha. A sleeping city of numberless crimes, where only dark things walk. But the Void deals in potentials... possibilities. Perhaps this Ny'alotha is not so much a physical location on Azeroth as it is a vision waiting to be made real.”
    — Wrathion[1]


    "N'Zoth began trying to tear down the veil separating Ny'alotha from the physical world[4] in order to merge the two realities into one and thereby transform Azeroth into the Black Empire.[8][11][12] This would also erase all that previously was.[13]"

    This is exactly what Sylvanas did when she shattered the Helm of Domination of the Lich King making Shadowlands accessible to mortals.


    Black Empire Obelisks are what anchor Ny'alotha to reality, allowing its denizens and structures to manifest in the real world.[14] Creations of the Old Gods that die in reality seem to return to Ny'alotha,[15][16] or at least they did before it was destroyed.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-19 at 08:17 AM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    You literally said he used his power to force that moment. That means it was in fact THE future. Just stop.
    No. The fact that there even was a possibility of another future means that there is no such thing. You either have potential futures or "the" future, you cannot have both. The moment other outcomes are possible, the notion of a single predetermined one goes out of the window.

    The fact that it wasn't the future that came to pass also means it wasn't the future, just that Murozond tried to make it so. As you know, he failed. He didn't use his power to force it. He used his power to attempt to force it.

  8. #68
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    But as you can see all the cast related to that dungeon are all present in Shadowlands. Does it mean Deathwing will have a comeback this time a d be successful?
    I don't think that it's actually intended. But we shall see soon enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  9. #69
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    The "End Time" dungeon in Cata was a potential future. According to Murozond, that future (as seen in the dungeon) was a better outcome than the true End Time. Whatver the true End Time is supposed to be for our prime timeline -- whether it be Old God victory (doubtful now), the Jailer wins (our current fight), or victory of another enemy (yet to be revealed) -- it supposed to be much, much worse than a dead planet conquered by the Old Gods.


    That said, the 4 major players of that dungeon are major players in the story currently, so it could just be coincidence. I do hope the Infinite Dragonflight have a bigger story arc in the future.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2021-04-19 at 08:11 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I don't think that it's actually intended. But we shall see soon enough.

    If Ysera can be found within Shadowlands and in Ardenweald then there should be a place for other dragons such as Malygos, Neltharion, Sinestra, Onyxia, Nefarian and perhaps Murozond himself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No. The fact that there even was a possibility of another future means that there is no such thing. You either have potential futures or "the" future, you cannot have both. The moment other outcomes are possible, the notion of a single predetermined one goes out of the window.

    The fact that it wasn't the future that came to pass also means it wasn't the future, just that Murozond tried to make it so. As you know, he failed. He didn't use his power to force it. He used his power to attempt to force it.

    Then somehow saying there is no such a thing contradicts what we know as Alternate Timeline merged with the main timeline. We knew what happened to those in Draenor and Yrael's lightbound, some creature escaping to Barrens., Mag'har's included.

    We are aware that such future exists light being totalitarian.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-20 at 11:00 AM.

  11. #71
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    If Ysera can be found within Shadowlands and in Ardenweald then there should be a place for other dragons such as Malygos, Neltharion, Sinestra, Onyxia, Nefarian and perhaps Murozond himself?
    Perhaps they are in one of the infinite realms of the Shadowlands we have no access to (and probably never will)
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-04-20 at 12:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  12. #72
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    If Ysera can be found within Shadowlands and in Ardenweald then there should be a place for other dragons such as Malygos, Neltharion, Sinestra, Onyxia, Nefarian and perhaps Murozond himself?
    Not necessarily. Ysera could be a special case given how she died and was blessed by Elune. Aviana's realm G'hanir has been stated to be the after life of all winged creatures on Azeroth including Dragons. There is also a quest in BFA to send a long dead dragons soul to G'hanir in order to stop him from being raised from the dead. Blizzard hasn't yet explained if G'hanir is a part of the Shadowlands or something else entirely.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/G%27Hanir
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Life_Preserver

    I can't recall it now but I feel like Arakkoa have been shown in the Shadowlands and previously it was stated Aviana was thinking about offering them a spot in/on G'hanir. The aspects though could all be unique in their own fashion and there are many different realms we haven't been shown in Shadowlands. The Dragon Isles could be the realm where dragons go when they die and could be the link to the next expansion.
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  13. #73
    Herald of the Titans Dristereau's Avatar
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    A time skip is more likely, humans like Jaina, Anduin and Calia preserved along with Thrall and Baine. Horde leadership otherwise doesn't age much (elves/undead) or have a clear leader (Trolls) and give other characters time to change. Alliance has Mekkatorque, Velen (practially immortal), Malfurion (casual Druid nap time), Dwarven Council and Genn/Turalyon/Vereesa. Out of both factions the only real issue is Mekkatorque, but we don't know how Gnomes age and Gnomes aren't exactly the biggest impact, the Dwarven Council, but that adds more Drama with an older son of Moira and Genn, who could be frail by that point with Turalyon/Vereesa practially immortal as well.

    A jump of 10/20 years would be enough time for young characters to be adults, drama/problems to occur and so on. I'm heavily leaning towards a lightbound Alliance with Turalyon at it's head with Exarch Yrel who arrives from AU Draenor.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Dristereau View Post
    A time skip is more likely, humans like Jaina, Anduin and Calia preserved along with Thrall and Baine. Horde leadership otherwise doesn't age much (elves/undead) or have a clear leader (Trolls) and give other characters time to change. Alliance has Mekkatorque, Velen (practially immortal), Malfurion (casual Druid nap time), Dwarven Council and Genn/Turalyon/Vereesa. Out of both factions the only real issue is Mekkatorque, but we don't know how Gnomes age and Gnomes aren't exactly the biggest impact, the Dwarven Council, but that adds more Drama with an older son of Moira and Genn, who could be frail by that point with Turalyon/Vereesa practially immortal as well.

    A jump of 10/20 years would be enough time for young characters to be adults, drama/problems to occur and so on. I'm heavily leaning towards a lightbound Alliance with Turalyon at it's head with Exarch Yrel who arrives from AU Draenor.
    Timeskip has already been debunked, it's not happening.
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  15. #75
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    happening.[/QUOTE]

    But we do have time walking and time traveling. As proven with Cataclysm's Hour of Twilight patch.also,Timeless Isle leading to WoD.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-20 at 04:37 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    The "End Time" dungeon in Cata was a potential future. According to Murozond, that future (as seen in the dungeon) was a better outcome than the true End Time. Whatver the true End Time is supposed to be for our prime timeline -- whether it be Old God victory (doubtful now), the Jailer wins (our current fight), or victory of another enemy (yet to be revealed) -- it supposed to be much, much worse than a dead planet conquered by the Old Gods.


    That said, the 4 major players of that dungeon are major players in the story currently, so it could just be coincidence. I do hope the Infinite Dragonflight have a bigger story arc in the future.
    I always took the True End Time to be the Hour of Twilight as described in Chronicles - the ultimate victory of the Void.

  17. #77
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    neither, the end of time is officially avoided in Cata
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Not THAT Deathwing. The awesome Deathwing was the original one that was brilliant, that plotted schemed and infiltrated. That turned people against each other. HE was a great villain. The writers completely destroyed the character by turning him into some mindless crazed idiot in Cata.
    When did you encounter that version?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    When did you encounter that version?
    He's talking about his appearance in Warcraft II and the novels around that time with the Daval Prestor plot.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Catclysm dungeon, Nozdormu became Murozond.
    A fight against Sylvanas, Tyrande, Baine and Jaina.
    Do you think End Times is happening now or after dealing with Shadowlands heralds End Times?


    New broadcast text from the returned Primus:Come. There is much to do, and the Shadowlands must know that I have returned in this twilight hour.
    Honestly it wouldn't surprise me to see Deathwing again now that you mention it.
    They bound and banished him with all manner of power, but very little of that has much to mean in the Shadowlands.

    And since a lot of players were very unhappy about the way we killed him, well, he might be due for a retrial.

    That said it seems obvious that the void is playing death and not the other way around, so those "twilight times" likely do indeed refer to the void and the old gods.
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