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  1. #101
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    At the same time the people in europe (not the church though) were burning a lot of people to appease their god.

    Go figure
    The part in brackets. I am so confused. Are you saying the church didn't burn people to appease their god?
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    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
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    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The question was not "how ethical was their society by modern standards", but "how advanced and developed were they as a culture".

    Also, the Aztecs killed a hell of a lot fewer Aztecs than Cortez and his buddies did. If you really want to go there. And ignoring what everyone else already pointed out.

    Also, it's a strange position to take an issue with the Aztecs over this when you yourself have supported the death penalty.
    Furthermore, many those sacrificial victims were murdered due to perceived utility (invoking deities for boons/miracles), as opposed to Romans literally murdering people for entertainment value (not defending either practice, just saying that both cultures were brutal af).

  3. #103
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The question was not "how ethical was their society by modern standards", but "how advanced and developed were they as a culture".

    Also, the Aztecs killed a hell of a lot fewer Aztecs than Cortez and his buddies did. If you really want to go there. And ignoring what everyone else already pointed out.

    Also, it's a strange position to take an issue with the Aztecs over this when you yourself have supported the death penalty.
    U want to compare how utilarian roman society building was to building pyramids? That's about the biggest waste of rock n manpower u could do. You are literally just stacking rock together in a triangle, most of the space is not, cannot even be used, only a fraction of it. Compare that to building a senate, aqueducts, etc.

    "You know, we have all these human resources, all this money, rocks n stuff, maybe we could make something good for our society so we n future generations could prosper!"
    "Nah, dude. Lets just take as much rock as we can find, throw it in a big pile, he who has the biggest pile wins!"
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-04-19 at 02:15 PM.

  4. #104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    U want to compare how utilarian roman society building was to building pyramids? That's about the biggest waste of rock n manpower u could do. You are literally just stacking rock together in a triangle, most of the space is not, cannot even be used, only a fraction of it. Compare that to building a senate, aqueducts, etc.

    "You know, we have all these human resources, all this money, rocks n stuff, maybe we could make something good for our society so we n future generations could prosper!"
    "Nah, dude. Lets just take as much rock as we can find, throw it in a big pile, he who has the biggest pile wins!"
    Roman Architecture was categorically not "utilitarian". It was explicitly intended as a statement of power and control, even the road-building. Most of the structures you'd pick out as "classic Roman architecture" boil down to temples or entertainment complexes like the Colosseum or the Circus Maximus.

    You're just prejudicially dismissing the achievements of non-white cultures, based on an entirely eurocentric set of standards.

    And I'm saying this as someone who specifically went to Italy and Greece to experience those structures first-hand. So I am by no means dismissing how impressive they are. I'm just not going to shit over non-white cultures with similarly-impressive architecture.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-04-19 at 02:39 PM.


  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That’s fantastic... WASP was the Nazi ideal... Did you know that Hitler wasn’t even blond, tall or blue eyed?
    No, the Nazi ideal was the Germanic or Aryan race (allowing variations of stature, hair and eye color). The Anglo-Saxon aren't the typical Aryans and WASP combines it with a class-concept which the Nazis rejected; and a religion that wasn't that important for them either.

    Are you blind to the difference? From a WASP-perspective the Nazis weren't really the ideal; whereas Hitler viewed the US as degenerates, hedonists, and materialists (although he admired the handling of the native Americans).

  6. #106
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    No, the Nazi ideal was the Germanic or Aryan race (allowing variations of stature, hair and eye color). The Anglo-Saxon aren't the typical Aryans and WASP combines it with a class-concept which the Nazis rejected; and a religion that wasn't that important for them either.

    Are you blind to the difference? From a WASP-perspective the Nazis weren't really the ideal; whereas Hitler viewed the US as degenerates, hedonists, and materialists (although he admired the handling of the native Americans).
    Hitler even called Slavs aryan, based on nothing, but political advantage. WASP was the ideal, which didn’t allow for variation. WASP was the ideal used in Britain, in part due to Saxons being invaded by the Germanic.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They're using the "America First" slogan.

    A slogan first used before WWII by Americans who supported the Nazis, to try and keep the USA out of the war.

    Check out how many of these early Dr. Seuss political cartoons specifically call out the America First movement; https://www.upworthy.com/9-political...relevant-today

    There is no "pretext". If you're pushing America First, you're pro-Nazi. This isn't even a dogwhistle at this point.

    Anyone pushing "America First" is either a Nazi themselves, or a Nazi supporter. Period. Without equivocation or exception.
    That they use the exact same mottos is dumbfounding. Do they think we're too stupid to learn from such reason history?

    The US response to the pandemic says "yes, 100% absolutely."
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    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Uhm... your images is from a movie... about the apocalypse...
    It really is weird how much conservatives claim to hate Hollywood, yet how often they confuse Hollywood movies for reality.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Hitler even called Slavs aryan, based on nothing, but political advantage. WASP was the ideal, which didn’t allow for variation.
    What are you talking about; the correct statement is that
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    the Nazi ideal was the Germanic or Aryan race (allowing variations of stature, hair and eye color). The Anglo-Saxon aren't the typical Aryans and WASP combines it with a class-concept which the Nazis rejected; and a religion that wasn't that important for them either.

    Are you blind to the difference? From a WASP-perspective the Nazis weren't really the ideal; whereas Hitler viewed the US as degenerates, hedonists, and materialists (although he admired the handling of the native Americans).
    Contrast a debutante ball (typical for WASP) with:
    "Women were expected to be strong, healthy, and vital. The sturdy peasant woman who worked the land and bore strong children was considered ideal, and women were praised for being athletic and tanned from working outdoors."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany

  10. #110
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Spartacus was like 1500 years prior and yes Romans were infinetely more civilized, our current law is based on Roman law not about cutting people peoples hearts out to please the sun god if the crops fail..
    King Leopold II of Belgium was cutting off the hands and feet of Africans who didn't make quotas or dared to cause trouble in the Congo. This was the late 19th Century. It's just one example of colonial atrocities committed by Europeans. Here's another one, Europeans purposefully spreading smallpox to Native Americans in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    There's plenty of European brutality and cruelty that is just as bad as the Aztecs ripping hearts out of sacrificial victims, and much of it far more recent than the Aztecs themselves. Don't be willfully ignorant.
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  11. #111
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    That’s fantastic... WASP was the Nazi ideal... Did you know that Hitler wasn’t even blond, tall or blue eyed?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uhm... your images is from a movie... about the apocalypse...



    - - - Updated - - -



    Mel Gibson... those are from Apokaliptico... let’s look at how cool, clean and totally not brutal the Romans were depicted by the same “artist”...



    Uh oh... who is than nice fella being treated all civilized and all? I wonder if this, very civilized and totally not like sacrifice, fellow was of any importance. I wonder if anyone knows the fantastically civilized life this random bloke had...

    People jacking to Rome are like MAGA... I’m guessing they don’t mean the time period when Christians were being executed. They don’t mean Caligula nor Pontius Pilate...
    The irony that MAGAts are spooging over Roman culture which crucified socialists of a certain religious creed is not lost on me.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The irony that MAGAts are spooging over Roman culture which crucified socialists of a certain religious creed is not lost on me.
    And was pretty gay as shit, as well. Like, dudes were just fuckin each other regularly without social consequences. The depths of the contradictions within their world views know few, if any ends.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And was pretty gay as shit, as well. Like, dudes were just fuckin each other regularly without social consequences.
    That seems like an oversimplification based on modern standards; or even a myth created by the early christians.

    By discussing "dudes" you imply that they were of equal status - and in that case there would have been social consequences (at least many say - we might have misunderstood them; and standards changed during the times): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...Male_sexuality

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The irony that MAGAts are spooging over Roman culture which crucified socialists of a certain religious creed is not lost on me.
    and didn't the Romans consider Anglo-Saxons to be barbarians? pretty sure most of "the Aryan race" at that time weren't friends with them.

  15. #115
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    and didn't the Romans consider Anglo-Saxons to be barbarians? pretty sure most of "the Aryan race" at that time weren't friends with them.
    They were in India...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    King Leopold II of Belgium was cutting off the hands and feet of Africans who didn't make quotas or dared to cause trouble in the Congo. This was the late 19th Century. It's just one example of colonial atrocities committed by Europeans. Here's another one, Europeans purposefully spreading smallpox to Native Americans in the 17th and 18th centuries.

    There's plenty of European brutality and cruelty that is just as bad as the Aztecs ripping hearts out of sacrificial victims, and much of it far more recent than the Aztecs themselves. Don't be willfully ignorant.
    There is really only one documented case in where some Franco-Swiss mercenaries serving under the British Crown wrote in their journals about trying to infect Native Americans during a siege. The issue is that the Natives looted clothes and blankets from a hospital that were infected from patients with smallpox as well. Everything else is debatable.

    Also, don't forget that the accounts about the Aztecs were written primarily by Spanish Priests. Who could have inflated or misrepresented the Aztecs to make them appear more barbaric as well.

  17. #117
    Bloodsail Admiral Karreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    The irony that MAGAts are spooging over Roman culture which crucified socialists of a certain religious creed is not lost on me.
    The GOP gave up on the teaching of Jesus Christ decades ago.
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  18. #118
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    and didn't the Romans consider Anglo-Saxons to be barbarians?
    No, Anglo-Saxons didn't yet exist. When the Romans were running Britain (which was then full of Britons and Picts), the Saxons (who certainly were considered barbarians) were still living in Saxony. Available evidence says they didn't begin to significantly migrate to the isles until after the Romans left in 410.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  19. #119
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post

    Also, don't forget that the accounts about the Aztecs were written primarily by Spanish Priests. Who could have inflated or misrepresented the Aztecs to make them appear more barbaric as well.
    While it is true that the spaniards tried to paint the aztecs in the worst possible light, archaeology suggests that most of their sacrifice reports are actually true.

    There is other evidence too, because the aztecs (as newcomers and conquererors) weren't exactly liked by the other peoples living there, so there are other sources for the amount/gruesomeness.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's literally white supremacist revisionist horseshit. The whole image of gleaming alabaster-white buildings and statues of Ancient Greece and Rome, all that white everywhere. Which was pretty explicitly adopted by the USA on its creation; just look at the major buildings and memorials in DC, like the Capitol Building or the Lincoln Memorial.

    Because, y'see, the problem is that Ancient Greece and Rome were never gleaming pure beacons of white architecture and sculpture. It's literally a false viewpoint, used to suppress the riotously colored truth; https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...ical-sculpture
    https://www.romaexperience.com/rome-...-ancient-rome/

    All that architecture and sculpture was painted.
    They probably wouldn’t have been big fans of the prejudice thoughts of Romans due to skin colour.

    Light skin has too much blood. Light skin meant good for battle but not intelligent but still brave.

    Dark skin meant shrewd and smart but cowards who would run from a fight. But Romana of course being neither too dark or light were the perfect balance. Not rushing off into battle due to overly brave and British white skin. And not too dark to the point they become shrewd tricksters who are pure cowards running away from a fight.

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