If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[cocomen2]

A ranged class for starters all have been melee so far.

You sound like that guy at WoD times

New class 100% not gonna be melee or use leather armor, trust me

[Mic_128]

Tinker class will always be a boring shit idea and I hope it will never see daylight.

I can totally get why people might not like Tinkers, but I can't see how it would be "boring".

[pacotaco]

a ranged dh so everyone loses their minds.

Like a mix of warlock and spellbreaker?

[Alanar]

I can totally get why people might not like Tinkers, but I can't see how it would be "boring".

Yea its an opinion ofc, but when I am playing a high fantasy game with death knights and fire balls then a class that needs fuel and has a jetback or what ever then ye I find that boring and not something I would be excited about.

[Teriz]

I honestly think they should add bard to the game but In all honesty blizzard is going to add whatever they want. The problem with these type of threads are certain individuals enter them and than derail the thread into their fan concept not letting telling everyone else they are wrong and it turns in to 100’s of pages of The same people arguing the same arguments.

Yeah, Bard is highly unlikely.

Blizzard made it rather clear that any new class has to match the theme of its expansion. Good luck coming up with a viable expansion themed around Bards, especially when there's no viable Bard hero in WoW, and there's no history of a Bard class in the entire franchise.

Secondly WoW doesn't support the Bard's playstyle. There was something similar with the old Shaman totems and Paladin auras, but that playstyle was removed because of Blizzard's "Bring the Player not the class" philosophy and the trinity system.

Despite arguments to the contrary, there's zero reason to bring a Bard class into the game that's just a typical spellcaster, since without its support angle, there's nothing special or unique about music-based magic.

[kiramon]

Yeah, Bard is highly unlikely.

Blizzard made it rather clear that any new class has to match the theme of its expansion. Good luck coming up with a viable expansion themed around Bards, especially when there's no viable Bard hero in WoW, and there's no history of a Bard class in the entire franchise.

Secondly WoW doesn't support the Bard's playstyle. There was something similar with the old Shaman totems and Paladin auras, but that playstyle was removed because of Blizzard's "Bring the Player not the class" philosophy and the trinity system.

Despite arguments to the contrary, there's zero reason to bring a Bard class into the game that's just a typical spellcaster, since without its support angle, there's nothing special or unique about music-based magic.

While I agree it's unlikely, there are several references to bards in the game (including a literal Bard-named character in the Rogue class hall), Kodos with drums were a thing, drums themselves are a thing, etc.

THAT. BEING. SAID.

Plenty of other games do bards without being fully-support based; obvious example is FF14, with its bard not focusing on songs like its FF11 counterpart. While bard is a support in Rift, support in general there wasn't the typical support in other games.

With all the support-esque abilities they are putting into Priest (Cooldown reductions, power infusion back, fae guardians as a whole), it seems they are becoming more keen on different styles of support, so a semi-lower DPS class with some support isn't too far stretched these days.

But nobody/everybody would take a support class that does damage+brings support
FF14 doesn't have this problem.

[Teriz]

While I agree it's unlikely, there are several references to bards in the game (including a literal Bard-named character in the Rogue class hall), Kodos with drums were a thing, drums themselves are a thing, etc.

THAT. BEING. SAID.

Plenty of other games do bards without being fully-support based; obvious example is FF14, with its bard not focusing on songs like its FF11 counterpart. While bard is a support in Rift, support in general there wasn't the typical support in other games.

With all the support-esque abilities they are putting into Priest (Cooldown reductions, power infusion back, fae guardians as a whole), it seems they are becoming more keen on different styles of support, so a semi-lower DPS class with some support isn't too far stretched these days.

But nobody/everybody would take a support class that does damage+brings support
FF14 doesn't have this problem.

According to that video, the Bard is the epic support guy, and it would appear that its offensive abilities come from Archers. Reminds me quite a bit of Ragnarok Online where the Bard and later Minstrel classes had arrow-based abilities from the archer class, and support abilities from their secondary jobs.

In any case, without a hero character to pull abilities from, this discussion is pointless. We simply have no determined direction for this concept, whereas we had a determined direction with DKs, Monks, and Demon Hunters even before they became actual classes.

[kiramon]

According to that video, the Bard is the epic support guy, and it would appear that its offensive abilities come from Archers. Reminds me quite a bit of Ragnarok Online where the Bard and later Minstrel classes had arrow-based abilities from the archer class, and support abilities from their secondary jobs.

Kinda. It is sorta like that from RO. But the bard is a ranged-DD first, of which there are 3 -- the other being dancer, who is now the better support. The buffs they bring arent huge either way. It's just kinda a "oh you do your thing and your group gets 3% crit"; they have some small like +20% healing for a single character on a cooldown and a -10% dmg (aoe) on a cooldown shared by the other 2 ranged classes (dnc/machinist).

Yet, 3% crit, 1% damage and 3% direct hit and a cooldown -10% damage made the class the "epic support guy." I'm sure wow could find a way to fit in a buffer.

Heck, we had "Bards" made out of Barbs in Diablo 2. let's just do that. Make a "Warhorn" or something spec for Warrior that focuses on shouts lol

[Teriz]

Kinda. It is sorta like that from RO. But the bard is a ranged-DD first, of which there are 3 -- the other being dancer, who is now the better support. The buffs they bring arent huge either way. It's just kinda a "oh you do your thing and your group gets 3% crit"; they have some small like +20% healing for a single character on a cooldown and a -10% dmg (aoe) on a cooldown shared by the other 2 ranged classes (dnc/machinist).

Yet, 3% crit, 1% damage and 3% direct hit and a cooldown -10% damage made the class the "epic support guy." I'm sure wow could find a way to fit in a buffer.

Heck, we had "Bards" made out of Barbs in Diablo 2. let's just do that. Make a "Warhorn" or something spec for Warrior that focuses on shouts lol

Well we do sort of have that via the Warrior class. They have quite a few voice-based abilities that buff or deal damage, so there's that.

[Traveler Voltin]

like is like zero lore to support a Bard class for WoW.

[Teriz]

like is like zero lore to support a Bard class for WoW.

Exactly. Which is why constructing an expansion that supports such a class is next to impossible.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Plenty of other games do bards without being fully-support based; obvious example is FF14, with its bard not focusing on songs like its FF11 counterpart.

[...]

But nobody/everybody would take a support class that does damage+brings support
FF14 doesn't have this problem.

That is not quite the case. Bards in FFXIV have undergone various changes. Before the current expansion Bards used to be way more focused on music, their whole storylines are focused on it as well. Only in SBr did they gut most of the support aspect in favor of focusing more on the archer aspect and being a proper DPS (FFXIV also only has a trinity system wise, not a designated supporter role that is enfoced like tank and healer). It's pretty much their hunter class now, sans the pet aspect (thankfully).

[Ielenia]

Yeah, Bard is highly unlikely.

The bard is "as likely" as any other fan class concept. Because we don't know what are the requirements for a class concept to be more 'viable' or more 'likely' than the others.

Blizzard made it rather clear that any new class has to match the theme of its expansion. Good luck coming up with a viable expansion themed around Bards,

False. That is a false equivalence. Expansions are not themed around the classes they introduce. Instead, the class introduces matches the general theme of the expansion.

especially when there's no viable Bard hero in WoW, and there's no history of a Bard class in the entire franchise.

And that is one hundred percent irrelevant as not only you have failed, time and again, to demonstrate it to be an actual thing. Worse: the fact the runemaster, a concept "without viable hero in WoW", still made it to the last three best picks for Wrath's expansion class, beating other contestants who have 'viable heroes' such as the demon hunter and tinker.

Secondly WoW doesn't support the Bard's playstyle.

Bards don't have to be "pure support". You have been told and demonstrated this so many times one can only think it's willing dishonesty of you to continue to repeat this falsehood. Bards easily fit the "tank-healer-dps" class mold of the game.

Despite arguments to the contrary, there's zero reason to bring a Bard class into the game that's just a typical spellcaster, since without its support angle,

Despite arguments to the contrary, there's zero reason not to bring a bard class into the game.

there's nothing special or unique about music-based magic.

By that logic, there is nothing special or unique about technology. A rocket is nothing more than a reskinned fireball.

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like is like zero lore to support a Bard class for WoW.

When you ignore all the lore regarding bards and what bards can do in WoW, it's easy to say "there's zero lore."

[Traveler Voltin]

Exactly. Which is why constructing an expansion that supports such a class is next to impossible.

they would need to have like 2-3 expansions to build up any lore for them.

[Teriz]

The bard is "as likely" as any other fan class concept. Because we don't know what are the requirements for a class concept to be more 'viable' or more 'likely' than the others.

We know what the requirements are, and the Bard does not measure up to those requirements.

By that logic, there is nothing special or unique about technology. A rocket is nothing more than a reskinned fireball.

And here you go bringing up the Tinker for no reason other than to derail the current topic.

[Cosmic Janitor]

they would need to have like 2-3 expansions to build up any lore for them.

Oh come on, they almost literally put their tumbs in their mouth and started blowing and out came a whole expansion of kung fu pandas. Someone lit a match near a fart and suddenly we have an expansion about the afterlife of wow that explains the whole franchise. They don't even need a single expansion to explore a class, that is done in a little zone, like DH or DK. Other games get away with 2 lines of flavor text on their website.

[Diaphin]

Il take it. I mean I realy like this.

I realy like your idea of sira as a warden and not the night elf warden. I feel like 2 dps and 1 tank would be bit more suitable imo. I dont see a healing spec being very fitting here and would like the dk idea of 2 dps and 1 tank spec.

I mean, Sira is a Night Elf Warden and in the boss fight, she utilized the traditional warden abilities while Maievs avatar of vengeance was fire themed. But in Darkshore and the novel, she was also thematically close to the raised Night Elf Dark Rangers, who would make the class available to the alliance. And Blizz mixing in other classes into a hero class isn't anything new, they did so with the Lich and Runemaster who were incorperated into the Death Knight. So Dark Warden would make sense for an additional Dark Ranger spec, especially as a Tank. It offers also quite some ideas for gameplay mechanics, where you reflect damage and maybe Avatar of Vengeance deals damage depending on the dmg you received shortly before using it.

And with Nathanos and Sylvanas, we also have two characters we can easily base the dps specs on. Nathanos would focus on blight dmg, probably dots and summoning undead pets while Sylvanas would focus on shadow-based death magic and where you could incorperate the old metamorphosis gameplay/voidform gameplay into the banshee form. Turning the Dark Warden into the Tank-Spec of the dark ranger class also offers the added benefit of having a greater diversity of set-designs to draw inspirations from once class sets return and having the Warden concept playable.

[Teriz]

Oh come on, they literally put their tumbs in their mouth and started blowing and out came a whole expansion of kung fu pandas. Someone lit a match near a fart and suddenly we have an expansion about the afterlife of wow that suddenly explains the whole franchise. They don't even need a single expansion to explore a class, that is done in a little zone, like DH or DK. Other games get away with 2 lines of flavor text on their website.

The lore behind Pandaria was seeded almost a decade before the release of MoP. The lore of the Shadowlands is pretty old too. Neither are new concepts to the Warcraft franchise.

[pacotaco]

While I agree it's unlikely, there are several references to bards in the game (including a literal Bard-named character in the Rogue class hall), Kodos with drums were a thing, drums themselves are a thing, etc.

THAT. BEING. SAID.

Plenty of other games do bards without being fully-support based; obvious example is FF14, with its bard not focusing on songs like its FF11 counterpart. While bard is a support in Rift, support in general there wasn't the typical support in other games.

With all the support-esque abilities they are putting into Priest (Cooldown reductions, power infusion back, fae guardians as a whole), it seems they are becoming more keen on different styles of support, so a semi-lower DPS class with some support isn't too far stretched these days.

But nobody/everybody would take a support class that does damage+brings support
FF14 doesn't have this problem.

The problem is that WoW had this, and they obliterated all instances to enforce a strict "Trinity" system. They're "bring the player, not the class" moto was from that time.
If you make a class that offers something that no other class can, then it becomes mandatory.
So you either make that something redundant (bloodlust/time warp), or you delete it (like they did with the druid and pala raid buffs).
Then you find you also have to kill hybrids because if they dont offer buffs, or another class offers it, then you can't balance the utility with poor dps, because "why bring more than one of those, if the buff is already covered?". Hybrids erased.

To bring a hybrid class like the bard, you need to change the current class design philosophy entirely.

With this, I'm not saying they should not add the class, but that in the current design I find it hard to fit.

[Ielenia]

We know what the requirements are, and the Bard does not measure up to those requirements.

We don't. And anyone who asserts otherwise, to the point of going against established evidence, is being willingly ignorant, and outright dishonest.

And here you go bringing up the Tinker for no reason other than to derail the current topic.

It's not a derailing. It's a viable comparison. By that same token, there's nothing special about shadow magic: it's just fire magic with a dark purple color. And that goes for everything in this game: "there's nothing special about anything, it's just this other thing with a different color/animation/sound effect."