m+ score opt out

[Hellobolis]

If people dont have the time, why aiming at more hardcore content?

I'm not raiding because I work a lot and I'm married, I have a dog to walk and play etc etc etc.
I can only do +m after dinner and at weekends. Sometimes I sacrifice my sleep time to run one or couple more keys.

sounds like you spend more time playing than me and i got cutting edge few weeks ago. but i guess you meant you don't have 3 hours of uninterrupted time in the evening.

M+ is worse in that regard though, as with playing just 3 hours a day it's quite possible to not get a specific key for a long long time if you have to rely on your own key.

Also, the lower the keys, more people sign up. So less oportunity to get into a group.

that actually true? i was always under the impressions the vast majority of runs were in the 12-15 range.

Also dont run a +10 and expect to get invites. Slowly climb ALL dungeons more or less at same lvl and that will raise your IO much higher.

+10 is a bit high sure. but +4/+7 range who cares.

It takes lot more effort to take off than to fly a plane or a rocket.

yes, and raider.io is like cruise control, great when youre already flying. but when you are taking off it doesn't exactly do much for you or might even be detrimental.

[Ealyssa]

You dont want a PVP rating, you don't do rated PVP

You don't want a PVE rating, you don't do rated PVE.

Period, really as simple as that. Stop being afraid of your shadow, the rating won't hurt you and steal your lunch...

[Hellobolis]

It also doesn't hurt this is like complaining that you can see arena rating prior to 1600.

no it's like complaining your arena rating is artificially reduced by 10% for every arena map you haven't played.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

People just need to realize no matter what people will find a way to judge you to attempt to make better groups. Item level, rio, current achievements, past achievements, walking up to you and inspecting you, asking questions, or filling out applications. It's how it's always worked in this game.

[Hellobolis]

People just need to realize no matter what people will find a way to judge you to attempt to make better groups. Item level, rio, current achievements, past achievements, walking up to you and inspecting you, asking questions, or filling out applications. It's how it's always worked in this game.

to an extend. at the end of the day most people are lazy and won't spend more effort vetting people than is required for the task at hand.

raider.io makes vetting too easy, which means there is overvetting at the low difficulty end of the spectrum.

[Kaver]

I've never done M+ and probably never will, but I'm curious, if I try to create a group will those joining expect me to lead and talk about tactics?

No at all. Tank are often expected to know the routes of the dungeons but other than that, nothing is expected. There is nothing scary about making groups.

[Coldkil]

You dont want a PVP rating, you don't do rated PVP

You don't want a PVE rating, you don't do rated PVE.

Period, really as simple as that. Stop being afraid of your shadow, the rating won't hurt you and steal your lunch...

Not really that simple. The bigger "issue" is that right now M+ are hands down the way to gear up your characters, as they were through Legion and BfA. They're super rewarding (through weekly cache) compared to raids, so most people playing PvE is just gonna jump into those to gear their characters, like they did with the PvP at the beginning because it was the fastest way to get stuff.

Things should change with 9.1 - Valor actually being a thing from day one (right now most people who could fully use Valor don't really need it and it's most useful for alts) and the new datamined drops from raid that should be something worth running for. Ifpeople who like raids could only do raids and gear up, then it wouldn't really be an issue.

The funniest part is that M+ are not rated content, especially up to +15. It's players that put an arbitrary score system over them because it would be easier to pick the best players for your group, and since there's no way to take it out without a massive uproar, Blizz ended just caving in and implement it officially.

I don't really care about r.io, only about gear to make my performance better (coupled with learning to play better). But i know r.io is a tool i have to use otherwise it would be an hell of a time. If you check my r.io page you can see how few runs i actually did, by targeting the "right ones", and i'm getting KSM which for many is just pesky, but given i did so few runs i'm perfectly happy with it. Defo gonna put more effort next season to be more on par with others and have less troubles.

EDIT: just to be super clear, scoring has nothing to do with the fact most people play for the rewards only. Having them "gated" behind a score they don't have any interest in getting is annoying as hell - so either you give up or play under the rules other people have chosen for you. Not saying it's right or people should have gear for free, at all. Just, many people sudden find how they're not that good as they thought they were, and then there's stupid people just checking "BIGGA NUMBERZ" and actually not using the tools provided in the right way.

[neescher]

Honestly, the M+ Score system is pointless if they don't launch or plan to launch an automatic queue system for M+. What will an "official" M+ score system accomplish that R.IO doesn't? The only benefit of a m+ score system would be to feed it into a queue system to make finding groups quicker.

If I could just queue for a +10 with, say, 1000 M+ score and wait until the queue pops that would actually be great. I would actually re-sub to the game if that happens.

I don't know why a healer or tank would *ever* use an automated system where they get bad group setups, so have fun with a 2 hour queue time as dps. As a healer myself, I would always pick and choose groups manually, where I can see that we have the correct covenant in the group, a combat res, a heroism, enough interrupts, appropriate dispels for the dungeon/affix (like having a poison dispel when the bees in mists decide to 5-stack someone again, or having enrage dispels for raging weeks or TOP).

Automatic queue might work for low keys, but even then I doubt many tanks/healers would use it, because there's just no reason.

[Azerate]

I've never done M+ and probably never will, but I'm curious, if I try to create a group will those joining expect me to lead and talk about tactics?

No. It is expected that you know the mechanics perfectly. For higher m+ you are probably also expected to know common routes, skips etc.

[Shakhar]

No. It is expected that you know the mechanics perfectly. For higher m+ you are probably also expected to know common routes, skips etc.

Actually if the key holder is a dps i often think that he knows nearly nothing and i am paying tax for joining someones key, of course depends on key level.

[Itishowitis]

to an extend. at the end of the day most people are lazy and won't spend more effort vetting people than is required for the task at hand.

raider.io makes vetting too easy, which means there is overvetting at the low difficulty end of the spectrum.

Vetting is easy because it has no consequences, why?

People don't want to create groups - either they want specific key (easy fixable) or social thing - player issue, don't know how to fix.

Lack of certain roles - tanks and healers. Results in a lot of dps full groups where vetting a tank means you will have to wait another 20min on mid range keys and vetting a dps is literally nothing. Hard fix - make tanking interesting, for all we know that SL might have been an attempt to do so, but clearly getting their faces melted is not fun, especially for mediocore tanks who are in it for rewards and not the challenge, it was way more fun to have 100% versatility boost in BfA and do some broken stuff go completely opposite - crazy stack HP and Twilight Devastation, while currently it is way more mechanical and skill based but it's very hard to be measured - dps can show their dick, but no one cares when tank mitigates 20% more dmg or does 1k more dps. Similar problems with healers, maybe just not as big.

Edit: Obviously second point changes would lead to heavier mixing of player layers - when I create a +15 run, I can easy fill it with 1.5+k score players, but if DPS were lacking, and I would have to invite 1.2k players together with 1.5k and those might not mix too well.

Top end keys wouldn't change much, anything 20+ is heavily filtered anyways and there are way more semi-premades and so on.

[anon5123]

Only idiots would opt out of it because then you have no idea how good/bad the people you're playing with are. Your pugs would be a complete gamble every time. Why would you willingly do that to yourself?

[Itishowitis]

Only idiots would opt out of it because then you have no idea how good/bad the people you're playing with are. Your pugs would be a complete gamble every time. Why would you willingly do that to yourself?

Exactly. You get a lot of keys in 20-22 range which you can pug based on rio and some metadata. Pugging of anything with any significant difficulties would be like joining AotC Sire groups where leader doesn't have it and doesnt really check if those 210-215 have it. Aka - failure 9/10 times. And in m+ you can't just do "another try" - key is fucked.

[Advent]

And it won’t be faster with that proposed system.

Solution: play a tank or heal.

That doesn't really help if I don't enjoy those roles at all. Which I do not. Never have.

[Helander]

could also disable the ability to see what class signs up and their ilvl, heck maybe just have a m+ dungeon finder for the opt outers.
no "gatekeeping" at all is exactly what they want.

All I can read is OP going "Im sick of not getting literally hard carried everywhere I go, pls carry me harder".

[Wuusah]

That doesn't really help if I don't enjoy those roles at all. Which I do not. Never have.

that's a you problem, not a game problem.

[Frolk]

People who wanna "opt out" are people who want to be carried.

[Showtimes24]

People who wanna "opt out" are people who want to be carried.

This. Anyone who cries about raider IO... are pure and simple people with low IO that wants to be carried and do not want to put in the work to learn the dungeon or how to play better. The blame game is much easier.

[Xath]

no it's like complaining your arena rating is artificially reduced by 10% for every arena map you haven't played.

Your arena rating starts at 0 and it's not arbitrary each dungeon has a different boss mechanics.

[Advent]

that's a you problem, not a game problem.

It's a game problem if those roles aren't enjoyable by a significant portion of players. It's a community problem if the reason they're not enjoyable is because of the players.