Will Nozdormu still Fall to Madness now that N'Zoth is Dealt With?

[sam86]

That would be pretty stupid to mess with the past if you won in the end

because in timeline A it worked because he did return and we didn't beat him, in timeline B we beat him, yeah headache almost like infinite loop

[huth]

Murozond exists in a different timeline. Any timeline where the Old God threat is unchecked leads to Nozdormu's madness and Murozond & The Infinite Flight's genesis. While Nozdormu may be saved in our timeline, there exist many others where he has fallen. We might actually be at increased risk of another Murozond interfering due to the diminished power of the Bronze Dragonflight since the fall of Deathwing.
Time Travel is a real mess of a concept to tangle with a story's continuity and metaphysics.

Except Nozdormu is explicitly excempted from this. There is only a single Nozdormu across all timelines. There is no such thing as "another Murozond", any Murozond is simply a different time in his life.

[Ohvul]

Except Nozdormu is explicitly excempted from this. There is only a single Nozdormu across all timelines. There is no such thing as "another Murozond", any Murozond is simply a different time in his life.

have you ever seen murozond and nozdormu in the same room

Imo we probably have stopped seeing nozdormu because murozond can ONLY travel to time locations nozdormu was previously present in. Meaning if nozdormu knows he is going to turn, if he avoids being present then murozond is incapable of having influence until his presence is reestablished into "our" timeline.

[huth]

have you ever seen murozond and nozdormu in the same room

Yes, we have. In End Time, where we kill him. Nozdormu also believes his turning to be inevitable.

[Aucald]

Yes, we have. In End Time, where we kill him. Nozdormu also believes his turning to be inevitable.

Nozdormu's fate is essentially a stable time-loop at this point. The act of killing his corrupted incarnation as Murozond to open the timeways to retrieve the Dragon Soul essentially requires that he becomes corrupt in the future, so that the heroes back in Cata can travel forward in time to kill him and thus attain the Dragon Soul he later uses alongside the other Aspects to kill Deathwing. How it will happen is anyone's guess, but it will happen, and Nozdormu is painfully aware of it at this point.

[Unholyground]

If you think this wasn't all part of the voids contingency plan you are fooling yourself OP. N'Zoth's essence is in the dagger, and C'Thun most definitely played a part in putting the most death/corruption resistant person in the lich king position. Even death may die, but what happens when the void corrupts the realm of death by our hand?

[Majerin]

Pretty sure Blizzard said N'zoth isn't dead. They said during Cata that we never killed the old gods, we only defeated an "Avatar" of them, which is why when we faught them all they were the size of house cats and not an entire kingdom like N'zoth was. So chances are we'll fight them again in a voidlord expansion in some form

Just to jump in here, they've since updated that. N'zoth and Y'shaarj are confirmed to be super dead. Yogg is confirmed to be regenerating. C'thun is speculated to be super dead considering the location of Sargeras' sword being where he was imprisoned.

On topic, considering the growing references to the infinite dragonflight I suspect Murozond will resurface before too long. Considering the more liberal time-travel stances they have shown, I think it's fairly likely they will go with an "End Time never happened" perspective. Time is canonically fluid in Warcraft, and only Deathwing's defeat was "locked in" to the time stream - considering Deathwing was defeated, End Time never happens and therefore Murozond is still an active threat.

Edit: To the poster above me, they established in the Kyrian bit that forces tied to cosmic entities go towards their own powers, not the Shadowlands. So creatures of the Light/Void/Fel do not go towards the normal realm of death, but to their own area. Rather than going to the "realm of the dead", void creatures are presumably sent back to the void just like demons are to the nether and the naaru are back to the light. Yogg's comment about being the god of death is 99% retconned until they clarify otherwise.

[huth]

Nozdormu's fate is essentially a stable time-loop at this point. The act of killing his corrupted incarnation as Murozond to open the timeways to retrieve the Dragon Soul essentially requires that he becomes corrupt in the future, so that the heroes back in Cata can travel forward in time to kill him and thus attain the Dragon Soul he later uses alongside the other Aspects to kill Deathwing. How it will happen is anyone's guess, but it will happen, and Nozdormu is painfully aware of it at this point.

As he should be, given that this kind of knowledge is essential to his job.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to jump in here, they've since updated that. N'zoth and Y'shaarj are confirmed to be super dead. Yogg is confirmed to be regenerating. C'thun is speculated to be super dead considering the location of Sargeras' sword being where he was imprisoned.

Hold a second, where did you get that from?

[Majerin]

As he should be, given that this kind of knowledge is essential to his job.

- - - Updated - - -



Hold a second, where did you get that from?

An interview from Danuser a little more than a year ago.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/are-old...d-r-wow-296046

They've reiterated the same thing a couple of times here and there with different levels of wishy-washyness, but this is the most recent "Word of God" statement (as far as I know, I could be mistaken and they've since changed their minds).

[huth]

An interview from Danuser a little more than a year ago.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/are-old...d-r-wow-296046

They've reiterated the same thing a couple of times here and there with different levels of wishy-washyness, but this is the most recent "Word of God" statement (as far as I know, I could be mistaken and they've since changed their minds).

Huh? How could that say anything about N'zoth, it predated 8.3. Also, it directly contradicts your claims - they don't go super dead, they just returned to the Void. Which is perfectly in line with what we know about "magic" creatures aligned with the cosmic forces.

[Selastan]

Old Gods aren't the only way to go crazy, you know. Malygos and Illidan did it the old fashioned way, Nozdormu can too. That or he could interact with the Old Gods in any number of different timelines.

[Majerin]

Huh? How could that say anything about N'zoth, it predated 8.3. Also, it directly contradicts your claims - they don't go super dead, they just returned to the Void. Which is perfectly in line with what we know about "magic" creatures aligned with the cosmic forces.

It predates 8.3 only in terms of release; 8.3 was already completed in terms of real content and preparing for release. The cinematic, plot, and what not were all completed long before that interview.

To quote from the interview regarding the death of old gods, "I would say we should consider them dead. However as with all things in World of Warcraft and the Warcraft's universe dead isn't always dead. If there was a coming of forth of the Old Gods or herald of the Old Gods come down from the great dark-- I can see that easily happening. Not saying that happening, I'm just saying death isn't the end of the line in World of Warcraft, and it really never has been. I think that's kind of been from your character to the world around you. There is a cycle."

For our purposes on Azeroth, they are super-dead. That means they have returned to the void and, as Danuser said in the interview, that is the only context in which they could come back. Yogg is a confirmed to be returning in some fashion (which we saw during Legion with the warrior questline). Perhaps I worded it too strongly by saying super-dead; I'd only meant it was confirmed they went to their version of the afterlife in the void.

Edit: Though I will say, I thought I'd remembered a more recent interview with Danuser reaffirming the fact N'zoth is dead-dead but I was unable to find it. If someone else knows of a better clarification than a pre-8.3 Shadowlands interview that would be welcome. As it stands, I'd hold the contention Y and N are sent back to the void as the best conclusion to draw.

[huth]

For our purposes on Azeroth, they are super-dead. That means they have returned to the void and, as Danuser said in the interview, that is the only context in which they could come back. Yogg is a confirmed to be returning in some fashion (which we saw during Legion with the warrior questline). Perhaps I worded it too strongly by saying super-dead; I'd only meant it was confirmed they went to their version of the afterlife in the void.

He pretty much says they could just bring them back whenever they feel like it. Super-dead implies something like permanently erased from existence, since normal death is more of an inconvenience to them. That goes well beyond "strongly worded" into way out of context use. They're barely even dead, just kicked out of the mortal realm for now, only a little worse than killing a demon since they need a bit more effort to come back.