Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[razorpax]

And this is the difference between the people that want to play the game on a decent level and those that want to be handed loot on a silver plater for the achievment of logging in.

The good players in the game did not just start good. They earned their skills and their loot in many many hours of trial and error. Take the group I was runnign with: We were running every Mythic in the first 1-2 weeks before Season 1 fully started, trying to gear as much as possible, then when we could go for M+ we did and slowly grinded through the tiers, learning the new dungeon mechanics and how they interacted with the known affixes, which dungeon was better to do on Tyranical and which on Fortified.
On top of that they learned their classes in a way that you only learn in M+, because a lot of class utility is wasted in raids. CCs, Stuns, Knockbacks, Snares, Roots, all these things you only ever use in M+ (and PvP but that is not my area).

The entire process takes months of time. Sure there are the absolute elites who earn their KSM achievment in the first week, but that is maybe 0,0001% of the playerbase. These are not the people we discuss here.

The above is doable by anyone. Anyone that has a wish to improve and progress, that is. It just takes time and effort, for some more for some less. But time is not the factor here, the factor is the "will to improve". That is what seperates the good players from the bad ones. Gear is only a secondary factor in this.

The only reason why several in this thread and myself are irked by the entitled arguments presented is that we went through the effort. We did the work, we earned our gear, we earned our skill and the so-called casuals here demand to just skip all this and be handed 226 gear because they cannot be arsed to do the work.

They do not need it, they just want it and they cannot even give a reason why they want it. And since the game does not oblige, they complain about no casual progression and elitism and then leave, knowing full well, that they could progress if they weren't too lazy for it.

Exactly
There’s a reason I went from a cesspool social guild sometimes running lfr in MoP to heroic progression on SoO

It’s wanting to do something
The only thing this thread has shown is people that have excuses as to why they can’t or shouldn’t have to do what the players they deem “elitist” do

It’s the same as when you have a guildie refusing to join vent because they don’t have a mic so they want you to do things like make macros

“How dare you not invite me to your group over the other guys that have experience and more gear!! You should want to teach me the fights instead of getting it done quickly”

It’s actually getting more and more pathetic that the blame falls on social issues or anxiety when in reality no matter who ya are you get nervous making the first step and expecting others to put in extra effort to make your experience better when you refuse to do the same for them is selfish and nothing to pity.


Make your own groups if you wanna get better gear and accept that you’re gonna fail instead of trying to get carried then bitching when you screw up the run for the people you used for a carry. Buy a token and use that

[Nite92]

Ah yes, 224 group ilvl is definitely overgeared AF, 3 ilvl over Limit's kill, we had 233 weapons, 233 trinkets 226 conduits etc, yep, go on.

Please try to see the bigger picture. Yes the ilvl is only 3 ilvl higher. BUT, the gear is way more optimized in terms of stats (which is huge), we have the final soulbind talent unlocked, a 2nd potency conduit, and a multitude of nerfs was applied to bosses.

[Frozenbro]

and a multitude of nerfs was applied to bosses.

M Denathrius wasnt nerfed, dont get down to his lvl, we dont need more uninformed people that dont do the content, also read the context before replying xd

[Nite92]

M Denathrius wasnt nerfed, dont get down to his lvl, we dont need more uninformed people that dont do the content, also read the context before replying xd

Uhhh, yes? Sire was not the hardest Boss. SLG was, by far.

The only uninformed person is you, if you think that character power only comes from ilvl in Shadowlands.

[Frozenbro]

Uhhh, yes? Sire was not the hardest Boss. SLG was, by far.

Yep completely agree, hence why you didnt read the context, guy was claiming that you need everything bis and maxed to clear end bosses, which was proven false by many people, so just dont bring the topic again, better to let him leave in the bubble of people that dont clear content.

[Nite92]

Yep completely agree, hence why you didnt read the context, guy was claiming that you need everything bis and maxed to clear end bosses, which was proven false by many people, so just dont bring the topic again, better to let him leave in the bubble of people that dont clear content.

Well, endboss implies hardest boss, atleast in my opinion.

[Frozenbro]

Well, endboss implies hardest boss, atleast in my opinion.

Following that criteria, his take is still false, since a lot of guilds outside world first killed SLG without everything bis, many even without renown 30+ aka prenerf, so idk why he did such a bad take.

[Necromantic]

Your point means absolutely nothing. No one made that claim. Being good at any 1 thing doesn't make you good at life. You quit(probably didn't as here you are) because the game doesn't suit your unreasonable demands.

Actually, his point does mean something. He's reinforcing the OP, which many others have done.

And casuals wanting better loot isn't any more of an unreasonable "request" (demand isn't even the right term here as nobody is telling Blizzard they must do anything) than someone requesting that only the opposition gets anything better.

[Daffan]

freebies make game pointless even for average player. why spend ages farming gear, doing raid more than 1 time when next patch u get as good for free

why farm anima when they just gonna give u 20000% buff for free

etc

the only people who are spared this horrible system are mythic raiders, who actually need the gear, everyone else might as well not be playing (which they don't, since the subs drop off like crazy after 2 weeks each patch)

[TheRevenantHero]

That is because nothing in FF is even heroic difficulty, let alone mythic. Its comparable to something between LFR and Normal. As for dungeons? yeah, heroic difficulty. You start offering content which is actually challenging, and you will have the same result as in any other mmo - just like the previous FF, which was notorious for obscene grinds, combined with moderate difficulty - the community was labelled "toxic" by many and still is to this day.

Comparing FF to WoW is like comparing a few laps at your local go-kart track with friends and the indy500, and asking "man, why are all these drivers so competitive? like just relax! its only a race! i never have this problem at my local track!"

Before the haters descend, i like FF, both SP and both mmos, and have played off and on since launch - its not BAD, its just the substantially lower difficulty caters to a different crowd, who are more interested in their cute little pets and haircuts and standing around the fountains doing dance recitals than crunching numbers and challenging themselves - and thats FINE!

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah, didn't say anything about "discouraging" anyone, i said disingenuous. If you look the dictionary up online and it probably has the above reply quoted as a prime example. Your reply proves what i said right, and im not even sure if you realise that.

So basically you have never played FF14 but feel like you can actually make claims about how it's nothing like WoW. FF14 absolutely does have difficulties like heroic and mythic. Hell, FF14 has a raid difficulty that is HARDER than WoW's mythic. It's called Ultimate. And before that, there is four other difficulties; normal, hard, extreme, and savage. So in your comparison, WoW is the go-kart track. Not FF14 lol. Maybe do a bit more research in the future before making a comment about FF14's difficulties. Because you are 100% wrong about your comments about the game.

[meowfurion]

Actually, his point does mean something. He's reinforcing the OP, which many others have done.

And casuals wanting better loot isn't any more of an unreasonable "request" (demand isn't even the right term here as nobody is telling Blizzard they must do anything) than someone requesting that only the opposition gets anything better.

Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.

[munkeyinorbit]

So basically you have never played FF14 but feel like you can actually make claims about how it's nothing like WoW. FF14 absolutely does have difficulties like heroic and mythic. Hell, FF14 has a raid difficulty that is HARDER than WoW's mythic. It's called Ultimate. And before that, there is four other difficulties; normal, hard, extreme, and savage. So in your comparison, WoW is the go-kart track. Not FF14 lol. Maybe do a bit more research in the future before making a comment about FF14's difficulties. Because you are 100% wrong about your comments about the game.

If YOU had done your research instead of attacking another user, YOU would know that the community views this "harder than mythic raiding" difficulty is about on par with Heroic difficulty in WoW. The community trump's any kind of narrative you are trying to create. Your attempts in attacking others is just sad.

[Echocho]

If YOU had done your research instead of attacking another user, YOU would know that the community views this "harder than mythic raiding" difficulty is about on par with Heroic difficulty in WoW. The community trump's any kind of narrative you are trying to create. Your attempts in attacking others is just sad.

Difficulty is very subjective. Unless someone has done both with any consistency and success I wouldn't listen to them regardless of them saying it's harder or easier.

Until then all you have is guesswork at best.

[This One Time At Bandcamp]

Guessing the "skilled" player have killed the content 10x before a casual player kills it.. (Because a casual dont get invited to progression)

So, the "skilled" player is prob. annoyed that his loot didnt drop after 10 tries, and yours drop after first try.

Doubt they think about you as a player, instead they think of the work that goes into getting particular BiS items, when you are missing only 1 item..

[munkeyinorbit]

Yes... months later with a lot better gear you can offset the requirements. I don't think you ever grasped my argument to began with.

Your argument states that end bosses cannot be cleared unless you grind grind grind. You were proven wrong and now you are pretending that it's about gear. Which has also been proven wrong. You are being very dishonest.

- - - Updated - - -

Once all the slower and lesser skilled players are driven off, I hope you guys are finally given the game you want.

What difference does it make? I don't want to play with them anyway and they don't actually want to play the game. They want to login, grab their gear and then do some WQ.

[Echocho]

What difference does it make? I don't want to play with them anyway and they don't actually want to play the game. They want to login, grab their gear and then do some WQ.

Because those players make up the bulk of the playerbase. If they leave we're down to Wildstar numbers and we all know what happened to that game.

WoW needs the casual playerbase to survive, it doesn't need the hardcore minmax community in the same way

[Tadkins]

Because those players make up the bulk of the playerbase. If they leave we're down to Wildstar numbers and we all know what happened to that game.

WoW needs the casual playerbase to survive, it doesn't need the hardcore minmax community in the same way

Correct. If I'm not allowed to have a place in the game, that's one less chunk of sub money I am giving to Blizzard. Make folks like me feel unwelcome and I'm sure it adds up. That will in turn hurt the content consumed by even the hardcore.

[TheRevenantHero]

If YOU had done your research instead of attacking another user, YOU would know that the community views this "harder than mythic raiding" difficulty is about on par with Heroic difficulty in WoW. The community trump's any kind of narrative you are trying to create. Your attempts in attacking others is just sad.

You're 100% wrong, but ok. Go off I guess. I have never met a single person that considered Ultimate raids in FF14 to be as difficult as Heroic raids in WoW. I've only met people that said it was worlds more difficult than mythic raids. It's clear you don't play the game either.

- - - Updated - - -

Because those players make up the bulk of the playerbase. If they leave we're down to Wildstar numbers and we all know what happened to that game.

WoW needs the casual playerbase to survive, it doesn't need the hardcore minmax community in the same way

I've tried making this exact point several times. The elitists never want to hear it. They think if Blizzard caters ONLY to them, that the game will be better when in reality the game will just lose subs in droves then ultimately go under like Wildstar did.

Though, for the record, Wildstar was a fantastic game. Its downfall was it tried to compete with WoW by making raids way too difficult.

[Revamp Man]

You're 100% wrong, but ok. Go off I guess. I have never met a single person that considered Ultimate raids in FF14 to be as difficult as Heroic raids in WoW. I've only met people that said it was worlds more difficult than mythic raids. It's clear you don't play the game either.

- - - Updated - - -



I've tried making this exact point several times. The elitists never want to hear it. They think if Blizzard caters ONLY to them, that the game will be better when in reality the game will just lose subs in droves then ultimately go under like Wildstar did.

Though, for the record, Wildstar was a fantastic game. Its downfall was it tried to compete with WoW by making raids way too difficult.

well players wanted "harder WoW" and then realized they didnt...also the endgame grind was retarded

[TheRevenantHero]

well players wanted "harder WoW" and then realized they didnt...also the endgame grind was retarded

Yeah the grind got REALLY bad. But I focused on the housing and roleplaying because the community was fantastic.