Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[PickleballAce]

It’s like people who try to conflate mass shootings, with shit like gang shootings. People do not see hand guns as the issue, for the same reason they don’t see majority of the crime that is committed with a hand gun, as an issue. Even when a mass shooting happens with a hand gun, such as 94, people do not want that repeated with an assault rifle. It shouldn’t be difficult to understand...

Honestly, it actually is kind of hard to follow.

Not to enter into some weird bizarro world where I'm asking you to defend gun violence, but what makes a death by handgun any different than a death by rifle? This isn't really doing much to dispel the notion that inner city violence is not an actual concern for liberals, with the real goal being just to irk conservatives (because Corn Pop ain't regulating some busters with an AR-15, but Cletus has a collection of them). If we're trying to go about this in good faith it'd make sense to me to target what is the actual source of the vast, vast majority of deaths. Are we legislating by feels rather than statistics?

If you're trying to pull a 5D Reverse UNO Trap Card then I'll give you a polite clap for the effort, but I think it's clear at this point that neither gang violence nor spree shootings are going to change the stance of those who are pro 2A.

And as much as people on your side tend to hate being corrected, we're not talking about Assault Rifles. Terminology matters because legislation relies on that terminology.

[Edge-]

Not to enter into some weird bizarro world where I'm asking you to defend gun violence, but what makes a death by handgun any different than a death by rifle?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

The Las Vegas massacre was a pretty good example, I think.

[PickleballAce]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting

The Las Vegas massacre was a pretty good example, I think.

Yet that still accounts for a minuscule portion of all gun deaths. Do they matter more because it was a Country Music Fest and not Hip Hop?

Shame that Trump would've banned bump stocks were it not for those meddling courts (bump-fired, hi-cap pistols are not unheard of...though bump stocking remains irrelevant to 99% of shooting scenarios because of the inaccuracy and waste of ammunition).

[Edge-]

Yet that still accounts for a minuscule portion of all gun deaths. Do they matter more because it was a Country Music Fest and not Hip Hop?

You asked about a difference, I provided an example of the difference between a handgun an a rifle.

[Deus Mortis]

You asked about a difference, I provided an example of the difference between a handgun an a rifle.

Here is another difference the worst school shooting to date in America was done by a Glock 19 and a Walter P22. Neither of which are rifles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting

[Masark]

Here is another difference the worst school shooting to date in America was done by a Glock 19 and a Walter P22. Neither of which are rifles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting

So what you're saying is we need to pass a handgun ban?

[Felya]

Honestly, it actually is kind of hard to follow.

You can do it, if you try... I believe in you...

Not to enter into some weird bizarro world where I'm asking you to defend gun violence, but what makes a death by handgun any different than a death by rifle?

I already said potential. People do not want to see crimes already happening with hand guns, be performed with weapons that have higher capacity and rate of fire.

This isn't really doing much to dispel the notion that inner city violence is not an actual concern for liberals, with the real goal being just to irk conservatives (because Corn Pop ain't regulating some busters with an AR-15, but Cletus has a collection of them). If we're trying to go about this in good faith it'd make sense to me to target what is the actual source of the vast, vast majority of deaths. Are we legislating by feels rather than statistics?

No, hand gun violence, that is between criminals or the result of a confrontation with criminals, are simply accepted. Shit happens... you might get struck by lightning... you might choke on a candy... It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do anything about the risk of lightning or chocking hazards. Banning candy and walking in lightning storms, is taking it too far... making it unreasonable... but, warning labels and surge protectors are a reasonable compromise.

If you want to advocate for banning hand guns, go for it... but, as I pointed out already... Aurora shooting resulted in assault rifle ban, not a handgun ban...

If you're trying to pull a 5D Reverse UNO Trap Card then I'll give you a polite clap for the effort, but I think it's clear at this point that neither gang violence nor spree shootings are going to change the stance of those who are pro 2A.

Yes, because despite the rhetoric... banning hand guns is on the far fringe... pretending that it’s just because inner city violence doesn’t matter, is not only ignoring that those are not exclusive to inner cities... but, hurts the NRA advocates, because they have to reconcile those wanting gun control, supporting the second amendment with respect to hand guns. Without the fear mongering of all guns being taken...

And as much as people on your side tend to hate being corrected, we're not talking about Assault Rifles. Terminology matters because legislation relies on that terminology.

My side? I don’t have a side... I know that it’s hard to communicate, without a caricature... but, I have no sides...

Also, to be clear... you are saying semantics mater, not terminology... last time I checked, no one needs a biology class to be against stem cell research. Semantics is a dog shit argument, that doesn’t work in any other regard. How many courses have you finished to support or be against renewable energy? Abortion? Walls? Any other argument or policy? No... this is bullshit semantics... it’s the Chewbacca defense...

[PickleballAce]

You can do it, if you try... I believe in you...

I already said potential. People do not want to see crimes already happening with hand guns, be performed with weapons that have higher capacity and rate of fire.

No, hand gun violence, that is between criminals or the result of a confrontation with criminals, are simply accepted. Shit happens... you might get struck by lightning... you might choke on a candy... It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do anything about the risk of lightning or chocking hazards. Banning candy and walking in lightning storms, is taking it too far... making it unreasonable... but, warning labels and surge protectors are a reasonable compromise.

If you want to advocate for banning hand guns, go for it... but, as I pointed out already... Aurora shooting resulted in assault rifle ban, not a handgun ban...

Yes, because despite the rhetoric... banning hand guns is on the far fringe... pretending that it’s just because inner city violence doesn’t matter, is not only ignoring that those are not exclusive to inner cities... but, hurts the NRA advocates, because they have to reconcile those wanting gun control, supporting the second amendment with respect to hand guns. Without the fear mongering of all guns being taken...

My side? I don’t have a side... I know that it’s hard to communicate, without a caricature... but, I have no sides...

Also, to be clear... you are saying semantics mater, not terminology... last time I checked, no one needs a biology class to be against stem cell research. Semantics is a dog shit argument, that doesn’t work in any other regard. How many courses have you finished to support or be against renewable energy? Abortion? Walls? Any other argument or policy? No... this is bullshit semantics... it’s the Chewbacca defense...

I'm actually with you Felya, I don't really give a shit about inner city violence either. Glad we've reached an accord.

[gordon15wp]

So what you're saying is we need to pass a handgun ban?

I think it's pretty necessary, for most of USA regions.

[Felya]

I'm actually with you Felya, I don't really give a shit about inner city violence either. Glad we've reached an accord.

That’s the thing I was trying to explain earlier, although it might have been a different thread.

Why would you, as a law abiding citizen, ever be shot by a criminal?

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I think it's pretty necessary, for most of USA regions.

It isn’t... well, you have to weight the need versus the actions necessary for the desired outcome. It’s an unreasonable demand. I’m not applying morality... logistics...

[Stormdash]

It's on now.

Supreme Court grants certiorari on challenge to NY carry permit structure, taking up 2nd Amendment question of the right to carry a gun outside the home for self-defense.

I'd go ahead an prepare for "may issue" to be obliterated as the constitutional fiction it is. The Court will uphold the state's discretion to require a permit but, IMO, strike down the state's discretion to refuse it on the basis of a state determination of whether or not you the citizen "needs" to carry.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/supreme...se-11619445425

[bladeXcrasher]

Looks like Chicago is tired of Indiana's inaction on part of a store linked to an alarmingly large portion of illegal guns the found. Twice ATF inspectors recommended the store have it's license revoked.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/4854619001/

[Kokolums]

And the gun people side continue to say how sick they are of it, too, yet fail to realize - the simple solution to gun violence would be to eliminate the guns. Factually and objectively speaking, no guns, no gun violence. Extreme? Of course. Unrealistic? In the United States of course it is. But it doesn't make it any less true.

That's a pipe dream.

What is going to happen is 3d printed guns will soon become a thing and widespread. Nations that currently ban guns are going to be drowning in guns in 10 years. And there is nothing you can do. And these 3d printed guns will not have a serial number and no way to trace the owner. You actually want to allow people to buy guns and force them to register them so you can track the damn things.

Your solution, banning guns, actually will turn things into the wild west where noone knows where the guns came from.

[Edge-]

That's a pipe dream.

What is going to happen is 3d printed guns will soon become a thing and widespread. Nations that currently ban guns are going to be drowning in guns in 10 years. And there is nothing you can do. And these 3d printed guns will not have a serial number and no way to trace the owner. You actually want to allow people to buy guns and force them to register them so you can track the damn things.

Your solution, banning guns, actually will turn things into the wild west where noone knows where the guns came from.

How will this be logisitically achieved? Is everyone going to get a 3D printer?

Or is there going to be like, underground 3D printing warehouses we all go to in order to get our ghost guns? How are we gonna keep this operation secret from the Feds or respective governments?

Yo, I got a lot of questions about this fanfiction.

[Shadowferal]

If I recall, 30% of guns confiscated from criminals in CA are ghost guns.
We know of the almost 400 million registered firearms because of serial numbers. Add ghosts and 3d...well, guns weren't really going anywhere anyway.

[Kokolums]

How will this be logisitically achieved? Is everyone going to get a 3D printer?

3d printers will be ubiquitous like cell phones. Hell, 3d printers can print 3d printers.

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And guns are just the *start* of the 3d printing era. They will be printing more advanced weaponry like killer drones. Someone could rent a warehouse, print 10,000 kill drones and go launch a full scale attack on a city. And the warehouse could be in Canada, Mexico, Cuba, etc.

Sometimes I think the future could be something like Cleopatra 2525, where the Earth's surface was a green paradise patrolled by massive killer drones called Baileys who killed humans on sight to protect the environment and everyone lived underground.

[Edge-]

3d printers will be ubiquitous like cell phones. Hell, 3d printers can print 3d printers.

It will? Why/how? What utility will it have that's similar to a phone? Will the more affordable ones (hundreds vs. thousands of dollars) still be able to produce a high enough quality ghost gun to function?

They will be printing more advanced weaponry like killer drones. Someone could rent a warehouse, print 10,000 kill drones and go launch a full scale attack on a city. And the warehouse could be in Canada, Mexico, Cuba, etc.

Man, you just really can't stop thinking about people killing the shit out of each other all the time, can you?

Are they gonna 3d print the electronics too? The batteries? The explosive materials? How will they source these things in the quantities you say without tripping all kinds of alarms?

[postman1782]

That's a pipe dream.

What is going to happen is 3d printed guns will soon become a thing and widespread. Nations that currently ban guns are going to be drowning in guns in 10 years. And there is nothing you can do. And these 3d printed guns will not have a serial number and no way to trace the owner. You actually want to allow people to buy guns and force them to register them so you can track the damn things.

Your solution, banning guns, actually will turn things into the wild west where noone knows where the guns came from.

You shoot them once, and you will be lucky if you have a hand left.

[Felya]

Hell, 3d printers can print 3d printers.

How much 3D printer spool, would be required to create 3D Filament?

[Masark]

I mean, a 3d printer is in the price range of handguns. For the same price as one gun you get a machine that can print many. Not that I'd trust a 3d printed gun for much, but as we improve 3d metal production it could get scary quick.

We don't need any improvements to print guns. Current metal printers can do that just fine and have been doing that for almost a decade now.

But said printers cost in the mid six figures. And to my knowledge, the prices haven't moved much, as lasers with that much oomph aren't cheap.