Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Endus]

What did you count? 1, 2, 11? That's not how numbers work.

No, I looked at actual timestamps.

Body cam footage from this link; https://www.nbc4i.com/video/columbus...-girl/6552182/

Officer exits car at 1:40 (just before it hits 1:41), and shots are fired right as it hits 1:52.

Linear time, man.

[Edge-]

The risk of that person succeeding is why we give cops guns in the first place.

That's literally not true at all, especially when you consider that most police in the UK, including those that handle situations like knife wielding suspects, aren't regularly armed.

[Al Gorefiend]

That's literally not true at all, especially when you consider that most police in the UK, including those that handle situations like knife wielding suspects, aren't regularly armed.

The situations in which the use of force is permitted in the UK comes down to the safety of nearby innocent people potentially getting hurt.

Used in this way, the phrase confuses reactive action with pre-determined policy. As police guidance indicates, the primary purpose of opening fire is:

To prevent an immediate threat to life by shooting to stop the subject from carrying out their intended or threatened course of action. In most circumstances this is achieved by aiming to strike the central body mass (i.e. the torso)

https://theconversation.com/heres-wh...al-force-76666

Cops in the UK would have shot knife wielding 16 year old

[Edge-]

The situations in which the use of force is permitted in the UK comes down to the safety of nearby innocent people potentially getting hurt.

https://theconversation.com/heres-wh...al-force-76666

Ok, but that's still not why law enforcement officers are armed, hence me pointing out that UK police are routinely not armed with service weapons, which you claimed was the whole reason officers were armed to begin with.

[Felya]

The risk of that person succeeding is why we give cops guns in the first place.

That’s not true...

[Edge-]

My current takeaway from this thread at present is that far too many US cops are just complete dogshit at their jobs, but enough people have that boot down their throat that it doesn't matter.

The long acceptance of excessive police violence against "people who deserve it" is slowly being reckoned with. Very slowly.

[Elegiac]

My current takeaway from this thread at present is that far too many US cops are just complete dogshit at their jobs, but enough people have that boot down their throat that it doesn't matter.

Which is doubly ironic considering the people who are generally pro-cop live in the least policed areas and live in a largely unpoliced world already.

[Al Gorefiend]

Ok, but that's still not why law enforcement officers are armed, hence me pointing out that UK police are routinely not armed with service weapons, which you claimed was the whole reason officers were armed to begin with.

Why arm them then

- - - Updated - - -

My current takeaway from this thread at present is that far too many US cops are just complete dogshit at their jobs, but enough people have that boot so far down their throat that it doesn't matter.

Thats not true for me. Im able to tell based on what facts the media gave us the difference between cops like chauvin and cops like Bryant shooter. One was murder, one is clearly not.

[Felya]

Why arm them then

In US? Second Amendment... but, in general, intimidation...

[LilSaihah]

I'm not really sure what the problem is with this shooting. It seems to me like the officer shot the girl mid-lunge; clear threat to life. If it was a civilian intervening, there wouldn't be any complaint. If the girl in the pink sweater had been armed and fired in this situation, we probably wouldn't even know about it.

The only problem I think I have with this situation is that he fired four times.

[fwc577]

No, I looked at actual timestamps.

Body cam footage from this link; https://www.nbc4i.com/video/columbus...-girl/6552182/

Officer exits car at 1:40 (just before it hits 1:41), and shots are fired right as it hits 1:52.

Linear time, man.

We're discussing different things here. The 3 seconds is from the point of when he sees the knife and fires. Still, 11 seconds to assess a situation where there are 6+ people and a fight is going on.

3 seconds from point of seeing the knife to firing his weapon.

[Al Gorefiend]

In US? Second Amendment... but, in general, intimidation...

No that really doesn't sound honest. Intimidation? Really? I'm beginning to think the image being painted of cops by the anti-crowd is something out of Mad Max. The act of committing the crime itself isn't met by police force as much as direct refusal to obey commands as a potentially dangerous person.

There are horrible cops. Chauvin, the chick cop who broke into the wrong apartment unit, those are indefensible except to the most asinine of bootlickers.

This isn't one of those cases, there was life in danger.

[Edge-]

Why arm them then

In the US, because it's highly likely that they'll be dealing with situations where suspects or others involve may be armed with guns. That's why they're not standard issue in many other countries, though are tools that police still have access to and can be used in situations that call for it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...debate/613258/

Like, pretty often it seems that arming US police is a mistake because they're panicky, unpredictable, and likely to shoot someone unarmed, or who has a legal weapon that they are not holding/reaching for/using to threaten anyone else. Simply having it.

[Edge-]

Intimidation? Really? I'm beginning to think the image being painted of cops by the anti-crowd is something out of Mad Max.

Out of curiosity, how familiar with the history of police in the US are you?

There are horrible cops. Chauvin, the chick cop who broke into the wrong apartment unit, those are indefensible except to the most asinine of bootlickers.

Yet they often enjoy broad support from their colleagues, meaning that they're not the only bad cops, its all of those that also support them.

[Al Gorefiend]

Out of curiosity, how familiar with the history of police in the US are you?



Yet they often enjoy broad support from their colleagues, meaning that they're not the only bad cops, its all of those that also support them.

Do you mean history as in recent events, or like the historical creation of?

[Edge-]

Sounds like they lack experience in reality. I'm not so sure that is experience they'd be willing to get, though.

Seriously, my experiences with cops as a child were overwhelming positive, including the one time a cop could have totally busted me for smoking weed when I was a teenager. Why? Because I was a white kid growing up in a smaller upper class city, where our police force was functionally 2 cops out in patrol cars doing the rounds and a few at the department sitting around. Nothing ever happened, you rarely ever saw the cops, and while there were break ins and some straight up robberies in some of the neighborhooods immediately around the freeway (where I lived!) you never saw any kind of hostile/militant police presense.

I mean hell, thinking back it's kinda silly at times. Especially as I'd see the cops in the last city I lived in (much bigger, but very much an upper class city with a fancy shopping district and everything) with fucking AR-15's in the center console of their vehicles, with magazines in. There were maybe 3 shootings in all the years I lived there, a few at downtown bars known to be awful and one where the cops shot a Black kid who was known to have mental problems (and one the settled on civil charges on). WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NEED TO SHOW THAT KIND OF EXPLICIT THREAT OF FORCE? They don't. It's pure intimidation, they're not needing to grab their rifles at the drop of a pin and those can absolutely be safely and securely stored in the trunks of their vehicles.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you mean history as in recent events, or like the historical creation of?

The creation of police forces in the US from the early slave-catcher days, throughout their use as a tool to reinforce slavery, taken from beyond the slave days to their use to brutally squash the labor movement etc. etc. etc. etc.

The history of policing in the US is kinda fucking awful as fuck on every level, and it's the foundation for our modern police forces and why there remain extensive institutional problems.

[Al Gorefiend]

Seriously, my experiences with cops as a child were overwhelming positive, including the one time a cop could have totally busted me for smoking weed when I was a teenager. Why? Because I was a white kid growing up in a smaller upper class city, where our police force was functionally 2 cops out in patrol cars doing the rounds and a few at the department sitting around. Nothing ever happened, you rarely ever saw the cops, and while there were break ins and some straight up robberies in some of the neighborhooods immediately around the freeway (where I lived!) you never saw any kind of hostile/militant police presense.

I mean hell, thinking back it's kinda silly at times. Especially as I'd see the cops in the last city I lived in (much bigger, but very much an upper class city with a fancy shopping district and everything) with fucking AR-15's in the center console of their vehicles, with magazines in. There were maybe 3 shootings in all the years I lived there, a few at downtown bars known to be awful and one where the cops shot a Black kid who was known to have mental problems (and one the settled on civil charges on). WHY THE FUCK DO THEY NEED TO SHOW THAT KIND OF EXPLICIT THREAT OF FORCE? They don't. It's pure intimidation, they're not needing to grab their rifles at the drop of a pin and those can absolutely be safely and securely stored in the trunks of their vehicles.

- - - Updated - - -



The creation of police forces in the US from the early slave-catcher days, throughout their use as a tool to reinforce slavery, taken from beyond the slave days to their use to brutally squash the labor movement etc. etc. etc. etc.

The history of policing in the US is kinda fucking awful as fuck on every level, and it's the foundation for our modern police forces and why there remain extensive institutional problems.

In your perfect scenario where you get to play God. What do you do to fix the American police force and ensure this never happens again for the next 100 years?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I'm not even a cop supporter.

I'm just someone who can use logic to see when someone is justified and I'm not going to cry over a justified shooting,

"fuck around and find out"

She committed attempted murder when she lunged at the other girl with the knife.

So you're fine with cops playing judge, jury, and executioner and completely ignoring the justice system altogether. Great, good to know that you don't believe in the concept of justice under the US legal system.

Mind if I ask if there is any particular reason that you're choosing to die on the hill of "lethal force was the only legally justifiable action to take"?

[Edge-]

In your perfect scenario where you get to play God. What do you do to fix the American police force and ensure this never happens again for the next 100 years?

I mean, if you're gonna make such a bad faith question I'm not even going to bother to respond. Nobody is going to pretend that you can fix everything and that there won't be mistakes/tragedies/etc.

If you want a serious discussion, ask a serious question.

[fwc577]

So you're fine with cops playing judge, jury, and executioner and completely ignoring the justice system altogether. Great, good to know that you don't believe in the concept of justice under the US legal system.

Mind if I ask if there is any particular reason that you're choosing to die on the hill of "lethal force was the only legally justifiable action to take"?

So you're fine with Bryant playing executioner on some teen in pink because she's having a bad day?