Russia threatening to invade Ukraine 2.0

[Shalcker]

The US is a top exporter of weapons around the world we don't need to recycle anything.

They aren't necessarily getting new stuff.

And yes, you do - after all "militarization of police" is also going because US Army is trying to get rid of all old but still technically usable equipment to get through their bloated budget for new stuff.

[Draco-Onis]

They aren't necessarily getting new stuff.

And yes, you do - after all "militarization of police" is also going because US Army is trying to get rid of all old but still technically usable equipment to get through their bloated budget for new stuff.

The militarization of police has more to do with politics and problems with policing than an overwhelming number of arms in the US unless you think we have a surplus of robot dogs we need to get rid of too. And not new is not the same as recycling you don't seem to know what the word means.

[Shalcker]

The militarization of police has more to do with politics and problems with policing than an overwhelming number of arms in the US unless you think we have a surplus of robot dogs we need to get rid of too. And not new is not the same as recycling you don't seem to know what the word means.

As far as i'm aware (from this very forum) repurposed military stuff is literally cheaper then any alternative for police.

Obviously not everything can be covered by that.


...i'm fairly certain that whatever Ukraine is going to get will be going at full sticker price though.

[Draco-Onis]

As far as i'm aware (from this very forum) repurposed military stuff is literally cheaper then any alternative for police.

Obviously not everything can be covered by that.


...i'm fairly certain that whatever Ukraine is going to get will be going at full sticker price though.

As long as the equipment can kill only Russian propagandist will care.

[Easo]

We did, do, and will.

Then be the pariah you so very much wish to be and stop whining about the evuuul West creeping in on poor Russia.
You are ridiculous, your bullshit about how Russia's economy and prices actually are fine no matter how much the rouble keeps falling was simply incredible. My guess is that someone counted the beans in Kremlin and decided that they really do not need new sanctions and restrictions regarding any shit in Ukraine, thus the withdrawal.

I have someone in Russia, a Russian, basic white collar worker,we have talked about topics like these. That person would look at you and laugh, then ask a question - How does all of this help living better? How has all the recent Russia's politics/military actions helped the average Russian? That person was raging about the price increases, the same ones you said do not matter. Some official in Russia said something like "Low course of rouble is good for economy", then was promptly ridiculed - makes drawing similarities with you quite simple.
I gotta wonder, where you work and how much you earn, because you seem so very disconnected from the reality.

This is the important bit. This is why the EU isn't imperialist but YOU are. The willingness to use force when you have nothing of value to offer, you don't have partners or allies, you have subjects.

This is it. Russia has that stupid saying about how their only allies are army and fleet, then they keep wondering why no one likes them, why the supposed allies are seeking ties elsewhere, which then leads to calling them traitors and repeating the saying (thus completing the circle).
As someone pointed out in once quite good military news site about book review of Russia and it's "allies" - the mentality is so bad that Russia understands word "ally" as "vassal", which can be commanded at will. I could almost see some people in comments having their minds blown by that revelation and it's implications.
This is why Russia does not understand NATO in principle - so many Russians simply cannot wrap their heads around the meaning of the word "ally". It gotta be the overlord USA, everyone is just a puppet, no no no, it cannot be anything else, USA commands them all, they are not independent, blah blah blah.

[Shalcker]

Then be the pariah you so very much wish to be and stop whining about the evuuul West creeping in on poor Russia.

If you missed it we already are! And nope, not going to stop because you cannot make us do that.

Your opinion literally doesn't matter.

You are ridiculous, your bullshit about how Russia's economy and prices actually are fine no matter how much the rouble keeps falling was simply incredible. My guess is that someone counted the beans in Kremlin and decided that they really do not need new sanctions and restrictions regarding any shit in Ukraine, thus the withdrawal.

My guess is that they just tested how fast things can get there if shit will hit the fan.
Nothing to do with sanctions that will come regardless of what Russia does - not like there is shortage of reasons, real or made up.

I have someone in Russia, a Russian, basic white collar worker,we have talked about topics like these. That person would look at you and laugh, then ask a question - How does all of this help living better? How has all the recent Russia's politics/military actions helped the average Russian? That person was raging about the price increases, the same ones you said do not matter. Some official in Russia said something like "Low course of rouble is good for economy", then was promptly ridiculed - makes drawing similarities with you quite simple.
I gotta wonder, where you work and how much you earn, because you seem so very disconnected from the reality.

Price increases do happen - and they do matter. Rouble exchange rate has little to do with it though - it hovered between 70 and 80 for last year, just 14% variance.

Yes, low rouble is good for economy in various ways - assuming broader world economy picks up. Which it doesn't seem to be.

This is why Russia does not understand NATO in principle - so many Russians simply cannot wrap their heads around the meaning of the word "ally". It gotta be the overlord USA, everyone is just a puppet, no no no, it cannot be anything else, USA commands them all, they are not independent, blah blah blah.

It is certainly more complicated then that, but US has their hand in plenty of pies, and denying that is just as silly.

[Shadowferal]

Ukraine to be used as dump for all surplus military equipment that would be cheaper to ship to Ukraine then to recycle (especially at US prices).

The US congressional action had the desired effect. One day later Russian forces are being pulled back.

[Felya]

The US congressional action had the desired effect. One day later Russian forces are being pulled back.

Yeah, it’s been pointed out that Putin without Trump, is back to being a pussy. Tail squarely placed between his cheeks...

[Shalcker]

The US congressional action had the desired effect. One day later Russian forces are being pulled back.

Right, and my anti-alligator talisman is working since there are no alligators around!

You give a bit too much importance to your Congress decisions. If it worked shouldn't that pullback happened when you sanctioned Russian debt? Or when NATO cancelled deployment to Black Sea?

[Felya]

Right, and my anti-alligator talisman is working since there are no alligators around!

You give a bit too much importance to your Congress decisions. If it worked shouldn't that pullback happened when you sanctioned Russian debt? Or when NATO cancelled deployment to Black Sea?

No, because Putin made his last ditch effort with his speech a couple of days ago... this has been explained many times. This was Putin’s reply to sanctions, since the best they could muster directly targeting US is banning adoption... since Russia can only try to influence through proxy, like Ukraine... but, when your speech is met with in deference, like a dog you don’t even bother stepping over... Putin is done... because he got nothing. A hot war is as bad for oligarchs as sanctions... everyone knows that... and you don’t have the gentle hand of Trump, meeting your iron fist...

[zealo]

Russia should get kicked out of SWIFT if the talking point is that Russian economy is doing just fine under sanctions, and that the threat of renewed ones have no role in Russia deciding to back down a bit just days later.

Clearly, it isn't being hit hard enough by them, then.

[TigTone]

Imo Russia’s biggest mistake is further alienating itself from the west.

In the long run it’s alliance with China will only benefit China.

Eventually China is going to say it’s time for you too be assimilated and educated in our “wonderful” camps.

After it makes sure it makes Russia solely dependent on chinas economy.

[CostinR]

Russia should get kicked out of SWIFT if the talking point is that Russian economy is doing just fine under sanctions, and that the threat of renewed ones have no role in Russia deciding to back down a bit just days later.

Clearly, it isn't being hit hard enough by them, then.

Sanctions are a waste of time, space and money on all sides, everyone pays a price for them. There was a hearing in Congress years ago talking about sanctions and one the things mentioned is that the US asks it's allies to pay an economic price when they do use sanctions.

If sanctions can't take down North Korea or most crucially change it's behavior how in the world do you think they will change anything with Russia: Which is significantly larger and has a growing economy? You can make life a living hell for regular people in Russia but it won't matter. Look at Iran as another example, and again Iran is nowhere near Russia's importance, size or power.

Imo Russia’s biggest mistake is further alienating itself from the west.

In the long run it’s alliance with China will only benefit China.

Eventually China is going to say it’s time for you too be assimilated and educated in our “wonderful” camps.

After it makes sure it makes Russia solely dependent on chinas economy.

There was a time in the early 2000s where the idea of Russia integrating into the West was seriously considered on all sides. Barbara Walters asked Putin after 9/11 if he was looking to join NATO and while Putin did not answer that question HE did push himself as a pro-western leader for quite a few years.

That changed in 2014.

When the issue of Crimea came up Putin's advisors were split, the national security guys were in favor of taking Crimea while the business guys were against it. Putin sided with national security guys and went from a pro-west attitude as he was in early 2000 to confrontation with the west.

Russia is neither a house of cards that will collapse when you sneeze at it, as many experts predicted it's economy would implode in 2014 ( it's grown steadily and they have a budget surplus ) or that they would become irrelevant on a global stage, nor is Russia destined to became China's gas stop.

What Russia is ultimately is a great power as it has always been throughout it's entire history: A country that seemingly is lacking in the strength to take on other great powers but always does so, often with great success: See Peter the Great, or Tsar Alexander taking on Napleon ( and the Russian army beating the crap out of the Grand Armee or fighting them at least to a standstill ) or Stalin.

It has severe issues, it's backwards, it's industrial might is a fraction of other countries let alone the entire west but they ALWAYS punch above their weight, and more often then not land a severe blow.

Now I wouldn't recommend living there.

As for Ukraine it's a corrupt shithole that for whatever reason some in the West greatly care about. See here's the thing, every Eastern European country had a choice in the 90s. You could reform, tackle corruption, improve your economy and country and integrate.

Ukraine choose not to unlike Poland, Romania, the Baltics, and no not because of Russia, it choose long before Yanukovych was ever a factor ( not like the guys after him have been better ). Ukraine decided it was fine being a mafia state.

[Yadryonych]

This thread is the single most hilarious thing to happen to genot, I hope Shalcker is really having fun talking to a wall

[Easo]

If you missed it we already are! And nope, not going to stop because you cannot make us do that.

Your opinion literally doesn't matter.

My guess is that they just tested how fast things can get there if shit will hit the fan.
Nothing to do with sanctions that will come regardless of what Russia does - not like there is shortage of reasons, real or made up.

Price increases do happen - and they do matter. Rouble exchange rate has little to do with it though - it hovered between 70 and 80 for last year, just 14% variance.

Yes, low rouble is good for economy in various ways - assuming broader world economy picks up. Which it doesn't seem to be.

It is certainly more complicated then that, but US has their hand in plenty of pies, and denying that is just as silly.

Have fun then, because you are going to be even bigger pariah.
Yep, it does not, same as yours.

Price increases usually have a reason and wild, big swings are NOT good.
Sure, it is better for the average Joe/Ivan? Really? You feeling well? And yes, do not seem to be getting better, what a surprise to... no one.

And again deflection and twisting of what I said. You literally are incapable of understanding "ally".

[Shalcker]

Sanctions are a waste of time, space and money on all sides, everyone pays a price for them. There was a hearing in Congress years ago talking about sanctions and one the things mentioned is that the US asks it's allies to pay an economic price when they do use sanctions.

If sanctions can't take down North Korea or most crucially change it's behavior how in the world do you think they will change anything with Russia: Which is significantly larger and has a growing economy? You can make life a living hell for regular people in Russia but it won't matter. Look at Iran as another example, and again Iran is nowhere near Russia's importance, size or power.

I would argue that sanctions directly undermine democracy as they primarily make life more difficult for those economic stratas that would be interested in defending it - as well as receptive to Western messaging.

As you say below, "business block" that got sidelined for "power block". And what do people suggest here? "More sanctions on business block! Less interdependence! Drop Russia from Western institutions!"

Well, they are basically giving Russia to siloviki on a silver platter. And those guys certainly don't value democracy that much.

Same with Iran - dropping nuclear deal means more hardliners and less moderates.

- - - Updated - - -

Have fun then, because you are going to be even bigger pariah.

Yep, still do. What is it, seven years since 2014? Still having fun!

Prince increases usually have a reason and wild, big swings are NOT good.

Wild big swings of what where? If we're talking about capital markets then there are plenty of hedging instruments available.

Sure, it is better for the average Joe/Ivan? Really? You feeling well? And yes, do not seem to be getting better, what a surprise to... no one.

It would be quite strange if people would do much better after entire year with C19.

And again deflection and twisting of what I said. You literally are incapable of understanding "ally".

"Ally" that clearly allows attempts at "inconvenient" allies like Erdogan.

Sure. That's what Western allies do through the history, after all - backstab and cheat. Like with Poland and Czechoslovakia in WW2.

It differs quite a bit from how Russians see allies, however.

[Yadryonych]

And again deflection and twisting of what I said. You literally are incapable of understanding "ally".

It's funny considering from whom it comes. Of course tribaltics or ukros are blissful in delusion of being "allies" while in fact they are but gnats on a bull's horn.

It differs quite a bit from how Russians see allies, however.

Russia, however sees its allies clear and knows them by their names.

[Vorkreist]

Imo Russia’s biggest mistake is further alienating itself from the west.

Imagine a Russia not ruled by a deranged Stalin cosplayer. A Russia that minds its own territory. A Russia with a functioning democracy.
A Russia that builds stronger economic ties with the west and prospers more.

[Felya]

Nobody is holding Eunuchovich here, he is staying voluntarily. I'd even say, he's happy to stay

Yeah, so... why don’t ya’ll follow extradition and hand his ass over? Is Putin tired of losing to sleepy Joe?

[Yadryonych]

Yeah, so... why don’t ya’ll follow extradition and hand his ass over?

Extradition why? INTERPOL has revoked the warrant due to buffoonish accusations being void and null. Tossing people across the border without warrant is pretty much a human trafficking, it's weird to see you being a human trafficking apologist, I thought you love human rights