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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    regular joe has to work hard to get a fancy car.
    I said care about having one, not actually owning one. Why would they want one? Why would they desire to have one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Also, the game is accessible with the harder difficulties being there if people want to do it. The difference is in FF14, it is pretty much only for bragging rights, transmog, and exclusive mounts.
    As it should be. Prestige modes should give prestige rewards, not power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    SL is as casual friendly as it gets when it comes to progressing your character.
    For about two weeks, then you're forced to quit the game and sub to FFXIV if you want to keep progressing.

  2. #282
    I play a Kyrian priest. I picked that covenant exclusively for the aesthetics and have no intention of switching. I'm currently 8/10 mythic and have KSM. What part of any of that is "against the casual player?"

    You don't need to be in the meta covenant to perform well with a spec. You don't need 226 conduits and sockets on every slot to perform well with a spec. You do need to be a class other than a mage in order to tank or heal, but that's hardly the nefarious Ion's fault. Stop conflating "casual" with "bad at the game" and you probably won't have to clarify that that's not what you mean by the word.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Your right but you are going to be ignored.

    It is easier to just simply learn to distain them and charge them highway robbery prices via carries.

    It is more rewarding to be the villain's they desperately want us to be then trying to help them. Its the helping that enrages them not the spite.
    I believe you

    I don’t think I’ve had a single NW run where the pugs did the hooks right and didn’t complain when I explained the mechanic from normal

    The funniest thing is all the stuff they complain about is their own fault
    They are responsible for the gearing changes and the progression changes

  4. #284
    You know reading this thread really makes me wonder what some people think wow would look like as "casual friendly" cause I doubt any of the posters saying elitism keeping them down would agree on much when it came to specifics.
    Are yall asking for 226 for logging on? completing heroic 5 man content? WQ content?
    Like what metrics would be used to grant these rewards? Would you have to work up to them? if so how long(cause it seems anything that takes more than a month is too grindy)?
    What would keep people logging in once obtaining these rewards?

    The main problem seems to be "casuals" not getting enough power gain cause in regard to cosmetics its never been better with mow many mounts/toys/cosmetics we can get. But, I can't recall a time when a solo player(ie only mm and solo content) had so many ways to get within 30 ilvl of the mythic level raiders across every armor slot especially in such a quick time.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by entrust View Post
    Hi.
    I've been playing casually since some events in my life forced me to not take the game so serious,
    so I've been in some less organized groups who still raid some mythic and with my experience from some competitive gaming I came into some strange conclusions.

    Switching a spec takes only 10 seconds, and there are so many hybrid classes, yet there is no practical way to utilize them,
    if one doesn't spend considerable amount of time and Shadowlands is even less forgiving in that regard since covenants came into the mix,
    and one spec can be vastly superior when using a certain one, while being less than optimal in other,
    so for example a healer spec of some class, can use a different covenant than a dps spec from the same character.

    Switching a covenant can be done once a week, and one has to also do some chores on top of it,
    farming a 235ilvl legend takes approximately 5 weeks. 5250/1140 Soul Ash per week
    there is also farming Stygia, which I wouldn't personally say is that bad in itself, but can be really tiring, if you want to do it on multiple toons.

    Now, I brought the casual player argument because, it seems to me like the ones who really suffer from this IMO stupid design choice,
    are the guilds on the lower end. Someone can't attend a raid and a healer/tank is missing. The guild has many hybrid classes in the group,
    but none are using it, because it is so gimped.
    I've noticed that a lot of players wouldn't mind to switch it here and there, even though they wouldn't want to stay that role full time,
    but there is really little to no incentive to even try it.
    Lower end guilds would benefit from it, even if it was: 'John could you heal today, so we could raid?'
    and I don't think higher end ones would suffer.

    Then there is another design choice that the developers set on, and it seems it will stay this way forever: 2 tanks, mostly 4-5 healers, rest dps.
    Most of these fights for tanks are: switch[taunt] after X amount of stacks, that's it - done; or switch after Y ability.

    I got 2 characters, one is a Monk who can play every role, and 2nd is a Mage who is a beast when it comes to dps. I personally would find it really cool if a certain encounter demanded for example 5 tanks, other one 8-10 healers, another 15 dps with 1 tank, and I would be able to fluidly change my spec on my hybrid class, but I cannot do it, as it's a huge time sink. I already am playing Brew with my friends in M+ and WW on raids, and I'd love to chill on MW sometimes, but it's impossible to imagine.
    Players who cannot fathom not being somewhere around the top of 'Damage Done' dps meter can stay pure dps.

    I doubt it will change the way things are, but I just wanted to see how other players feel about it.

    EDIT: Since so many people miss the point: by casual I don't mean bad, I mean players who don't spend their whole life on the game, and have limited time, but still want to accomplish something more than farming achievements/mounts etc.
    so, say blizzard accommadate you fully, so you can play end game with your 1 hour a week.

    TELL ME

    What do you propose the more dedicated player does then?

    Heres the thing casuals dont seem to understand, they really dont get it, those guys pushing 25/26/27/28 keys? they have played HARRRRRRRRRRD, im talking 16 hours a day hard. what on earth makes you think that you deserve to be doing that too with your 2 hours a week?

    So blizzard accommadates you, allows you to do the 25/26/27/28 keys, what happens with the more dedicated player then? THEY GO HIGHER

    It doesnt matter what blizzard does, if your casual you will always be behind people who put more hours in, unless of course you want the game to only be enough content for your 1hour a week so you can feel stronk and at the top of the game when you login.
    Last edited by odamienskii; 2021-04-24 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    This expansion I joined a casual guild that did normal Nathria for like a month until they had it down and then started heroic but struggled on most bosses after the first two because a big part of the guild were casual players who logged in for the raid and pretty much nothing else. We had 2-3 players with better gear and experience who helped out.

    You can still play the game in the same way people did 15 years ago. Nothing has changed. You're just not playing on the highest difficulty if you aren't putting in effort to really learn the game. Is that such a bad thing? You see all the content, you have your own personal itemlevel progression. You won't be at 220 and pushing to 227 but at 200 and are pushing the 210s.

    The biggest problem with "casual players" (we aren't actually talking about casuals, though. We're talking about bad players. Let's be honest) is that they want the best stuff. They look left and right at the top ilvl stuff with envy and complain. That's the problem but it doesn't have to be a problem. That guild I was in was totally fine with their own personal progression. They had their fun at their own pace
    This. 100% this.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The biggest problem with "casual players" (we aren't actually talking about casuals, though. We're talking about bad players. Let's be honest) is that they want the best stuff. They look left and right at the top ilvl stuff with envy and complain. That's the problem but it doesn't have to be a problem. That guild I was in was totally fine with their own personal progression. They had their fun at their own pace
    this, some people think they need meta clas/spec/covenant/gear/conduits and sockets everywhere, and they underperform by 30% bcs they dont have that, when in fact all that makes5% and rest of their "underperforming" and rest is bcs they are just not that good...

    its like if i try to run 100m on olympics, finish dead last and then complain its bcs i have worse shoes
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-04-24 at 06:36 AM.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by entrust View Post
    Switching a covenant can be done once a week, and one has to also do some chores on top of it,
    farming a 235ilvl legend takes approximately 5 weeks. 5250/1140 Soul Ash per week
    there is also farming Stygia, which I wouldn't personally say is that bad in itself, but can be really tiring, if you want to do it on multiple toons.
    You do realize that you don't need to spend 5 weeks in game to get your 5250 ash? It's literally an hour per week, it can't get more casual friendly than that
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You do realize that you don't need to spend 5 weeks in game to get your 5250 ash? It's literally an hour per week, it can't get more casual friendly than that
    not to mention all ranks have the same effect, only stats are different so lower rank is absolutely fine for casual...

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Because the elitist tryhards are the content creators so Blizzard is now leaning towards catering to them even though it's causing people to leave in droves.
    People were leaving in droves in Cata because heroics were too hard. Then they were leaving in droves in MoP because Lawwwlol Kung Fu Panda's and too many dailies. Then they were all leaving in WoD because Garrisons sucked. Then they all quit in Legion because grinding AP was tedious. Then they all quit in BfA because azerite armor was the worst thing ever. Now they are all quitting Shadowlands because Blizzard caters to streamers.


    People always quit between major patches for <insert random reason here>. They always have and always will. And they always come back because there is no other MMO on the market that is even close to WoW and despite the nonstop bitching, the game is still fun when there is fresh content to play through.

  11. #291
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Literally who? Bellular does nothing but shit on Blizzard 24/7 these days and his entire channel has basically become a fucking waiting room for Asmongold reaction VODs.
    I really laughed out loud at that remark. So true......so true.

  12. #292
    I do not understand. If you do not like raiding, M+ or PvP what exactly are you getting out of the game and what changes would you like to see? As an exclusively world content or single player game WoW must be terrible.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    Are yall asking for 226 for logging on? completing heroic 5 man content? WQ content?
    I'd be happy with a pathway to, say, 213 over a long period on my own. Similar to BfA. Just enough to not feel like a total waste of a slot if I tried to queue for a random BG. Something to keep me engaged and progressing without submitting to the merciless steel jaws of the raiderio machine.
    Last edited by Tadkins; 2021-04-24 at 08:08 AM.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Chriisto View Post
    I do not understand. If you do not like raiding, M+ or PvP what exactly are you getting out of the game and what changes would you like to see? As an exclusively world content or single player game WoW must be terrible.
    I think what many people would love is to just have some weekly capped currency that you get from easy content like heroic dungeons and then be able to buy some high ilvl gear with that currency. That's how WoW has been since TBC and especially WotLK and what these kinds of players are missing now. The problem for them is that the catch up ends at ~200 and not at 213 or higher.
    I can understand that mentality, though. Back in the days you got raid gear for doing nothing or you got normal raid gear while the highest was heroic raid gear. You were very close to ilvl cap with that catch up gear. Nowadays catch up is like 50% weaker than high end gear...

  15. #295
    LFR, LFG, Unrated BGs, World Quests, Weekly Purple Grade Quests, Free upgradeable gear from Covenant Campaign, purchasable legendary gear.

    I'd say it's pretty leaned towards casual players. Why would casuals need the best gear in the game to do any of those activities I mentioned above?

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    LFR, LFG, Unrated BGs, World Quests, Weekly Purple Grade Quests, Free upgradeable gear from Covenant Campaign, purchasable legendary gear.

    I'd say it's pretty leaned towards casual players. Why would casuals need the best gear in the game to do any of those activities I mentioned above?
    Don't need the best gear, but what we're given currently is a joke that only gets us smashed in a random BG or turning on war mode, or forced to leash ourselves to someone who is geared just to survive.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    For about two weeks, then you're forced to quit the game and sub to FFXIV if you want to keep progressing.
    Weird. I am casual and I am still progressing, 5 months in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    not to mention all ranks have the same effect, only stats are different so lower rank is absolutely fine for casual...
    Yeah, I had 210 for ages now, until last week. Not done Torghast in 3 months or so except the Covenant Campaign, but no Ash from that so. Heck, I haven't saved Thrall yet which will give me 200 Soul Ash

    Got last 1000 Soul Ash from missions the last 4-5 weeks and upgraded my bis leggo to 225. Now thats casual for you.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2021-04-24 at 12:26 PM.

  18. #298
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Weird. I am casual and I am still progressing, 5 months in.

    Out of curiosity do you have aotc, ksm or whatever the 2200 pvp rating achievement is combatant i think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by javierdsv View Post
    LFR, LFG, Unrated BGs, World Quests, Weekly Purple Grade Quests, Free upgradeable gear from Covenant Campaign, purchasable legendary gear.

    I'd say it's pretty leaned towards casual players. Why would casuals need the best gear in the game to do any of those activities I mentioned above?
    So I noticed reading the raid testing notes from the ptr that whenever you go into a raid on the ptr your gear is scaled to an appropriate level. This means they could very well simple scale your character to whatever challenge and eliminate the need for loot. Entirely. Do you think this would be a rewarding experience? If your answer is no then you can fuck off telling people they don't need better loot.

    Its not leaned toward actual casual players, its leaned towards try hards who bitched and moaned and pissed about being "forced" to do "other" content.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Out of curiosity do you have aotc, ksm or whatever the 2200 pvp rating achievement is combatant i think?
    Now I am curious. Is 2200 rating the new rank for casuals? Do you need to be 2200 rating to define yourself as casual? I do have AotC yes, I also got KSM(in legion hoho) I got 1809 in BfA, 4 hours a week or so with arena. Does it help?

    Wait, is this a trick question? If I have AotC, I am not casual?

  20. #300
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post

    Wait, is this a trick question? If I have AotC, I am not casual?
    Bingo thanks for playing
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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