Why is end game tailored so much against the casual player?

[Doffen]

Bingo thanks for playing

Noooooooooo.

Well played sir.

So now AotC is hardcore. Thats a new.

[Glorious Leader]

Noooooooooo.

Well played sir.

So now AotC is hardcore. Thats a new.

My pleasure. You've also got the additional ksm achieve which is a double score. Welcome to hardcore land. Actually i should have also asked do you have or are you progressing on cutting edge?

[Doffen]

My pleasure. You've also got the additional ksm achieve which is a double score. Welcome to hardcore land. Actually i should have also asked do you have or are you progressing on cutting edge?

No, but I am performing well in LFR.

[Glorious Leader]

No, but I am performing well in LFR.

I'm sure you go to all your meetings in haiwaiin shirts. SUPER CAJ.

[Doffen]

I'm sure you go to all your meetings in haiwaiin shirts. SUPER CAJ.

I had one. But I lost it. Unfortunate.

I do like casual streetwear though. So thats a big plus! Surely that covers me as caj in WoW?

[Glorious Leader]

I had one. But I lost it. Unfortunate.

I do like casual streetwear though. So thats a big plus! Surely that covers me as caj in WoW?

Unfortunately buddy I checked with the ruling casual council and they've got an express ban on anybody with 3 or more knocks against them. You post on a forum as well I should add. Thats usually a disqualifier immediately.

[rrayy]

Can't say ive had the same experience. I've waltz into a guild I picked at random flashed them my logs got invited and raided the same night. I have no idea what a trial is but its not really needed if you perform. Something tells me those "elitist's" are simply people with standards.

By standards you mean "Bodies who can fill slots to funnel gear to the RL and his buddies". That is what trials are used for.

[Soon-TM]

It is all well and good when you have awesome logs or something similarly cool to show off, but not everyone's going to. What is a player like me who isn't the best supposed to do to get into a raiding guild? Not even a mythic one, but a normal/heroic one.

While I largely sympathise with your plight, getting into a more casual, relaxed-minded guild that just runs normal/HC shouldn't be much of an issue. In my experience, they barely, if ever, ask for logs, so you will do just fine as long as you can move your ass out of the fire.

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Also, the game is accessible with the harder difficulties being there if people want to do it. The difference is in FF14, it is pretty much only for bragging rights, transmog, and exclusive mounts.

For what I've seen, devs in FF14 think about casual players first and foremost, while also throwing a bone to the hardcore crowd. WoW's ones do exactly the opposite.

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By standards you mean "Bodies who can fill slots to funnel gear to the RL and his buddies". That is what trials are used for.

I seldom agree with this dude/dudette, but this is dead right.

[Echocho]

Noooooooooo.

Well played sir.

So now AotC is hardcore. Thats a new.

As soon as you're starting to do organized content you're no longer playing the game casually.

Casual has nothing to do with time spent, it has more to do with commitment, organization and responsibilities.

Like if you're seeing a girl casually it's unlikely that you'll meet her parents and go on vacations together.

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For what I've seen, devs in FF14 think about casual players first and foremost, while also throwing a bone to the hardcore crowd. WoW's ones do exactly the opposite.

The difference is the size of the bone. The FFXIV devs throws a pretty large bone to the hardcore players while the WoW devs throw a splinter of a bone to the casuals.

[rhorle]

As soon as you're starting to do organized content you're no longer playing the game casually. Casual has nothing to do with time spent, it has more to do with commitment, organization and responsibilities. Like if you're seeing a girl casually it's unlikely that you'll meet her parents and go on vacations together.

The problem is there is no one universal definition for Casual and Hardcore. It all depends on how the player sees their activities in-game. Your definition is different then the person you quoted. Both can be right and both can be wrong at the same time. You can casually play organized or difficult content. Skilled players don't need to do a lot in order to tackle stuff and if you aren't in a world 1st type of guild you rarely need to spend every last second to prepare for the content to get all of those little edges.

[SirCowdog]

Because the devs are stuck in an old mindset and unfortunantly refuse to change.

Because it's easier to copy/paste a formula that caters to an existing, entrenched, addicted fanbase than risk innovation.

[T-34]

For what I've seen, devs in FF14 think about casual players first and foremost, while also throwing a bone to the hardcore crowd. WoW's ones do exactly the opposite.

FF14 is game that focuses on the experience for non-competitive people that to a great extent don't like co-operative gameplay in player created groups, whereas WoW focuses more on content for competitive people that like co-operative gameplay in player created groups.
A clear indicator on how FF14 focuses on non-competitive players and actively encourages harassment of competitive players is that players are encouraged to snitch on players that use dps-meters to measure performance.

It is probably not a coincidence that FF14 and WoW are clearly very different, not only in the aspect of competitiveness and social interaction, but also in art-style, story, skill-interaction and so forth.
Each of those 2 games, while both MMOs, appeal to very distinct player-groups.

[rhorle]

Because it's easier to copy/paste a formula that caters to an existing, entrenched, addicted fanbase than risk innovation.

It has nothing to do with an entrenched or addicted fanbase. Innovation or reinventing the wheel carries risks for any existing product. So lets leave the insults out of it.

[Crimson Spears]

By standards you mean "Bodies who can fill slots to funnel gear to the RL and his buddies". That is what trials are used for.

I've never seen this be the case and I struggle to imagine how a raid ran that way would be stable enough to last beyond a week maybe two...

I get a lot of people in this thread or so socially crippled that the idea of learning the rules of a group oriented game is utterly foreign to them but I assure you the heroic guilds are not throwing up these absurd walls... they have no way to even enforce them.

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The problem is there is no one universal definition for Casual and Hardcore. It all depends on how the player sees their activities in-game. Your definition is different then the person you quoted. Both can be right and both can be wrong at the same time. You can casually play organized or difficult content. Skilled players don't need to do a lot in order to tackle stuff and if you aren't in a world 1st type of guild you rarely need to spend every last second to prepare for the content to get all of those little edges.

I mean we have the dictionary definition.

This forum created its own definition because terrible players get really triggered when you point out their failings are their own fault that isn't the same as having two forms of casual.

[rhorle]

I mean we have the dictionary definition. This forum created its own definition because terrible players get really triggered when you point out their failings are their own fault that isn't the same as having two forms of casual.

The dictionary definition doesn't translate to how gaming uses it for the reason I stated earlier. Everyone has a different definition of what casually playing a game means and isn't something that this forum created. It has nothing to do with terrible players but just different people finding different types of game play casual. There is no reason to be insulting and toxic.

[Crimson Spears]

The dictionary definition doesn't translate to how gaming uses it for the reason I stated earlier. Everyone has a different definition of what casually playing a game means and isn't something that this forum created. It has nothing to do with terrible players but just different people finding different types of game play casual. There is no reason to be insulting and toxic.

It does its just people dislike it because they use the word "casual" as a paper shield.
The second a fool tries to redefine a word deny him it. When he is forced to use the proper language his demands require usually they are so utterly ridiculous that even the fool speaking admits to them being nonsense.

They are asking for an entire genre of game to be destroyed to fuel their ego at a game they are terrible at. Now is EXACTLY the time to be insulting and toxic. Much like how white blood cells are toxic to an infection.

[rhorle]

It does its just people dislike it because they use the word "casual" as a paper shield.
The second a fool tries to redefine a word deny him it. When he is forced to use the proper language his demands require usually they are so utterly ridiculous that even the fool speaking admits to them being nonsense.

Relaxed and unconcerned or not regular or permanent is not the only ways that gaming uses the word casual. It has nothing to do with being used as a paper shield, or being a fool. It has to do with how the word is used by the people using it. And there are a lot of different definitions for casual in the gaming community. There is never a time to be insulting or toxic because you can easily convey your point with out doing so. Well maybe you can't but you should be able to.

[Crimson Spears]

Relaxed and unconcerned or not regular or permanent is not the only ways that gaming uses the word casual. It has nothing to do with being used as a paper shield, or being a fool. It has to do with how the word is used by the people using it. And there are a lot of different definitions for casual in the gaming community. There is never a time to be insulting or toxic because you can easily convey your point with out doing so. Well maybe you can't but you should be able to.

It is how the industry uses it go and search casual games and see how many don't fit the dictionary definition. I make my point quite eloquently I just don't allow myself to suffer fools eagerly.

Look at what it is they are asking for. I refuse to believe you can't see how conceding to anything they want wouldn't actively harm the game. Look at what the current set of concessions have bought us. " I want to progress without getting better or learning!" AP is born and has become a massive blight to players for multiple expansions as grinding mindless content became the norm and the idea of constantly being behind because someone poopsocked from the first week isn't appealing.

Never mind the mess of conduits and soul ash coming from mindless chore content. Catering to this group has never had positive changes brought to the game. If you know of any I implore you to share them.

[rhorle]

It is how the industry uses it go and search casual games and see how many don't fit the dictionary definition.

So if you know the industry doesn't use the dictionary definition why did you make a post saying that the dictionary definition is the one that should be used? You don't make your point eloquently because you aren't making a point at all here. You are just going off on a tangent about a definition and contradicting yourself and being toxic for no reason at all.

There is no "they" here. There is no collective of casual players all asking for the same thing. There is no possible way to cater to "this group" because there is no one set group of casual players. Stop trying to peg everyone you dislike into one group just so you can demean and insult them. If you are going to do that then call them Bad Players which is far more accurate then the casual label.

[Crimson Spears]

So if you know the industry doesn't use the dictionary definition why did you make a post saying that the dictionary definition is the one that should be used? You don't make your point eloquently because you aren't making a point at all here. You are just going off on a tangent about a definition and contradicting yourself and being toxic for no reason at all.

There is no "they" here. There is no collective of casual players all asking for the same thing. There is no possible way to cater to "this group" because there is no one set group of casual players. Stop trying to peg everyone you dislike into one group just so you can demean and insult them. If you are going to do that then call them Bad Players which is far more accurate then the casual label.

The industry does use the definition its only here and maybe the wow forums they don't. No where else does a massive time commitment or begging for systems that add hours and hours of game play get you labeled a casual.

There is a clear group begging for the game to make their numbers bigger without any desire to actually invest in said game enough to learn how to play it. You can see them in this thread. I am not going to give you bonus points for pretending to be obtuse.

I've no reservations on calling them bad players hell one of them seems to actively boast that they are unable to learn the game and are so emotionally stunted they can't even effectively communicate with people. I have zero idea what draws him to the mmo genre but if the genre changed to somehow cater to him it would destroy itself.

I also don't get your drive to try and tone police the conversation lets simply speak freely.