Blizzard has annoyed a large portion of the playerbase FACT

[Tumile]

I can not believe I actually read that. My head hurt from all the wrong information.

Also join a guild. Clearly you are not good enough without one if you get declined. They most likely saw you IO.

I see a lot of the classes you said are bad do high keys 19+ easily and without issue.

Tetris might be more your speed.

what information was wrong? Granted he didnt exactly articulate himself very well, but none of it seems to be wrong?

[odamienskii]

i get declined maybe 1/10 groups i apply to...

because the level is piss poor low / free and it doesnt matter.................

as you go up the levels that number will increase to the point where you will be in the same situation i was in december where your just behind the top level but cant go anyhigher because "sorry need pala for the dps of ashen"

[odamienskii]

you're not playing in pugs if you use ashen... it's almost impossible to use it in pugs... i played venthyr on my paladin at first but gave up on it because it just sucks for pugs and went kyrian instead...

holy priest is in just as bad a spot as resto druid at least world 1 holy priest has a couple of 25s timed only 2 behind world 1 pala but world 20 is WAYYY behind having only done 22s and world 40 21s. can put that down to the misbalance of players not playing holy priest due to....it not being meta....

[odamienskii]

it's not due to not being meta... holy priests start getting one shot by mechanics in higher keys that other healers, like a paladin, can survive with damage mitigation cds or immunities... this was a problem in bfa too...

So you agree, just argueing for the fun of it?

there is probly ways unthought of yet, like running a tank shield trinket, like iskars in legion. but the thing is, why bother? your not going to get the chance to prove your theory works anyway because nobody is going to take you because like you said.....priest gets 1 shot above a certain level so everyone worth there salt is just going to decline you due to no reason other than....class.

HENCE MY POINT.

[Darkimpact]

Post is an uninterrupted stream of mental thought vomited onto a page. Yes, things are a mixed bag at the moment and many are upset. Everyone is aware.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

no... what the fuck...

you said...



which is just wrong... people are not playing holy priests because they have issues surviving in higher keys where other healers will survive... this is not due to them not being meta... even if they were meta this problem would still exist...

And that's a prime example why Holy Priests are not considered meta in higher keys.


You are making the point he is making.

Post is an uninterrupted stream of mental thought vomited onto a page. Yes, things are a mixed bag at the moment and many are upset. Everyone is aware.

All of these threads are a downward slope of opinion versus opinion, with ammunition being anecdotal experience. 3 more pages before it gets closed.

[odamienskii]

no... what the fuck...

you said...



which is just wrong... people are not playing holy priests because they have issues surviving in higher keys where other healers will survive... this is not due to them not being meta... even if they were meta this problem would still exist...

You just told me that its not because of meta, you then went on to say how priest cannot go higher because pala can survive......................

dude, you do realise that the reason a class is meta is down to survival aswell as dps right? there is also the aspect of control.

the reason holy priest is not meta in your words is because they cannot survive.

if they could survive, they would be more meta than they are. hence my entire point, class misbalance makes priest unviable for 25+ keys.

you agreed with me, but in your arguementative mind you wasnt even aware of it id say because you dont understand what makes a class meta/not

[odamienskii]

Post is an uninterrupted stream of mental thought vomited onto a page. Yes, things are a mixed bag at the moment and many are upset. Everyone is aware.

brilliant, love the analogy. and agree!

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you were arguing that dps being the reason holy priests aren't taken to that high keys...

you dont seem to understand so here let me break it down for you what it takes for a class to be meta:

throughput
survival
control

those 3 things are what makes a class meta. added together as an overall power whichever is the most useful becomes meta for the role.

you seem to be under the illusion that its only dps that makes a class meta. the most important element is easily survival hence why ret paladins barely existed in bfa, there stat priority was mastery which did nothing for survival.

[arr0gance]

"There is poor class representation in the top 1% of the top 1% of the game. I'm here to inform this forum of fellow 1%ers that this is unacceptable and the time for change is now!"

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[Tumile]

it is inevitable that they are gonna piss some people off, for example, Im a big fan of playing every part of the game, I also believe that players should be rewarded for it. that means a player who does Mythic raiding, M+, and high ranked PVP should have a gear advantage of some sort. not in the power of the items obtained, but in the speed of which you obtain them. Why? because you need completely different items for different content. Compare the weekly ilvl 226 item you get in the vault to someone who ONLY pvp's or ONLY raids, he gets to choose 1 out of 16 items that he needs every week, meanwhile if he does both Raiding, and PVP all of a sudden he needs ~32 items. obviously those numbers are made up to try and prove a point, depends on class and content.

I think people cried way too hard about the PVP gear, for the most part its not particularly useful for the majority of classes due to the stats available, so it comes down to Weapons / trinkets mostly, of which you can get a 233 weapon from PVP faster than most people will kill Sire Mythic, but honestly, if u removed RBG's from the equation, the difficulty it takes for most classes except a few (looking at you warriors and pally bois) make it reasonable fair imo, the other change i would have liked to see, is not being able to get weapons from the vault. watching some people RNG into a 233 weapon before even being able to set foot inside the Mythic raid was pretty cringe.

Looking at my own alt resto shaman that I had to gear, I chose to gear it through pvp, got full 226, and then I had to go and do dungeons, after the valor patch, to get 220 items, simply because the insane amount of Vers wasnt worth it, even if the item was 6 ilvl's higher. thats on a class that actually likes vers.. but casuals will always cry about stuff they don't have a clue about. just look at most of the replies on this thread. Imagine not thinking that shadow lands has MASSIVE balance issues on every level of gameplay.

this thread is like reading every wow forum crying about rogues, meanwhile literally any top end player is sitting there laughing at how bad they are, even pre-nerf we had Dilly sitting there having to explain to his chat that was crying about the 3x sub rogues running amok on the EU ladder, that the issue has nothing to do with the rogue class, but to do with stupid and bugged abilities and trinkets, such as Shadowy Duel. to paraphrase "If any 3 dps classes were allowed to wail on a healer for 6 seconds, he would obviously die".

the balance in Arena is the biggest joke it has ever been, it is quite literally as bad as BFA corruptions, which is quite impressive.

The balance for M+ is also just about the worst it has ever been, and thats including Legion where holy paladins were also undiputed kings of key pushing. but atleast it was only for top end pushing. they werent the kings of damage, so for speed clearing slightly lower keys ( 24-26 ) there were better choices, like resto shamans single target DPS being only slightly behind the average DPS specc. meaning they were amazing for killing bosses, and considering the low level of the key, they could keep up with the healing, and bringing utility.

Tank wise the its as bad as legion DK's with Demon hunters simply being insanely dominant.

Healing wise its somehow managed to get worse, with Hpallies in Shadow lands being the best at literally everything, and also just happends to actually want to play one of the covenants that the other meta classes do not.

DPS wise its hard to say, the 3rd spot is definitely seeing more variety than ever before, but the iron grip that hunter/mage has atm is about as insane as Outlaw rogues in BFA Season 2.

I went into the expansion playing a Rogue. I genuinly like Sub, even if it isnt the best it has ever been to play, its still pretty damn good. and its insanely fun in PVP. Sadly after getting 2.4k and getting to the harder bosses in Castle nathria, i havent really logged into my rogue since. all I wanted was to play the game, but my character choice made it really damn hard, with insanely bad M+ performance unless your group caters to you, and understands the change in routes when playing with a Rogue, which eventually got better a little later on with other classes getting nerfed, its still a sub-par pick but atleast we exist in the meta, unlike many others. my class was fun to play in PVP, but I was forced to play RMP if I wanted to push higher, a comp I'm not particularly fond of. any high rated pvper can imagine how much me and my hunter partner was laughing at back peddling warrior / hpally combos in 2's, outplaying them left right and center, watching them fall for a Shadow step Ledge baits 4 or even 5 times in one arena, and still end up losing. no matter how fun the class is, that eventually wears you out.

There was no space for my rogue that made sense, not only were we the worst DPS specc in the game, but our damage pattern was also god fucking awful with 0 burst. I still remember looking at our Darkvein logs, watching my highest DPS spike on the opener be 18k, meanwhile our ret paladins and boomkins were spiking anywhere between 30-60k, while bringing a butt load of utility for the raid, and higher overall damage.

If i was really attached to my rogues raid spot, im absolutely sure I could have it, but it just made more sense to play other classes and alts, with worse gear, and less experience, since the gap in power was just that astronomically huge.

*PS* I agree with the OP, I do not like to be a burden to my friends, so the whole just find a guild, or get some friends argument is so freaking weak. even if they were content with basically carrying me because of my class choice, I wouldn't be.

Overall ive liked the gameplay of Shadow lands, but the content has been lackluster, covenants are the worst, and the extreme balance issues has turned me into a raid logger for the first time in 15 years.

[MatthewOU2015]

I'm impressed that no one has been able to counter any of the OP's facts.

Too busy raging at OP for talking badly about the game

[dope_danny]

I mean to be fair when in the last ten years hasn't Blizzard pissed off a large amount of players? its getting mad at the sun coming up each morning at this point.

[Garymorilix]

where you gone? heres some more.

RESTO DRUID:
world 1: x2 24s in time
world 2: no 24s
world 20: x1 23, rest 22 or below
world 40: x2 22, rest 21 or below.

this is where i look when im seeing whats happening in the game and if its worth trying to push, world 40... then you look at paladin.

Paladin
world 1: x1 27 (3 above rdruid)
world 2: x1 27 (4 above rdruid)
world 20: x1 26 (3 above rdruid)
world 40: 24s (mainly 3 above rdruid)

why the hell would i try and push on my rdruid when paladin is 3 levels above? what you thinks gonna happen if i sign for a 24 key when only one rdruid in THE WORLD has completed ONE 24 key in time? DECLINE

the reason i quit in december was there was a massive gap opening up between shaman and paladin when i was doing 15s before christmas trying to get in 16s people were asking for shaman/paladin because they were facerolling 17s/18s and strongly contributing to in time at higher keys due to dps which druid was weak as hell >>>>>>>>>IN COMPARISON<<<<<<<<<< i dont make stuff up, im not a pretender that just makes up numbers, i actually do research.

It's so cute.

Did you make this same thread in BfA when all healers were resto druids?
I bet you didn't.

Newsflash kiddo: classes are not 1-1 balanced for 24+ keys.
I know, it's hard to believe.

[odamienskii]

it is inevitable that they are gonna piss some people off, for example, Im a big fan of playing every part of the game, I also believe that players should be rewarded for it. that means a player who does Mythic raiding, M+, and high ranked PVP should have a gear advantage of some sort. not in the power of the items obtained, but in the speed of which you obtain them. Why? because you need completely different items for different content. Compare the weekly ilvl 226 item you get in the vault to someone who ONLY pvp's or ONLY raids, he gets to choose 1 out of 16 items that he needs every week, meanwhile if he does both Raiding, and PVP all of a sudden he needs ~32 items. obviously those numbers are made up to try and prove a point, depends on class and content.

I think people cried way too hard about the PVP gear, for the most part its not particularly useful for the majority of classes due to the stats available, so it comes down to Weapons / trinkets mostly, of which you can get a 233 weapon from PVP faster than most people will kill Sire Mythic, but honestly, if u removed RBG's from the equation, the difficulty it takes for most classes except a few (looking at you warriors and pally bois) make it reasonable fair imo, the other change i would have liked to see, is not being able to get weapons from the vault. watching some people RNG into a 233 weapon before even being able to set foot inside the Mythic raid was pretty cringe.

Looking at my own alt resto shaman that I had to gear, I chose to gear it through pvp, got full 226, and then I had to go and do dungeons, after the valor patch, to get 220 items, simply because the insane amount of Vers wasnt worth it, even if the item was 6 ilvl's higher. thats on a class that actually likes vers.. but casuals will always cry about stuff they don't have a clue about. just look at most of the replies on this thread. Imagine not thinking that shadow lands has MASSIVE balance issues on every level of gameplay.

this thread is like reading every wow forum crying about rogues, meanwhile literally any top end player is sitting there laughing at how bad they are, even pre-nerf we had Dilly sitting there having to explain to his chat that was crying about the 3x sub rogues running amok on the EU ladder, that the issue has nothing to do with the rogue class, but to do with stupid and bugged abilities and trinkets, such as Shadowy Duel. to paraphrase "If any 3 dps classes were allowed to wail on a healer for 6 seconds, he would obviously die".

the balance in Arena is the biggest joke it has ever been, it is quite literally as bad as BFA corruptions, which is quite impressive.

The balance for M+ is also just about the worst it has ever been, and thats including Legion where holy paladins were also undiputed kings of key pushing. but atleast it was only for top end pushing. they werent the kings of damage, so for speed clearing slightly lower keys ( 24-26 ) there were better choices, like resto shamans single target DPS being only slightly behind the average DPS specc. meaning they were amazing for killing bosses, and considering the low level of the key, they could keep up with the healing, and bringing utility.

Tank wise the its as bad as legion DK's with Demon hunters simply being insanely dominant.

Healing wise its somehow managed to get worse, with Hpallies in Shadow lands being the best at literally everything, and also just happends to actually want to play one of the covenants that the other meta classes do not.

DPS wise its hard to say, the 3rd spot is definitely seeing more variety than ever before, but the iron grip that hunter/mage has atm is about as insane as Outlaw rogues in BFA Season 2.

I went into the expansion playing a Rogue. I genuinly like Sub, even if it isnt the best it has ever been to play, its still pretty damn good. and its insanely fun in PVP. Sadly after getting 2.4k and getting to the harder bosses in Castle nathria, i havent really logged into my rogue since. all I wanted was to play the game, but my character choice made it really damn hard, with insanely bad M+ performance unless your group caters to you, and understands the change in routes when playing with a Rogue, which eventually got better a little later on with other classes getting nerfed, its still a sub-par pick but atleast we exist in the meta, unlike many others. my class was fun to play in PVP, but I was forced to play RMP if I wanted to push higher, a comp I'm not particularly fond of. any high rated pvper can imagine how much me and my hunter partner was laughing at back peddling warrior / hpally combos in 2's, outplaying them left right and center, watching them fall for a Shadow step Ledge baits 4 or even 5 times in one arena, and still end up losing. no matter how fun the class is, that eventually wears you out.

There was no space for my rogue that made sense, not only were we the worst DPS specc in the game, but our damage pattern was also god fucking awful with 0 burst. I still remember looking at our Darkvein logs, watching my highest DPS spike on the opener be 18k, meanwhile our ret paladins and boomkins were spiking anywhere between 30-60k, while bringing a butt load of utility for the raid, and higher overall damage.

If i was really attached to my rogues raid spot, im absolutely sure I could have it, but it just made more sense to play other classes and alts, with worse gear, and less experience, since the gap in power was just that astronomically huge.

*PS* I agree with the OP, I do not like to be a burden to my friends, so the whole just find a guild, or get some friends argument is so freaking weak. even if they were content with basically carrying me because of my class choice, I wouldn't be.

Overall ive liked the gameplay of Shadow lands, but the content has been lackluster, covenants are the worst, and the extreme balance issues has turned me into a raid logger for the first time in 15 years.

this is pretty much everything i was trying to say but it came out as mental vomit as someone said, you do it so much better, thanks!

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It's so cute.

Did you make this same thread in BfA when all healers were resto druids?
I bet you didn't.

Newsflash kiddo: classes are not 1-1 balanced for 24+ keys.
I know, it's hard to believe.

heres my issue:

non meta class 2k rio
retardedly meta class 2k rio

who is the better player?
who gets the invite?

[Golden]

From a psychological perspective, it seems like a lot of MMOs follow a warrior's philosophy in game design where strong people have the right to prey on weak people, and if weak people don't like it, they should get stronger. However, that philosophy is very similar and compatible to another philosophy...the bully philosophy.

The bully philosophy is where people raise themselves up by putting weaker people around them down, thereby gaining self-esteem. The end result is a game that attracts and caters to cyber-bullies. That's why I find it so amusing that elitist people always find some scapegoat to blame for why the communities in these games are so bad. You can see a lot of these philosophies at work just reading this thread.

[Garymorilix]

this is pretty much everything i was trying to say but it came out as mental vomit as someone said, you do it so much better, thanks!

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heres my issue:

non meta class 2k rio
retardedly meta class 2k rio

who is the better player?
who gets the invite?

Whoever the group leader picks. What a shocker.

Why would you imply that you are "better" with an off-meta spec?
In fact, you are talking about the top of the top of gameplay and you are actively gimping yourself.
That's not what pro's call "better".

[odamienskii]

From a psychological perspective, it seems like a lot of MMOs follow a warrior's philosophy in game design where strong people have the right to prey on weak people, and if weak people don't like it, they should get stronger. However, that philosophy is very similar and compatible to another philosophy...the bully philosophy.

The bully philosophy is where people raise themselves up by putting weaker people around them down, thereby gaining self-esteem. The end result is a game that attracts and caters to cyber-bullies. That's why I find it so amusing that elitist people always find some scapegoat to blame for why the communities in these games are so bad. You can see a lot of these philosophies at work just reading this thread.

i get what your saying but its different with wow due to the fact that the "bullies" actually need the weaker ppl to do a job to be able to progress otherwise the bully is having there time wasted.

personally i feel guilty if i lose my crap, it sets of a chain of thought where lash out > feel bad > hate the game for allowing these players to be shoehorned into the same content im trying to progress in, at no point do i hate the weak player, i hate the game, there is no distinction due to class balance and free gearing the only real way you can truly get ahead now is through either persistance with "weaker" where you have to have tolerence to having your time repeatidly wasted otherwise your toxic/a bully. or get lucky with a premade of bullies.

thats another topic entirely though tbh

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Why would you imply that you are "better" with an off-meta spec?.

i didnt, you knew what i was saying though, didnt you

[Halfaheart]

"The MMO I'm playing doesnt cater to me so heres an inaccurate list of why it's bad"

Funny thing is you'll write this hate rant and still subscribe next month.

Some of you just can't let go. It's unhealthy.

[odamienskii]

... you said...





you were arguing it's about the dps...

no it wasnt that, your taking comments from earlier in the thread. i said about priest not being meta, you then mentioned lack of survival as a counter arguement?

[Garymorilix]

i get what your saying but its different with wow due to the fact that the "bullies" actually need the weaker ppl to do a job to be able to progress otherwise the bully is having there time wasted.

personally i feel guilty if i lose my crap, it sets of a chain of thought where lash out > feel bad > hate the game for allowing these players to be shoehorned into the same content im trying to progress in, at no point do i hate the weak player, i hate the game, there is no distinction due to class balance and free gearing the only real way you can truly get ahead now is through either persistance with "weaker" where you have to have tolerence otherwise your toxic/a bully. or get lucky with a premade of bullies.

thats another topic entirely though tbh

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i didnt, you knew what i was saying though, didnt you

So you say that you are "better" even tho in your example both of you have 2k rio.
Then you wonder why the meta gets picked instead on average?

Have you been playing WoW for the past 16 years?