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  1. #121
    "chronicles the epic, definitive story of the legendary Sylvanas Windrunner."

    chronicles the epic retconning of the story of sylvanus into the complete mess that it has long since become.

    It's telling sylvanus needs a whole book to go through her past, cause even blizzard know how much of a mess sylvanus's story has turned into from all the changes/retcons in the past few expansions. Basically, terrible writing from Danuser and his team who took a liked character and ruined her by forcing her into the spotlight, constantly changing stuff about her, then overusing her poorly.

    so ya, I expect no different in this book, where we'll probably see yet more retcon/changes to her past, e.g. fit the jailer in her story, that she had the 9D plan all along, that she totally cared about the forsaken, her actions will be justified using brain-dead logic, probably some retcons to make her past most tragic, anduin/lirath and so on.

    also LOL at them doing another book, meaning none of this stuff will ever be reflected or shown in-game, i.e. most players will never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    So lads what are your cringe expectations for new book? Here are few of mine:

    - Sylvanas will admit that calia will be better/great leader of forsaken.
    oh god, I can so easily see this happening with how determined danuser is in pushing Calia as the "forsaken saviour" :/

    doing things like:

    - making it like only she can guide the forsaken (alonsus who?)
    - "helping/guiding" the forsaken (despite her being literal 180 of the forsaken from looks to power, never experienced undeath or curse of undeath, has no experience of the pain/rejection the forsaken felt)
    - she is somehow able to help the undead kaldorei (despite knowing nothing about night elves)
    - how she's just immediately trusted and in on the horde council meetings (despite knowing nothing about leadership and not being horde race/character)
    - potential forsaken following her just cause she's their "queen" (lordaeron long since gone, she ran away from lordaeron and is queen only cause of her surname)

    and so on -_-
    Last edited by voidox; 2021-04-24 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    It will be retconned in a couple patches, just like how Sylvanas' motivations in Before the Storm were then immediately retconned in 8.2 and Shadowlands.
    It was already retconned by 8.0. It was simply retconned again later on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Christie Golden is the best writer this franchise still has but not even she can salvage this crap given to her. Pass.
    Someone who can't do the most basic research into what they are writing about is the best writer this franchise has ever seen? Damn, that's a really depressing picture of Warcraft story you're painting here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Not her choice; if the higher ups say "nah, Garrosh is hitler now", she has no choice but to write him that way. We know that this has happened before, given how Garrosh was presented as a good guy in Stonetalon Mountains... and then a few patches later he's bombing cities and going fullblown evil.
    While Garrosh in Stonetalon was a fuckup it's for a completely different reason. It was caused by Afrasiabi and Kosak failing to communicate as to the direction for the character, because any and all standards are alien to Blizzard


    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The Before the Storm novel had her genuinely caring for the Horde want to capture Teldrassil and then use it to bargain with the Alliance... but the book never explained why she just flipped and burned over temper tantrum like she did in the Warbringers cinematic. And then 8.2 and threw that out the window with her saying in the cinematic "muahaha I never cared about the Horde" and then flying off, and then Shadowlands hits and she's suddenly "everything I did was for death all along"...
    While I don't disagree with what you're saying here in general (though the idea that BtS Sylvanas was retconned only in 8.2 is wrong, but I already addressed it in the first paragraph), can the "Sylvanas burned the tree in a tantrum" meme die, already? This is beyond false in context of both the cinematic and A Good War. The height of emotions expressed by Sylvanas was smugness. She was calm when talking with Delaryn. And as A Good War showed, she was thinking as to how to salvage Saurfang fucking up the goal of campaign before she even noticed Delaryn, with the choice to burn the tree and her reasoning for that being consistent with what she was thinking about at the time. Delaryn at best gave her a nudge towards that specific idea, but the claim that Sylvanas burned the tree just to spite Delaryn in a tantrum is simply bogus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Problem is that Warcraft hasn't been mainstream for a long time. Normies browsing Barnes and Noble and see the book and buy it. The only group of people Blizzard has any hope of selling copies to are hardcore Warcraft story fans... and overall the vast majority of Warcraft fans dislike Sylvanas.

    Certain people here on MMO-C like to rag on Anduin, but the reality is that he is far and away the most popular character who is alive and active in the story right now. It'd be almost certainly more profitable to make a book about him.
    Which is why Blizzard uses Sylvanas the most for marketing purposes right now...
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  3. #123
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    fingers crossed that better be Arator; though it's like Sylvanas and him don't even know each other
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    So lads what are your cringe expectations for new book? Here are few of mine:

    - Sylvanas will admit that calia will be better/great leader of forsaken.
    - Anduin will at some point see himself in sylvanas/have "I could be like her without my friends" moment.
    - There will be new young, "likeable" and "relatable" female character that dies for us to feel sorry (Christie loves that one)
    - At least 50% of book will be horribly off topic, covering shit that has nothing to do with sylvanas.
    - Sylvanas goes full Leto II in her attempts to justify her actions via mental acrobatics that will take at least 50 pages.
    I agree on most points, but as for the bolded part, not so much. Leto II had a decent, if somewhat short, build-up: he was Paul Atreides' son and little else, at the beginning.

    Sure, he featured prominently in Children of Dune, and especially in God Emperor of Dune, but Herbert was smart enough to avoid the trite "bad guy who tries to convince himself that he's actually good" trope. No, the narrative depicts him as an actually morally grey character, who can be quite wicked at times, but always in the name of his Golden Path. Which in turn isn't a nebulous concept, rather the opposite: we have glimpses of it in CoD, when Leto is just developing the idea, it is greatly elaborated on GEoD, and the aftermath can be seen in detail in Heretics of Dune and especially in Dune: Chapterhouse.

    And Leto himself isn't an emo boi who undergoes four drastic changes of mind in as many years, but rather a guy with a very clear purpose (which btw isn't OMG MOAR POWAH), so he is quite nasty towards anyone or anything that gets in his way. I can't recall him desperately trying to explain his actions to anyone - least of all himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuli View Post
    lmao because when you rush it you have the time to write a whole book in-between, right?
    Shadowlands has more literature surrounding it than every expansion before and that is awesome!
    Depends on how you look at it. I'd prefer if the story was told ingame rather than having to buy a book. It feels disjointed.

  6. #126
    Wait, Sylvanas cares about Lirath now? I thought his death only affected Alleria. Sylvanas has never even mentioned Lirath in the past, if I remember correctly.

  7. #127
    I have two problems with this novel

    1. Anduin's presence
    2. Written by Christie Golden

    this means Sylvanas will bring warm milk to Anduin's cell

  8. #128
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KainneAbsolute View Post
    Blizzard is rushing the expansion so they want to cover some plot points? hmmm
    Doubtful. They used to do multiple books per expansion a lot more frequently. Hell, Cataclysm had four tie-in books.

    Story and franchise development is all handled by the same group, so you can assume that they've got everything mapped out ahead of time.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    fingers crossed that better be Arator; though it's like Sylvanas and him don't even know each other
    I'm pretty sure Arator was still a child during that time anyway.


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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    This is exactly what the game needs!

    More Sylvanas. It's been seriously lacking in Sylvanas lore for 3 xpacs in a row now.
    It's rare I come across a post that is word for word exactly what I would say but here it is. Bravo.
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  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by RasAlhage View Post
    The jailer is the biggest fool to think he can manipulate her so easily. Everyone who tried to do this ended up badly.
    gr8 b8 m8

    even so, most of the people who manipulated her/fcked her over in some way, ended up dying bc simply they where villains, and most of the time she had nothing to do with it.

    ner'zhul? pushed aside by arthas, and will possibly be saved in the new raid. (sylvanas absent)
    arthas? was a main villain and died to tirion + "da adventurer" (sylvanas absent)
    varimathras? was defeated by "da adventurer", punished by the legion and later killed by "da adventurer" again (sylvanas absent)
    garrosh? survived her poison plot, died to "da adventurer" and thrall, will be saved in the new raid (sylvanas absent)
    genn? oh right, genns still alive and kicking

    general theme is: sylvanas is always screaming for revenge against the people who "wronged" her, but 90% of the time she doesnt have anything to do with their eventual demise
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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Wait, Sylvanas cares about Lirath now? I thought his death only affected Alleria. Sylvanas has never even mentioned Lirath in the past, if I remember correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    fingers crossed that better be Arator; though it's like Sylvanas and him don't even know each other
    Maybe. But it feels like precisely the bullshit kind of backtrack they'd do. "No, when Lirath died was secretly my REAL first moment that haunted me and I wanted to shield other youths from perished innocence and deep down I look at Anduin like another version of him and we're totally gonna be besties because I regret it. Now watch as I only 90% convert him via Kingsmourne so we can stage a coup later."

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Maybe. But it feels like precisely the bullshit kind of backtrack they'd do. "No, when Lirath died was secretly my REAL first moment that haunted me and I wanted to shield other youths from perished innocence and deep down I look at Anduin like another version of him and we're totally gonna be besties because I regret it. Now watch as I only 90% convert him via Kingsmourne so we can stage a coup later."
    Probably this. It will show 1) that the Blue Man is a complete moron (in true Blizzard fashion), for entrusting the preparation and usage of his greatest weapon to someone as trustworthy as Sylv, and 2) the one redeeming Sylv won't be, cannot be anyone other than Andy, in a cringeworthy retread of that atrocious BC finale, where Velen redeems the blood elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  14. #134
    yea awesome, sick of seeing her in game and now there is also a book about her.

    too bad blizz will put all the lore in the books and none of it in the game, 10/10 storytelling.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    fingers crossed that better be Arator; though it's like Sylvanas and him don't even know each other
    Nope, it's definitely Lirath. He's the closest to the Quel'Thalas background, he's on the "alive" side of Sylvanas' face and I'm pretty sure what he's holding is a lute.
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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Wait, Sylvanas cares about Lirath now? I thought his death only affected Alleria. Sylvanas has never even mentioned Lirath in the past, if I remember correctly.
    It wouldn't be too different to e.g. Lor'themar going on how Baine is "the soul of the Horde", even if they had never talked to each other. Or how the Dark Rangers raised by Sylv in Teldrassil/Darkshore travel to the opposite corner of the world in order to receive spiritual solace from someone who doesn't belong to their race, has never dwelled in nelf lands, doesn't share their background as former mindless soldiers, and doesn't profess their religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    Maybe. But it feels like precisely the bullshit kind of backtrack they'd do. "No, when Lirath died was secretly my REAL first moment that haunted me and I wanted to shield other youths from perished innocence and deep down I look at Anduin like another version of him and we're totally gonna be besties because I regret it. Now watch as I only 90% convert him via Kingsmourne so we can stage a coup later."
    The bolded part won't happen, as it's fairly clear she's a dupe and Blizzard have never used an endboss twice within the same expansion, but it should. Jobbing for a character who exists for one year as a culmination of a 20-year story is a bad story choice. Same for tying the situation back to her family, something that's been important to Sylvanas for every incarnation of hers except BFA where she quips one-liners while setting off explosives to gas her sister is also a good choice by itself. Lirath showed up in Three Sisters and making her abrupt focus on Anduin be projection regarding the only family member she hadn't demolished her relationship with at the time of his death is about the only way it's slightly less galling in what it actually is, i.e a form of character shilling like the dark rangers for Calia or Bob for Baine as @Soon-TM brings up.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-04-25 at 07:50 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Wait, Sylvanas cares about Lirath now? I thought his death only affected Alleria. Sylvanas has never even mentioned Lirath in the past, if I remember correctly.
    In War Crimes she states that. I generally recommend every Sylvanas hater right now to read that book because it explains more than Before the Storm does actually.
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  19. #139
    Huh, so the only shtick that made Alleria kinda different plotwise from her sisters is now also Sylvanas' shtick namely fixation over Lirath's death? Interesting.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Huh, so the only shtick that made Alleria kinda different plotwise from her sisters is now also Sylvanas' shtick namely fixation over Lirath's death? Interesting.
    And the fact that she has a "Fighting fire with fire" ideology, which her sisters don't have.
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