Are NPC Party Members An Inevitability?

[Makabreska]

How would the raid work? It would be easy- the player has to do his job. Think about it- each encounter has a set amount of "jobs" a player has to do. Stand in this, don't stand in that, run the mark to wall, do at least 4k dps, don't die. If the player is able to complete his jobs- you down the encounter (it is assumed the npcs will do their jobs but it doesn't have to be that way). If there is a special mechanic (like seeds or something) the player has to be the one that handles it (unless they are the tank).

This creates even more design problems than it solves. These NPCs would be a DPS/HEAL robots with crappy and limited AI, never doing any bigger mechanics and never being targeted by them. So even more responsibility falls on a single player. And what would determine their DPS/HPS output? Fights have different strategies where these things differ. Like Stone Legion for example: some strategies call for AoE burst adds on certain timers, some call for single target DMG and you can fuck up both of them if you apply DPS incorrectly. Not to mention if you undertune these NPCs then they become dead weight, if you overtune them, they will carry you. It's an undoable thing, too many variables to consider and system would be too limited.

[Jtbrig7390]

The Trust System (NPC's in the 4man dungeons) in FFXIV is great and I really hope Wow add's their own version.

Its a great way for people to learn their role without someone raging in their ear.

[Super Kami Dende]

Yes... putting more single player things in a MMo is great idea...

It is. Solo content is one of the main things that keeps me playing MMO's.

[Alydael]

This creates even more design problems than it solves. These NPCs would be a DPS/HEAL robots with crappy and limited AI, never doing any bigger mechanics and never being targeted by them. So even more responsibility falls on a single player. And what would determine their DPS/HPS output? Fights have different strategies where these things differ. Like Stone Legion for example: some strategies call for AoE burst adds on certain timers, some call for single target DMG and you can fuck up both of them if you apply DPS incorrectly. Not to mention if you undertune these NPCs then they become dead weight, if you overtune them, they will carry you. It's an undoable thing, too many variables to consider and system would be too limited.

I was thinking more that the NPCs are a non factor
It all relies on the player doing his job. Which makes it harder than an actual raid. If you mess up in the raid- there are brez, another player can help out and save you, a healer can use a cd (I guess you could add those as consumables or a one time use reward when you beat a boss. Maybe you get one "save" an encounter and you get to pick what it is as a strat?) Anyone that raids knows that these things happen almost every fight.
The heals NPCs will only put out the average hps required to beat an encounter. If you need more because you mess up- you will prob die and fail.

This mode is not meant to be easier than a raid- it is meant to be a solo challenge for the player.

The NPCs based on famous WOW heroes are more of a "cosmetic" aspect to the raid. I guess, if Blizz wanted, they could make an upgrade system for these NPCs, you could gear them and spec them (this could actually replace the command table and add an element of strategy to the game)- but all all seems needlessly complicated to me. I like them as cosmetic. Maybe they can even have voices in the raid and famous sayings.

This would also help solo players practice the raid and learn the encounters (since beating the boss in this case requires you to master the mechanics). The bosses in this mode would actually act closer to their original intent- since you have to do all the mechanics. How many times have you seen groups "cheese" a mechanic by a clever strategy or by stacking a class, certain consumables, etc? You would not be able to do that here.

[oldgeezer]

If they're scripted to say 'ty' at the end of the content that'd be more social than 95%+ of the people I meet in pugs. In fact I'd probably try and add them to my friends list.

[Big Thanks]

It is. Solo content is one of the main things that keeps me playing MMO's.

Can i ask you why you choose to play MMO's and not offline games instead?

MMO's re designed to have a comfy feeling in a shared world with other human beings.
You dont like that?
Why do you play them then?

[Cæli]

since wow looks very much like and offline game, I think it would be very profitable for them to make an offline option, like minecraft
maybe the best rewards could only be earned with real player content
but they have the technology to make the offline mode

[BrintoSFJ]

I say that blizzard should completely rework the story part of the game. And they add a unique story to every dungeon available to the game with its own npc quest givers. When we go through the area, we get quests from these npc and then follow these npc to the dungeon and complete a story mode of the dungeon along with the npc. This will unlock the group mode of the dungeon. Since each raid is story oriented, they should get the same treatment. The Chromie time travel leveling opens such a door for blizzard. Many people want to enjoy the story without being forced into groups, this system would help these people immensely.

As for npc in group dungeon, nope! Just nope!

[grandgato]

Yes... putting more single player things in a MMo is great idea...

Yep, no other MMORPG has tried this and shown it to be successful. None at all....

Can i ask you why you choose to play MMO's and not offline games instead?

MMO's re designed to have a comfy feeling in a shared world with other human beings.
You dont like that?
Why do you play them then?

The game evolves, gets updated, and you get to carry your progression forward to the next game (expansion). Is there a single player experience that is comparable to that?

[Thrif]

Actually hate it. They already pretty much removed all multiplayer content from outside activities, removing it from instances activities too would be a joke.

[Crimson Spears]

Are we pretending that if they did do something this dumb the same people who want them would then immediately bitch that the npcs couldnt carry them through a mythic 15 or mythic raid?

The only content I know of in game currently that doesn't have a massive pool of players doing it is warfronts,islands, and heroic dungeons while leveling.

[Soon-TM]

tbh wiht the lack of tanks and healers it probably will be unless we get more people playing these rolls i see this as an unavoidable and inevitable move by blizzard

Hardly. With how much Blizz loves to &$#@ on healers and especially tanks, I don't think there will be many folks willing to try their hand at it (moreso in a pug setting) until major changes are done.

[Super Kami Dende]

MMO's re designed to have a comfy feeling in a shared world with other human beings.
You dont like that? Why do you play them then?

Because I like playing games set in living worlds and just like Real-life I like being able to do things on my own and choose to do things with others if I feel like it. Do you choose to do everything you do daily in real-life with other People/Strangers all the time just because they are also around? I know I don't. Why is it bad wanting to play in a "virtual" world with millions of others but still want to do things solo if you want to?

MMO's evolve much more than offline games as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Only place where FFXIV style solo dungeon would work is normal dungeons and you would have to reduce the loot to one normal ilvl item and no gold.

What is your point? FFXIV NPC's are only for Normal Dungeons as well.

[Makabreska]

I mean, we all know the AI limits combined with the PvE content structure of WoW would be to great to go past Hc Dungeons/normal raids, so the question is this: do we really need this tech for this lvl of content?

Islands were a new AI testing ground, but it was all unimpressive, and as it is now, didn't born anything new.

[Aurabolt]

in what scenario?you didnt actualy mention that lol,we already have this system for some stuff,but do you mean for lfr and rdf?

I left that out on purpose actually since like I said, that'll be a separate thread and I tend to write a lot =P

[Nitedrifter]

I think they will do cross faction before they AI. Just my thoughts.

[Makabreska]

I think they will do cross faction before they AI. Just my thoughts.

Well, that's a much more obvious and easier way of helping PvE player base.

[Aurabolt]

I think they will do cross faction before they AI. Just my thoughts.

I only said it's inevitable. I never gave a potential timeline. Both are likely though.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm not so sure if cross faction would happen sooner than that. There is quite a bit of reluctance to either, but I think cross faction has even more antipathies than npc parties. If the difference is enough to go for npc parties and the development requirements remains to be seen. In that regard I doubt either is going to happen anytime soon.

[Makabreska]

I own up to my own fails and accept their consequences. I don't need other people's fails and problems to burden my game. Im sure everyone will agree I mean thats why we made R.io and metrics right?

WoW is not a tolerant game and its players are some of the worst in terms of toxicity. If it was a better community we wouldn't be having those long conversations about "bots to replace those empty spots", "please merge more servers the population is dwindling", "spent 3 hours trying to find a tank", "stopped playing healer due to flaming".

That the newcomer chat is a happy place is nice, too bad these newcomers are just days away from the R.io wall the people who "helped" them are building.

At the end of the day the argument is same as with LFR. You wouldn't want to play with those who play LFR so why would you care that LFR exists? Same with bot play. The people who would choose to play with bot partners are people who wouldn't want to play with you for any reason or they are people you would reject.

Well, you did say social aspect is gone form the game, that people barely tolerate each other etc. and that is all a vast exaggeration as I shown. And who are we to say with certainty how the new players will end?

This style of talk is pretty common in on-line games ("wtf my game has the most toxic players"), because negative experience is easier to notice and focus on, and people love to complain in general. WoW is not really different from other games in terms of nice people and shitheads, because every game has players, and people are people.