Ex-players cheering for the game to fail.

[Kyanion]

Ok so want to explain why Final Fantasy XIV has remained high in popularity and higher than WoW in analytics over the last 5 years? You can't, you can only make garbage halfassed excuses because you want to white knight for a trash game

Higher in what analytics? It isn't active subs as neither game reports them. It only has reported created accounts which are far lower than ones that WoW has reported. If you think FF is in a better state than WoW I don't know what to tell you man. Neither one is super healthy when weighed against other genres that are popular now.

Dude I'm not white knighting for WoW. I play it because I enjoy it, if the enjoyment wasn't being provided to me I'd stop playing it despite my gametime being paid off for the next 3 or 4 years because of my Bnet balance. WoW has gotten many things wrong in my opinion and it cost me some friends that stopped playing, that sucks. I wish the game was more enjoyable for others but to each their own. You call it trash and hate it but still raid, what the hell does that say?

[Zyky]

Higher in what analytics? It isn't active subs as neither game reports them. It only has reported created accounts which are far lower than ones that WoW has reported. If you think FF is in a better state than WoW I don't know what to tell you man. Neither one is super healthy when weighed against other genres that are popular now.

Dude I'm not white knighting for WoW. I play it because I enjoy it, if the enjoyment wasn't being provided to me I'd stop playing it despite my gametime being paid off for the next 3 or 4 years because of my Bnet balance. WoW has gotten many things wrong in my opinion and it cost me some friends that stopped playing, that sucks. I wish the game was more enjoyable for others but to each their own. You call it trash and hate it but still raid, what the hell does that say?

You are white knighting, you're refusal to acknowledge facts that tell us the game is dogshit is evidence of that.

[arr0gance]

You are white knighting, you're refusal to acknowledge facts that tell us the game is dogshit is evidence of that.

That's an interesting definition of the word "facts," there friendo.

[froschhure]

Noob Players not questioning bad decisions is what i dislike, yet i don't make a thread about it. Deal with it, the game is a shell of itself. Listening to more Exp. players is the solution and not the cancer you think it is (because you get triggered).

[arr0gance]

Noob Players not questioning bad decisions is what i dislike, yet i don't make a thread about it. Deal with it, the game is a shell of itself. Listening to more Exp. players is the solution and not the cancer you think it is (because you get triggered).

You just want WoD again, don't you? I mean, I wouldn't complain but it's not necessarily regarded as WoW's best expansion.

[SirBeef]

Noob Players not questioning bad decisions is what i dislike, yet i don't make a thread about it. Deal with it, the game is a shell of itself. Listening to more Exp. players is the solution and not the cancer you think it is (because you get triggered).

Bad decisions are still subjective. Many thought the return to difficult heroics in Cata was a bad thing. Others thought it was a good thing. Some people loved Garrisons, others hated it. Just because some people don't mind changes or decisions you don't like doesn't make them Bad. If all Blizzard did was listen to the "experienced" players you want them to listen to, the game may have folded by now.

[arr0gance]

Bad decisions are still subjective. Many thought the return to difficult heroics in Cata was a bad thing. Others thought it was a good thing. Some people loved Garrisons, others hated it. Just because some people don't mind changes or decisions you don't like doesn't make them Bad. If all Blizzard did was listen to the "experienced" players you want them to listen to, the game may have folded by now.

Keep in mind that "experienced players" is just another way to say "me, because I'm better than everybody and know how the game should be designed."

[SirBeef]

As I already said good content will keep players longer and draw in new players, if players leave for other reasons and the game is good then it will still be drawing in new/returning players who had to quit for lack of time, the game in it's current state and the state of the last few expansions are pushing many players away who will never give the game another chance and the word of mouth is overwhelmingly negative regarding the game right now which affects the draw to new players.

- - - Updated - - -



Clearly you don't know how statistics work, when they're posting that they had 100m accounts(not people) they included bot accounts, gold farm accounts, ect, which heavily skews the statistic. You might want to be more informed before you come up with garbage arguments. And yes Cataclysm is where everything started to go downhill, the minute Activision got their hands on Blizzard it was over for the game and we've seen the proof of that in the sub numbers from what Wrath had to the beginning of WoD.

And it very well may be. Unless Blizzard shares info to that specific type of player we will never know. I can anecdotally state that I have seen friends come and go throughout the years, some came back for what many would call bad expansions, WoD, BfA, Cata, and have left during good expansions, WotLK, MoP, Legion. I have no reason to doubt new players are coming in as well as returning players. I can easily say since my friends list is more active for WoW players than it has been in SL than it has been in a very long time. The bigger issue WoW faces is age and competition. By Competition I don't necessarily mean other MMOs, but other forms of free and cheaper entertainment that don't require that much of a time investment.

- - - Updated - - -

Keep in mind that "experienced players" is just another way to say "me, because I'm better than everybody and know how the game should be designed."

I know. It's pretty sad. It's also sad that people just can't get over the fact that the game may not be for them any more.

[NineSpine]

And it very well may be. Unless Blizzard shares info to that specific type of player we will never know. I can anecdotally state that I have seen friends come and go throughout the years, some came back for what many would call bad expansions, WoD, BfA, Cata, and have left during good expansions, WotLK, MoP, Legion. I have no reason to doubt new players are coming in as well as returning players. I can easily say since my friends list is more active for WoW players than it has been in SL than it has been in a very long time. The bigger issue WoW faces is age and competition. By Competition I don't necessarily mean other MMOs, but other forms of free and cheaper entertainment that don't require that much of a time investment.

- - - Updated - - -



I know. It's pretty sad. It's also sad that people just can't get over the fact that the game may not be for them any more.

We have a really solid proxy for popularity, and that is google trends. We can see wow is at an all time low. Now, before someone starts in with the nonsense that wow is just old and that is to be expected, FF14 is on the upswing and is now roughly tied with wow despite wow being twice as popular just a year ago.

- - - Updated - - -

Higher in what analytics? It isn't active subs as neither game reports them. It only has reported created accounts which are far lower than ones that WoW has reported. If you think FF is in a better state than WoW I don't know what to tell you man. Neither one is super healthy when weighed against other genres that are popular now.

Dude I'm not white knighting for WoW. I play it because I enjoy it, if the enjoyment wasn't being provided to me I'd stop playing it despite my gametime being paid off for the next 3 or 4 years because of my Bnet balance. WoW has gotten many things wrong in my opinion and it cost me some friends that stopped playing, that sucks. I wish the game was more enjoyable for others but to each their own. You call it trash and hate it but still raid, what the hell does that say?

Google trends shows FF14 continually increasing in popularity while wow continually decreases.

[cface]

Blizzard is holding back on fun intentionally, so that they can slowly give it out in hopes people sub-resub when they do.
I think the smart thing for a player (like me at least), is to just unsub now in the upcoming season 2 (it looks shit tbh, not a single attractive thing in there, not enough at least), and come back in either s3 or 4 when we have more legendaries, can use two of them, and a ton of secondary stats to speed up the game. The expansion is overall just more polished and settled later on.

[froschhure]

You just want WoD again, don't you? I mean, I wouldn't complain but it's not necessarily regarded as WoW's best expansion.

not at all i liked legion and bfa a lot, i love to grind and farm but uncapped, sl offers was too less content, but it is only my opinion

- - - Updated - - -

Keep in mind that "experienced players" is just another way to say "me, because I'm better than everybody and know how the game should be designed."

i thought it was quite the opposite, but k

[froschhure]

Bad decisions are still subjective. Many thought the return to difficult heroics in Cata was a bad thing. Others thought it was a good thing. Some people loved Garrisons, others hated it. Just because some people don't mind changes or decisions you don't like doesn't make them Bad. If all Blizzard did was listen to the "experienced" players you want them to listen to, the game may have folded by now.

i agree bad decision is highly subjective, but i speak for my own agenda and not for some company.. *cough*

[arr0gance]

Google trends shows FF14 continually increasing in popularity while wow continually decreases.

What a qualified metric!

Here's another qualified metric: The number of people on twitch watching the two games at 7 AM on a Monday morning...



:thinking:

[Loveliest]

Not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of people seem to enjoy seeing someone else lose / hurt etc. I would say human nature, exacerbated by the nature of the Internet.

[NineSpine]

What a qualified metric!

Here's another qualified metric: The number of people on twitch watching the two games at 7 AM on a Monday morning...



:thinking:

Google trends is the most powerful analytic tool for general popularity that human beings have ever designed. Your attempt to dismiss it is desperate and sad.

- - - Updated - - -

People have been stating this for a good number of years now, and nothing notable has come from it.
I've been a wow player since the beginning, and I habe played ff14 quite a bit too.
I enjoy ff14, I won't say it's bad because it's actually really good.
But.
It won't appeal to a lot of wow players, the game is very different, a different kind of grind too.
Its just a different game, at the moment I'm not playing it and are enjoying SL a lot.
But I will probably go back again in the future if I start to not like wow again.

My point is, ff14 is not a wow killer or is not stealing masses of wow players.
They are different games and one is not going to kill the other.

Nothing is a “wow killer”. Games with 1/50th the players of any of these big MMOs are still alive. Everquest is still on. Ultima Online is still on. This isn’t about when wow is going to die and be turned off.

What this is about is how willing activision is going to be to put resources into wow, and if it it is slipping very very hard. It is declining steeply in popularity and this expansion has been a total disaster. The delay for 9.1 indicates a significant decline in resources being put into the game.

[catalystical]

Google trends is the most powerful analytic tool for general popularity that human beings have ever designed. Your attempt to dismiss it is desperate and sad.

The thing is both of you are not wrong. WoW is trending downwards but it still has quite a sizable chunk of an audience.

The game is flawed. The game doesn't receive as much development input as it needs. But if your "criticism" is nothing more than some burning desire to see the game completely crash and burn along with everyone who plays it...then that's not healthy.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Some people are just bad and evil.

[arr0gance]

Google trends is the most powerful analytic tool for general popularity that human beings have ever designed. Your attempt to dismiss it is desperate and sad.

Care to explain why 10x more people are watching one game vs. the other? People tend to watch games they're actually playing, unless of course you just want to make the completely unfounded, completely unprovable statement that just because Google fucking trends is down that somehow WoW is equivocally dying and FFXIV is taking its place.

[NineSpine]

The thing is both of you are not wrong. WoW is trending downwards but it still has quite a sizable chunk of an audience.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. Some people are just bad and evil.

It has an audience that is clearly declining dramatically. The google trends bump for this expansion was the smallest for any expansion, and the falloff after has been equally unprecedented.

Wow classic is now outperforming shadowlands nearly 2:1 in trends. As of this month FF14 has basically caught up despite FF14 being at the end of an expansion and wow just releasing one a few months ago.

There’s a serious problem here, and the issue is not people who wish the game to fail. The issue is the people that refuse to recognize how badly it is failing. The game is going to lose resources, and likely already has. Huge delays between patches is going to become the norm, smaller expansions are going to be the norm, and the people sitting around declaring wow is always king and wow can’t fail and everything is fine are going to be very confused.

[arr0gance]

The thing is both of you are not wrong. WoW is trending downwards but it still has quite a sizable chunk of an audience.

WoW always trends downwards after between patches. It's done that since the beginning of time. It'll keep doing it. It's just one more in a long line of really stupid things WoW players try to associate the "game dying" with because lord fucking knows we need proof of that.

[NineSpine]

Care to explain why 10x more people are watching one game vs. the other? People tend to watch games they're actually playing, unless of course you just want to make the completely unfounded, completely unprovable statement that just because Google fucking trends is down that somehow WoW is equivocally dying and FFXIV is taking its place.

Google trends is an analytics tool that is the basis for huge amounts of serious business and scientific work. Twitch is not. The comparison is comically absurd.

I don’t think you quite understand what google trends is or why it is important, and at this point it is likely a purposeful ignorance to avoid having to face reality.