Ex-players cheering for the game to fail.

[SirBeef]

What a qualified metric!

Here's another qualified metric: The number of people on twitch watching the two games at 7 AM on a Monday morning...



:thinking:

Yup. So by that we can extrapolate that WoW has about 10x as many players than FF14.

Did I do that right?

[Naiattavain]

chris metzen was the guy behind the magic at blizzard for wow to achieve success. blizzard went from small company to AT&T status of serving customers over night. but ever since hes been retired the game has lacked big time retail wow now is not as good when Chris was working at blizzard. vanilla to bc and wrath of the lichking wow saw great success. cata started a decline but leveled out with mists of pandaria after wod which was a successful expac legion just broke everything down so now you guys have your modern wow which is less satisfying than the chris metzen effect behind everything. chris metzen offered better quality to the game this was great why the game was fun back then.

[arr0gance]

I would agree with this sentiment. At some point they do need to pick a audience.

That's the issue -- WoW's playerbase is so fractured that there is no "lane" for it to stay in. The game has such a broad appeal and so many things to do in it that often times there are two entirely conflicting pools of players who want very different things. Blizzard has an onerous task of making everybody happy and I just don't think that will ever happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup. So by that we can extrapolate that WoW has about 10x as many players than FF14.

Did I do that right?

You did about as right as the guy who was insisting Google trends are able to tell us subscriber numbers. (This is potentially wildly inaccurate, unsubstantiated data; that was the point I was making.)

[Grimlokh]

I dont wish the "game" to fail so much as I wish Activision to pay for all the damage that its doing to the game, to its employees (who are getting shafted year after year), and to its playerbase that are treated more and more as fuckin souless idiots (thats maybe the player´s fault). If this game, or any other Activison game has to burn to the ground for Activision to be better, then so be it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I dont wish the "game" to fail so much as I wish Activision to pay for all the damage that its doing to the game, to its employees (who are getting shafted year after year), and to its playerbase that are treated more and more as fuckin souless idiots (thats maybe the player´s fault). If this game, or any other Activison game has to burn to the ground for Activision to be better, then so be it.

As long as they can grow their profits and player engagement and sell record amounts of copies for what they're currently doing with the game, they won't have a need to change it.

So I blame players 50% as they are the half that drives how the game develops.

[ellieg]

I dont wish the "game" to fail so much as I wish Activision to pay for all the damage that its doing to the game, to its employees (who are getting shafted year after year), and to its playerbase that are treated more and more as fuckin souless idiots (thats maybe the player´s fault). If this game, or any other Activison game has to burn to the ground for Activision to be better, then so be it.

But have you considered that ppl might actually like what Activision is doing? Its not the same WoW that I played 15 years ago but tbh, I prob wouldn't play that same wow. I get a few 2-3 hr segments a week to hop on. None at "raid time". I absolutely wouldn't play original wow again. However, I love being able to log on, find a group for my preferred content and difficulty level, and smash it out. I believe it was Activision that made the game more accessible. Come to think of it, only other game I play anymore is warzone. Activision owns that too and I think overall they are doing a pretty good job with it.

[Freedom]

But have you considered that ppl might actually like what Activision is doing? Its not the same WoW that I played 15 years ago but tbh, I prob wouldn't play that same wow. I get a few 2-3 hr segments a week to hop on. None at "raid time". I absolutely wouldn't play original wow again. However, I love being able to log on, find a group for my preferred content and difficulty level, and smash it out. I believe it was Activision that made the game more accessible. Come to think of it, only other game I play anymore is warzone. Activision owns that too and I think overall they are doing a pretty good job with it.

B-b-ut it's not an acceptable opinion to like the game or Blizzard, let alone Activision!

That kind of attitude, "If I don't like it, you're not allowed to either", is real tiresome. And this comes from someone who hated Legion and disliked timers in M+ with a burning passion. They took the game in a direction I didn't care for, so I moved on, only sticking around these forums at times to see what's happening, and for some silly posts to laugh at.

[azka]

the massive lose of subs a few months after the expac comes out starting in wod. people only unsub when they don't have content. this means people don't think there is enough meaningful content outside of end game. notice how vanilla, tbc, wrath, and cata (to an extent. cata started the whole nerfing entire raid tiers) didn't lose massive amounts of players in a short time frame? if blizz can't even keep a steady amount of players, the game isn't thriving.

You really need to stop listening to Bellular.
The game always has a lot of returning players at the beginning of each expansion, lose most of them after the first few weeks... get some back at each patch release, rinse and repeat.
The game is in a good place for a lot of us, we'd love to be in the middle of 9.1 by now, for sure, but considering Pandemic and stuff, it's OK.
You don't like it? that's fine, just move on. There are more games.

[ellieg]

B-b-ut it's not an acceptable opinion to like the game or Blizzard, let alone Activision!

That kind of attitude, "If I don't like it, you're not allowed to either", is real tiresome. And this comes from someone who hated Legion and disliked timers in M+ with a burning passion. They took the game in a direction I didn't care for, so I moved on, only sticking around these forums at times to see what's happening, and for some silly posts to laugh at.

It is a very weird feeling being on a fan site and feeling like the minority for actually liking the game lol.

There are a lot of games and activities I liked at one point but either they changed or I changed and so I simply stopped playing / doing them. Wish more ppl could just move on

[Freedom]

It is a very weird feeling being on a fan site and feeling like the minority for actually liking the game lol.

There are a lot of games and activities I liked at one point but either they changed or I changed and so I simply stopped playing / doing them. Wish more ppl could just move on

If I didn't have the Scrod quote in my signature, I would be very tempted to put this in there instead:

At this point MMO-C isn't a fansite anymore. It's just a hate echo chamber.

It's kind of funny, from my perspective, isn't it: still here and posting, but not being a bitter moron like so many on this site do, myself vaguely defending the game and the right to like it even though they made it not my thing in early Legion, where others would go, "BUT WHY CAN'T WE LIEK REMOVE TEH TIMER FROM M+. AND WHERE IS 10M HEROICCCC" for years and years.

[kodemonkee]

Jesus. Never seen anything so sad in my life. These individuals want the game to be "punished" for some perceived insult against them, which largely revolves around gameplay being modified in a way they dislike. No thought or consideration, just a "my way or the high way" bullcrap attitude. You point this out and they'll accuse you of being a "fanboy" who licks Blizzard's boots. Wow, how original.

The game is flawed. The game doesn't receive as much development input as it needs. But if your "criticism" is nothing more than some burning desire to see the game completely crash and burn along with everyone who plays it...then that's not healthy.

Ultimately, why are you even here. #TouchGrass.

Who do you mean? Any source?

[Kyanion]

You are white knighting, you're refusal to acknowledge facts that tell us the game is dogshit is evidence of that.

Ah yes I see you quickly dropped your 'analytics' of FF and just switched back to bashing WoW because you have jack shit to present. You are just arguing in bad faith the entire time and thus wasting my time. Also, you need to learn what a fact is.

[ellieg]

If I didn't have the Scrod quote in my signature, I would be very tempted to put this in there instead:


It's kind of funny, from my perspective, isn't it: still here and posting, but not being a bitter moron like so many on this site do, myself vaguely defending the game and the right to like it even though they made it not my thing in early Legion, where others would go, "BUT WHY CAN'T WE LIEK REMOVE TEH TIMER FROM M+. AND WHERE IS 10M HEROICCCC" for years and years.

Ya I just dont understand it. Some ppl on here call the game total "dogshit" but yet still play it lol. Others truly believe that Blizzard is going to go to page 23 of a random thread on this forum, read their comment, and go "holy shit! He's right. I gotta make this happen "

[Zyky]

Ah yes I see you quickly dropped your 'analytics' of FF and just switched back to bashing WoW because you have jack shit to present. You are just arguing in bad faith the entire time and thus wasting my time. Also, you need to learn what a fact is.

Again you're refusing to acknowledge the facts that are right in front of you, the facts that we have both in the game and the facts from official blizzard reports. The game is garbage.

[sfbr]

for me im rooting for it to END, not fail not succeed because i just dont care. just end so a new MMO can come along and we can cry about how its trash and MMO X kills MMO Y. i just want a new paint job on the same old BS

[Marxman]

I don't see many ex-players rooting for the game to fail. I don't know why you'd want it to fail if you ever truly loved the game.

I see a LOT of ex-players hoping for the game to be good again. Personally, I don't think it'll ever happen. I think Activision ahs gotten it's grubby mitts too deep into Blizzard at this point. Too many important developers have moved on, too many suits making gameplay decisions, too much emphasis on metrics instead of fun. I doubt the game will ever be great again.

That said, I really hope it is one day. That day is not today, though.

[ro9ue]

Higher in what analytics? It isn't active subs as neither game reports them. It only has reported created accounts which are far lower than ones that WoW has reported. If you think FF is in a better state than WoW I don't know what to tell you man. Neither one is super healthy when weighed against other genres that are popular now.

Dude I'm not white knighting for WoW. I play it because I enjoy it, if the enjoyment wasn't being provided to me I'd stop playing it despite my gametime being paid off for the next 3 or 4 years because of my Bnet balance. WoW has gotten many things wrong in my opinion and it cost me some friends that stopped playing, that sucks. I wish the game was more enjoyable for others but to each their own. You call it trash and hate it but still raid, what the hell does that say?

3rd party Statista reports that marketers buy and that MMO population pulls from. Daily active users pulled from algorithms that crawl player data:

World of Warcraft ------- 2,176,509
Destiny 2 ------- 1,240,807
Old School RuneScape ------- 2,040,699
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn ------- 2,389,369
World of Warcraft Classic ------- 1,182,759
ROBLOX ------- 551,237
The Elder Scrolls Online ------- 1,029,988
Elite Dangerous ------- 884,122
RuneScape ------- 1,110,310
Guild Wars 2 ------- 541,083

In WoW's defense there isn't a way to make a distinction between a paid and F2P user. Most of these games have a HUGE chunk of free to play content. Example - I play Destiny 2 quite a bit and have never paid them a dime. So while yes WoW is doing much more poorly than it was it still needs to be taken into consideration that if you combine both retail and classic you're looking at over 3mil active players that are ALL pretty much guaranteed to be paid accounts since WoW's F2P model only covers the first 20 levels. Though that's also giving WoW the benefit of the doubt that they're all unique users. A little more difficult to determine because of the shared sub, but if it's 1 person who plays a bit of both it counts as 2.

[Soon-TM]

WoW's leveling should be updated however, yes. The squish and the island are cool, sure. And the new Chromie paths are nice. But, no one wants to play in the Cata world, only to go to Northrend, etc etc in 2008 graphics, only to do to Draenor with its newer technology.

If it was up to me, I'd level up all the way from 1(10)-60 in Outland or Northrend, despite the old af graphics. But I agree that Kalimdor/EK could really use a revamp, hopefully not in Cata style but something more... constructive.

[TheFirstOnes]

If it was up to me, I'd level up all the way from 1(10)-60 in Outland or Northrend, despite the old af graphics. But I agree that Kalimdor/EK could really use a revamp, hopefully not in Cata style but something more... constructive.

Marlamin found updated Human building models that appear to be VERY Elwynn Foresty. Maybe 10.0 can be about a World Revamp and the first parts of the Light and Shadow plotline.

[Kyanion]

Again you're refusing to acknowledge the facts that are right in front of you, the facts that we have both in the game and the facts from official blizzard reports. The game is garbage.

I think you are having trouble with what facts are.