They should nerf Cov gear

[ellieg]

I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?

[Segus1992]

They shouldn't, and won't. 9.1 is the next update the game gets, and it'll change all that anyway.

[cparle87]

The covenant gear is not nearly that easy to do. When launch happened you were timegated by the covenant campaign to get your pieces and raise the upgrade cap. Even then the anima cost to upgrade them was quite steep. Even now it will take you several days of grind catchup, do campaign, grind catchup to max out. Normals are for levelling up, once you're max their purpose is over. Also covenant pieces don't cover every slot. You still need world bosses, LFR, mythics, etc for the slots covenant doesn't cover. Also world quests don't give 194 until renown 29.

In short, you're exaggerating how quickly covenant gear comes in order to suit your agenda.

[Weeps]

it took me until last month to get to 200. I am super casual. It is not as quick as you think for people like myself who play an hour or so a day.

[Molvonos]

Apparently you forgot with crafters mark 2 you can have a full set of 168 gear right out the gate, tailor suited for your spec, as well as weapons until you finish your covenant campaign.

Dark moon trinkets are cheap too, giving you an automatic 200 ilvl item for one of those slots too

You can almost immediately jump into heroics as a result, then into lfr.

Yet the covenant sets you gotta dump anima into are the problem?

[ellieg]

The covenant gear is not nearly that easy to do. When launch happened you were timegated by the covenant campaign to get your pieces and raise the upgrade cap. Even then the anima cost to upgrade them was quite steep. Even now it will take you several days of grind catchup, do campaign, grind catchup to max out. Normals are for levelling up, once you're max their purpose is over. Also covenant pieces don't cover every slot. You still need world bosses, LFR, mythics, etc for the slots covenant doesn't cover. Also world quests don't give 194 until renown 29.

In short, you're exaggerating how quickly covenant gear comes in order to suit your agenda.

In the first couple months u would be correct. But this has not been the case for 3+ months now. I have 3 lvl 60 alts now. Each of them hit 197+ within 24 hours of hitting 60. The covenant campaign is very easy. The anima quests get u near 3000 anima in a little over an hour which is almost enough to fully upgrade all of it, especially if 1/9 slots is your legendary. With a few hours of pvp, you'll have enough honor to fill in the offslots. And 1 of your trinkets is very easily bought for under 10k at 200 ilvl, eliminating the need for 4250 honor.

After the first 2 months of the patch, getting to 197 ilvl is done in under 24 hours and there is very little for casuals to do to progress.

[VinceVega]

Oh well... i don't think people who are ACTUAL casual really care about it. Because the will take quite some time to even finish the story campaign and get the whole anima.

I also used this to level up my twink. Took me about 8 hours to get to nearly iLvL 200. Including endless waiting for LFR queue to pop.

This gear is a good way to gear up for people who have absolutly no interest in group content. Which apparantly are 99% of players according to this forum.

Normal raiding should be gutted anyway. Completly useless difficulty. But these sets... meh who cares. They are completly obsolete in the next patch anyway.

[Eosia]

They shouldn't, and won't. 9.1 is the next update the game gets, and it'll change all that anyway.

Exactly. People seem to forget that the x.0 Patch is not the only one in the expansion. So Blizzard puts systems into place looking forward to x.1 and beyond rather than having to wedge them in later.

[vsb]

After the first 2 months of the patch, getting to 197 ilvl is done in under 24 hours and there is very little for casuals to do to progress.

If someone spends 1 hour/week, that's already 6 months of gameplay. Also it's unlikely that casuals are aware of that optimized path, therefore even hardcore casuals are likely to spend hours on fishing, pet collecting and other stuff rather than focusing on gear.

Also complaining about heroic dungeons being irrelevant is kind of late, I think. They were irrelevant outside of first addon week for many years.

[ellieg]

Exactly. People seem to forget that the x.0 Patch is not the only one in the expansion. So Blizzard puts systems into place looking forward to x.1 and beyond rather than having to wedge them in later.

I am of the opinion that they will either update the cov sets, or introduce other catch up gear that is just as easy next patch. Bringing them up to the same relative ilvl that will once again invalidate all the same previous content.

Thats just my guess tho. We will see.

[Pandragon]

The covenant gear does zero to help you get pvp gear. A few hours pvp vs farming anima is no different. Except people actually have to play to farm anima. In pvp they can basically afk. In base defense maps you just "defend" a base while watching tv and capture the flag modes you just suicide yourself over and over.

[ellieg]

If someone spends 1 hour/week, that's already 6 months of gameplay. Also it's unlikely that casuals are aware of that optimized path, therefore even hardcore casuals are likely to spend hours on fishing, pet collecting and other stuff rather than focusing on gear.

Also complaining about heroic dungeons being irrelevant is kind of late, I think. They were irrelevant outside of first addon week for many years.

Im going based off of the posts I see regularly on here about how casuals have nothing to do because there is no progression. If you only play 1 hour a week, ud be right. But thats really extremely casual

[Kantoro]

Yes. becuz it is SUPER fun to spam normals for gear with the retarded loot system in place. Doing necrotic wake 36 times to get the gun for your hunter. They another 30+ times on heroic is a fantastic and engaging mechanic.

[kranur]

I see a lot of casuals complaining about lack of progression which is a very valid complaint. I believe the main culprit is covenant gear. There are 9 pieces of covenant gear that scale up to 197. Within a few hours of hitting 60, all that's required is to do the campaign, then knock out the 2 750 anima dungeon quests, and the 1 1250 anima sire quest from lfr. In 5 or so hours, casuals get 9 pieces of 197 gear, and a 187 weapon. Can pvp for a few hours and fill in the offslots with 197 honor gear.

This has ruined the previous pathway of progression. No need to do normals that grant 158. No need for heroics that grant 171. No need for mythic 0 that grants 184. No need for LFR (besides the sire quest, or 1 boss for a specific lego) that grant 187. No need for world quests which i believe grant 194. All of these are almost instantly obsolete within 24 hours of hitting 60.

The only "casual" content left is callings once a day for a low chance of up to 203 ilvl gear. World boss once a week for a low chance of 207. And 2 layers of torghast once a week until they get their 235 lego.

The next step for them to get gear drops, is normal raids that only drop 200/207. Or step into heroic for 213/220. M+7 for 200 drops or m+2 for a once a week reward for 200 from the vault. Or do queued pvp for slow trickle of conquest to get 200 ilvl, or get up to at least 1400 in rated for 207. Certain "casuals" have expressed some form of aversion to this content, I believe because it's unqueued.

If covenant gear got nerfed to a lower ilvl, or timegated in someway, maybe similar to the great vault with weekly capped upgrades, then casuals would get back the progression they are asking for. Would casuals prefer this progression? Or do they prefer the easy 197 gear?

We are now 20 weeks into the expansion. They were intended to be a catchup as the weekly covenant gating got removed little by little.

[Nnyco]

You make it sound like 197 is crazy gear. (spoiler: its not)

[ellieg]

You make it sound like 197 is crazy gear. (spoiler: its not)

The casuals im referring to like to do mostly solo content, or queued content. The ilvl of cov gear invalidates all queued content. Leaving very very little for this type of player to progress.

The solution would be lowering the ilvl, or gating it. Maybe do enough heroic dungeons or world quests or something will open up a slot in the vault. Slot would be a 197 piece. Or maybe only 1 slot and it unlocks an upgrade token

[uuuhname]

I'm a casual, and my guild is doing mythic progression. I don't see the problem.

[Gorsameth]

In the first couple months u would be correct. But this has not been the case for 3+ months now. I have 3 lvl 60 alts now. Each of them hit 197+ within 24 hours of hitting 60. The covenant campaign is very easy. The anima quests get u near 3000 anima in a little over an hour which is almost enough to fully upgrade all of it, especially if 1/9 slots is your legendary. With a few hours of pvp, you'll have enough honor to fill in the offslots. And 1 of your trinkets is very easily bought for under 10k at 200 ilvl, eliminating the need for 4250 honor.

After the first 2 months of the patch, getting to 197 ilvl is done in under 24 hours and there is very little for casuals to do to progress.

Geting quick 197 at this point in time is not a problem. It being able for people to catch up a little bit in gear after several months is not a bad thing.

[Duese]

Why would they REMOVE progression paths instead of adding more progression paths?

The entire point of this reward progression was to have alternative paths of progression. Why would they remove it when it was put in specifically as an alternative to the dungeon spam.

The answer isn't to remove progression paths, but add more and continue the already created alternative progression paths.

Crazy concept but not everyone wants the only progression path available to them to be spamming dungeons. This isn't people who refuse to group up either. A lot of people like me have ran so many dungeons on other characters that they really just want to do something different for progression.

[munkeyinorbit]

The covenant gear is not nearly that easy to do. When launch happened you were timegated by the covenant campaign to get your pieces and raise the upgrade cap. Even then the anima cost to upgrade them was quite steep. Even now it will take you several days of grind catchup, do campaign, grind catchup to max out. Normals are for levelling up, once you're max their purpose is over. Also covenant pieces don't cover every slot. You still need world bosses, LFR, mythics, etc for the slots covenant doesn't cover. Also world quests don't give 194 until renown 29.

In short, you're exaggerating how quickly covenant gear comes in order to suit your agenda.

Right now it takes 5 hours to do as a tank. Campaign, 1 LFR last boss, 1 mythic, and the appropriate quests. 5 hours and you have 9 197, 1 184 , 1 neck at 171, and the 2 rings and 1 trinket can be purchased for 5k. You're just ignoring facts because it doesn't align with your agenda.