Preach Developer Interview with Ion Hazzikostas - Patch 9.1

[Sanguinerd]

Then what are casuals asking for? 210? 207? Regardless of what the number is, my question remains: What does a Casual need the gear for if they aren't engaging in content that requires it? Alternatively, ilv 200 is sufficient enough to go back and solo most things back in BFA (maybe not Mythic Ny'alotha raid).




And that's another issue, WoW is built as a MMORPG. Certain activities require group/team play in the current content. If folks don't want to group up, there are more than a handful of prior expansions content that is soloable but current content in WoW has always required some level group effort for dungeons/raids/BGs/Arenas. There are exceptional players that are able to pull off solo current content but those are exceptions and not the norm.

Doesn't matter what they need the gear for, what matters is feeling like their character is progressing in some way. Having that taken away is in part why so many have quit. That directly ties into the mmoRPG part of the game

[Edward Wu]

How is it easier? And at what point are you talking about? Leveling? 50-60/ Fresh 60 (Classic where you can start running BRD, DM, LBRS, UBRS, etc...)? or 60 and getting geared from raids?

SL has FAR more options and avenues of attaining relevant gear than Classic, so you can participate in multiple types of content and be almost guaranteed that you're going to get an upgrade/ something useful. You can't say the same for Classic.

Post-max level endgame progression is easier in Classic than it is for SL. Leveling taking longer is moot, it's not endgame and nobody cares about it.

Reaches BWL level of gear in Classic can take maybe 1.5-2 months while reaching 226 in WoW can take literally 4-5 months of casual play. The vast majority of casuals don't do +10s let alone ever step foot into +15s to be able to even scrape 220s. I don't know why it's so confusing for people that Classic would be more attractive to casuals. The dungeons aren't that hard and the raids are definitely easier. 40 mans are a lot easier on individual players than the 20ish man guilds of retail. You mostly just have to show up and collect loot.

[Alroxas]

Doesn't matter what they need the gear for, what matters is feeling like their character is progressing in some way. Having that taken away is in part why so many have quit. That directly ties into the mmoRPG part of the game

Eh... Technically progression taken away happened back in BFA in season 4 when Blizzard removed WF/TF for corruption. You no longer had an RNG element that could potentially reward you with an "upgrade".

Corruption (and corruption stacking) was RNG based until vendor was added in but even then, you were limited to how much ilv gear and how much corruption you could achieve. At some point, progression also ended if you didn't do higher tiers of content.

In SL, the difference is without WF/TF and without Corruption there are (currently) no gearing shortcuts that provide "free" access to additional progression. Instead, if you want that progression you must work for it (or wait until the next content patch for the inevitable bump in ilv rewards across the board).

What RPG gives player power for doing nothing or very little? Even a passive game like Loop Hero requires the player to plan and place tiles to provide progression.

[Domanic]

I actually hate Preach. What a pathetic meta slave. This entire interview is a case study in how completely out of touch the developers and their elitist butt buddies are.

This game is dying and it's evident because they give no fucks in developing for casuals. Kevin Jordan put it best, this is a game for 'chasers" who chase the top 1%. There's no room for anyone else.

Lol, the "top 1%" were doing +14s and the heroic raid in ilvl 200 gear and no 2nd potency conduits or full soulbinds, if you can't do 10s in time or the heroic raid at ilvl 205, it's a you problem, you're just not smart enough or objective enough to recognize your terrible play.

[Gaidax]

So I’m definitely the absolute worst in math, but... is he saying someone 20 ilvls higher should do 20% more damage, but if there is such gap, it’s skill issue?

This was an answer to that derpy push by preach where supposedly gear gap is enormous to the point of players being several times more powerful at top level.

Which, IMO, is BS - crowdpleaser loaded question.

[Tiwack]

Did he just ignore the exponential scaling off of stats on gear and tell players to gitgud in response to the massive gap between 2 players 20 ilvls apart? Maybe that's why their balancing is such shit, rofl.

[Aggressive]

Remove conduits, put in actual cosmetic rewards for Torghast, reduce ilvl rewards for M+, and give us real valor points for raids. That's it. That's all you gotta do, Ion.

His comment about borrowed power so far is the only step in the right direction here. How they choose to move away from it and what they'll replace it with is a careful step they'll have to make, however.

This is a idiotic suggestion. I just got into another discussion with someone else earlier about reducing the iLvL of covenant gear. Like WTF are you and that other guy smoking to give suggestions about reducing iLvL gear. As if this shitty expansion isn't hard enough to gear a toon with.

[Gratlim]

lol at the 20 ilvl gap issue. Such a slap in the face of pvpers. For pvp 20 ilvl is: +20 damage flat, +10% for versa, +33% HP, +5% crit / haste.

[DazManianDevil]

Post-max level endgame progression is easier in Classic than it is for SL. Leveling taking longer is moot, it's not endgame and nobody cares about it.

Reaches BWL level of gear in Classic can take maybe 1.5-2 months while reaching 226 in WoW can take literally 4-5 months of casual play. The vast majority of casuals don't do +10s let alone ever step foot into +15s to be able to even scrape 220s. I don't know why it's so confusing for people that Classic would be more attractive to casuals. The dungeons aren't that hard and the raids are definitely easier. 40 mans are a lot easier on individual players than the 20ish man guilds of retail. You mostly just have to show up and collect loot.

Not to butt into your conversation, but I find this comparison I bit misleading.
I cleared BWL wearing a mix of MC and ZG gear, hardly anything decent. And while parsing in Classic is a joke, I did purple so I wasn't a total carry.
226 on the other hand is quite a different benchmark. I'm currently 6/10M and I'm only 224, I was 220 in early February.
226 is more like, full AQ40/Naxx gear. While a casual player could hit 226, I think the ballpark is closer to full AQ40/Naxx in terms of time/skill.
If you said BWL was comparable to 213ilvl or even 220 I'd probably agree with that comparison. Just my 2 cents.

[kiramon]

I honestly think the thing that depresses me the most about these interviews is the lack of insight by the developer team into the trends that EVERYONE understands but them.

Take, for example, the point Preach brought up about item level. Ion pushed back against this saying their item budget was just like it was during Wrath. But let's face it... nobody thinks it's the same as it was in Wrath. Someone with ten item levels above you isn't doing 10% more DPS, they're literally doing 50% more. Anyone in M+ or raids understands this. It's an example of the player base perceiving something, and the developers saying no, this can't possibly be the case and our numbers are correct... but those numbers are entirely opposite of what the players perceive.

Another example, Preach mentioned the Maw starting area skip. There was no reaction whatsoever from Ion. This is literally something that 99% of the player base has asked for... but nothing. Crickets.

I truly don't understand why they even bother with these interviews. Personally I'm tired of everyone so outgearing the raids via M+ that the loot awarded inside the raid becomes useless (or, people are still stuck with sub-200 gear because the only thing that drops for them to take them out of the hole is on Denathrius). The answer to these issues always seems to be "working as intended". Well, that's fine, it might be working as intended, but working as it's intended is boring, annoying or extremely irritating, and it's killing the spirit of your players.

The item level thing is just ridiculous.

This is clearly observable. Maybe he forgot the ilvl squish. Idk, but it's definitely not 1% per ilvl, and it's definitely more disparity from 210 to 220 than 190-200. I can sim my character in 200 and then 220 if he wants to see the difference from a theoretical sim using the exact same "skill level."

He is just wrong.

[Stormspellz]

-Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath. 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
-If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.

so if ilvl is 1:1% power, 20ilvls is 20% increased power, and that that isn't some how a big gap....w....t.....f is he smoking

[kiramon]

so if ilvl is 1:1% power, 20ilvls is 20% increased power, and that that isn't some how a big gap....w....t.....f is he smoking

That'd be big either way. but it's way bigger than 20%, lol

[Baishiko]

Doubt all you want. Funny how people have said wow has been dying since TBC, mainly fools. But it's subs are the single highest out of every game on the market. The people who say wow is dying are well stupid.

Out of curiosity, where have you seen the metrics that illustrate your point? I've been trying to find some hard data about this but haven't been able to. Thanks, in advance!

[munkeyinorbit]

I actually hate Preach. What a pathetic meta slave. This entire interview is a case study in how completely out of touch the developers and their elitist butt buddies are.

This game is dying and it's evident because they give no fucks in developing for casuals. Kevin Jordan put it best, this is a game for 'chasers" who chase the top 1%. There's no room for anyone else.

This is where people show how out of touch they are. This is the most casual friendly expansion since WotLK. You have 3 very valid ways to make your character more powerful through grouped content. You have unlimited space for pets. You have easy to make legendaries. You have guaranteed weekly loot. Catch-up gear is at its highest comparitive ilvl since WotLK. Casuals have it great. You can literally play for 2 hours a week and still advance your character in a meaningful way.

[oathy]

I feel its at the stage now at least half of what he says will never happen.
when they hyped up the class changes before SL I really had high hopes.
adding back some curses for my lock is nothing like he suggested.

Certain Classes/specs are still boring because of the savage pruning, It doesnt what content is added
if a spec is lacking that impacts the entire game. My Alt is a Disc priest I just dont like shadow and not good enough for holy.
her damage is laughable. I can stay alive no problem but taking down an elite takes 4+ Minutes

[Gaidax]

The item level thing is just ridiculous.

This is clearly observable. Maybe he forgot the ilvl squish. Idk, but it's definitely not 1% per ilvl, and it's definitely more disparity from 210 to 220 than 190-200. I can sim my character in 200 and then 220 if he wants to see the difference from a theoretical sim using the exact same "skill level."

He is just wrong.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...DjqgYYSFbsrYax

Sim of my character with full Mythic gear (226/233) vs absolutely same gear at Normal level (200/207), legendary scaled down to 210, every piece is 200, except for last boss pieces - at 207, as per what normal raids drop.




It's almost precisely 20%, so Ion is on spot and there go your feels.

[munkeyinorbit]

This dude has no idea what he's talking about.

Tbh it's always been a skill issue. The guys in the lower gear are usually worse at the game but they have this inflated ego where they think they are actually good. They aren't and that's why their gear is worse. That's why they get rekt.

- - - Updated - - -

"There are new UI elements for Torghast in 9.1. You will have a "hot streak" rating bar that improves your score by playing well."

WTF does it means? You can play in Torghast as you want but if you won`t do it as WE want from you....you gonna fail?

If you read two lines lower he stated that there are multiple ways of doing it to get the maximum rewards. Two lines lower.

[Katchii]

Post-max level endgame progression is easier in Classic than it is for SL. Leveling taking longer is moot, it's not endgame and nobody cares about it.

I never mentioned anything about time for leveling, just brought it up as that IS a portion of the game where you still need to think about gearing.

Reaches BWL level of gear in Classic can take maybe 1.5-2 months while reaching 226 in WoW can take literally 4-5 months of casual play.

I think you're severely...like REALLY bad, overestimating how long it takes to gear up in SL.

You're also not even accounting for the level of engagement it takes to level up to BWL item levels in Classic vs the equivalent ilevel in SL (which isn't 226). if 226 is your benchmark, then AQ40/Naxx level gear is what you should be comparing it to.

In SL you can gear up very casually, running Mythic dungeons, LFR, doing WQ's etc... with absolutely zero commitment to a guild and not having to rely on whatever raiding schedule your realm is on, unlike Classic. Granted some of those won't get you the highest ilevel available but it IS gear progression and that wasn't the argument, at least it wasn't mine and that's not what you stated in the post I originally quoted.

The vast majority of casuals don't do +10s let alone ever step foot into +15s to be able to even scrape 220s.

That's irrelevant. You're statement was that it's easier to gear in Classic vs SL, period. The point is that someone can get more gear faster and easier in SL than in Classic. If you're going to qualify it to casuals vs "hardcore" or whatever, your point falls apart even more, because to even get to the point where you can get BWL level gear (or better) in Classic there are no "casuals" at that point. It takes FAR more time and dedication to get to that point in Classic than it does in SL.

[Scarnage86]

-Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath. 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
.If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.

so if add 20% of equip diff plus lets say another 20%+ for skill diff we reach a 50%<> from a 220 skilled vs a 200 bad player

[ohwell]

Remove conduits, put in actual cosmetic rewards for Torghast, reduce ilvl rewards for M+, and give us real valor points for raids. That's it. That's all you gotta do, Ion.

His comment about borrowed power so far is the only step in the right direction here. How they choose to move away from it and what they'll replace it with is a careful step they'll have to make, however.

Current gearing gives you better than the original valor points did. Giving both would be stupid.