Patch 9.1 PTR - Torghast Perks Early Preview

[Somewhatconcerned]

Not sure why more resources are being poured into Torghast when everyone just wants to get their weekly ash and get out.

[Wangming]

Haha whatever dude. Continue fooling yourself

Right back at ya, buddy. It's quite entertaining in its weird way.

[thunderdragon2]

to me tier 5 looks very underwhelming compared to the rest

[Wheeler]

This looks like they are making it more like Horrific Visions. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I remember how terrible it felt to hop on an alt and not have the Tech Tree filled out for Visions.

I'll get ahead of it this time and just leave the sub cancelled lmao

[Djaye]

bandaid for a boring and crappy system. SL only gets worse and worse. Blizz is cluesless.

[Sting]

A talent tree isnt gonna save this feature

[luciano]

Nothing good drops here. Making it easier to complete pointless content doesn't make the content any less pointless.

[FelPlague]

"Adding a new mechanic to an existing system" is not "abandonment". It's literally the opposite of abandonment. This is like saying I abandoned my empty coffee cup because I poured coffee in it, absolute nonsense.

And the player base disliked 40-player raids once the novelty wore off, and the logistical nightmare of actually keeping a 40-player raid functional revealed its ugly head. Granted that took until BWL and Naxx to sink in, when boss mechanics required all 40 players to not be AFK and pushing more than one button the entire time.


Because they were near impossible to balance while maintaining some semblance of factional flavor and class fantasy, a large and vocal chunk of the player base hated it, and dev team resources were plain and simply better allocated elsewhere. Same goes for racial class skills. To the point the difference between SoV and SoB alone was the difference between Horde paladins being high-tier DPS/utility and in strong demand, and Alliance paladins relegated to heal and cleanse bots for another entire expansion cycle.

You can't say Blizzard "abandoned" something when, in fact, they were responding to the player base's criticisms of design choices.


Nobody tell this person the percentages were actually the same, and all Blizzard did was figure out increasing the level cap without some form of diminishing returns on deprecated gear, meant level 60 raid gear would still be BiS at least until starting level 70 raids, and trivially easy to obtain at level 70.


Apparently, deciding to clarify instanced content as being intended for a single party of five players as dungeons, and instanced content requiring more than one party as raids, is "abandonment".

Just, never mind that nearly every dungeon in vanilla WoW could originally be done with ten players. Never mind how players quickly figured out that wasn't necessary, and generally just ran everything but BRD, Strath, Scholo, and BRS as a single party...and if players were mostly in tier 0-0.5 gear, those could be done with a five-player party as well. And thus, Blizzard catered to community trend.

But I mean, what is a "raid" by this illogic, anyways? The need to attune? Players had to attune for the "dungeons" of BRD, Scholo, and UBRS. But I mean, I guess that's one thing Blizzard "abandoned" as well, multiple wings of a dungeon in the same instance? Because everyone who played vanilla WoW loved that and ran the entire dungeon from beginning to end every time, right?


I mean, other than unlocking a raid instance for the winning faction that was relatively simple and dropped tiered gear. And enabling an expansion-wide buff that allowed bosses to drop currency, that was traded for endgame recipes, crafting materials, enchants, gems, and heirlooms. But I mean it's technically accurate to what you said as Wintergrasp didn't buff everyone in the zone (I mean, except for Tenacity), it buffed everyone on the continent.

But other than that, nope, no effect on anyone who didn't participate in the PvP at all.


The queue-less PvP zone, that anyone could enter into from any point and at any time they desired and leave identically, which is pretty much the definition of open-world PvP.

Alright this is rather funny, but lets go over 1 at a time.

1."Adding new mechanics or systems is changing not abandonding" except they abandonded 40 man raids, they right out never ever used them again, so yes that is abandoning it. Nor is the rest of what you say true.

2. Just because it was difficult to balance does not mean its ok for them to remove it.

3. actually no, i dont think you know how stats works. In vanilla items gave a set % of crit or hit etc, so even if you got it while leveling and leveled up, it was always the same, and this meant some items were reaaaally good cause moving from 1% to 2% was huge. But then TBC made everything "ratings" like all the rest of the stats and just fucked it up.

4. they abandonded the 10 man dungeons, and that dungeons were just dungeons, by then adding difficulties to them. Also you literally needed 10 people to do UBRS, have you even fucking played vanilla? like holy shit.

5. "Endgame recipes crafting mats enchants gems and heirlooms" you fucking literally do not know how wintergrasp worked do ya? those recipes, enchants, etc etc were made for pvp, and were not even fucking close to "endgame" they were equal to 10 man, far weaker then 25 man loot.

6. LOLOL THE QUEUELESS-PVP ZONE? THAT YOU COULD ENTER AT ANY POINT AND LEAVE ANY POINT!?
you didnt play wrath of the lich king, this is painfully fucking obvious.
A. there was a qeueue for wintergrasp, if you did not get picked, even if you flew there in person you would get kicked out.
B. Unlike lets say the towers in hellfire peninsual, or in eastern plaguelands, you COULDNT just enter "at any time and pvp" cause the battle only happened every couple hours and only for about 15-30 minutes.


You could not just "enter at any time and pvp" and you could not just "go there and fight" you needed to get accepted, and also you needed to wait hours for a fight to begin.

- - - Updated - - -

to me tier 5 looks very underwhelming compared to the rest

idk man being able to reroll up to 3 anima choices is pretty great, we will also have to see what "empowering" is, because it seems to only come from elites, but this talent makes it able to happen from ANY mob.

[Aurrora]

Why are they bothering? Unless there's some additional gameplay loop for Torghast I don't see the point in spending more time on the weekly Soul Ash farm activity.

[Appelgren]

Right back at ya, buddy. It's quite entertaining in its weird way.

Atleast I’m not sitting on the forums for above mentioned games saying they’re trash and that I’m happy I stopped playing for the 100th time etc. That behavior if anything is super weird...

[Kathranis]

The issue with Torghast as a repeatable system isn't really that it lacks internal progression, it's that it's a one-way system that doesn't touch any other part of the game beyond Legendaries, and you really only need your BIS. It doesn't really matter how fun it is, if the only rewards is Soul Ash, WoW players won't want to keep going back in.

I think the changes they are making are good, mind you. When you play a roguelite, it's not about completing every run, it's about getting unique ability / weapon combos and progressing as far as you can, and then unlocking permanent upgrades that will help you progress farther in your next run. Shifting the focus from completing layers to getting stronger in Torghast is a step in the right direction.

What Torghast is lacking is rewards that make you want to keep doing that. You get your ilvl increases from outside of Torghast so, in part your Torghast progress is dictated by your raid/mythic/pvp/covenant progress (depending on your gear track). But you bring very little out of Torghast to the rest of WoW.

Cosmetics would be fine, but the cosmetics it currently offers aren't amazing -- especially compared to Mage Tower, Challenge Dungeons, or even Brawler's Guild, and you still need to progress your external gear track before you can progress higher Twisting Corridors layers.

Frankly, I feel like it should be a repeatable optional Anima source. That hooks it into a pretty robust cosmetic reward track with your covenant.

Though, I think ideally, it would have it's own robust rewards track with its own upgradable base and its own story campaign (maybe with lore to uncover in random rooms in addition to progress). And with that, transmog gear, mounts, and titles. Basically, give it its own Covenant system.

Honestly, the weapons and gear sets going into the 9.1 raid should have been rewards for progressing through Torghast.

[pewpmeiser]

*logs on to mmo-champion*
*sees new article*
*clicks comments*
yep -- just as toxic about absolutely anything in the game as ever

[Osmeric]

Why are they bothering?

SL's deck chairs won't rearrange themselves, my friend.

[craigw]

*logs on to mmo-champion*
*sees new article*
*clicks comments*
yep -- just as toxic about absolutely anything in the game as ever

nailed it!

[Th3Scourge]

They should cut their losses and focus on making 9.1 less shit. Torghast is the worst content they've introduced since island expeditions and warfronts

[froschhure]

There are still no rewards.... Visions gave you max ilvl with 5masks. Islands farmers dream, but this? Assets for diablo with no reward, but punishments???

[Alexeht]

why would you count it from 0?

[ashblond]

Just 1 question: Who the hell asked for this?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Just 1 question: Who the hell asked for this?

Well I can say I basically did. I wanted more permanent upgrades that help future runs.

[orney]

Well I can say I basically did. I wanted more permanent upgrades that help future runs.

Except they wont. Torments (akin to Horrific Visions masks) will make torghast as cancer as possible so these perks will only make it half as annoying.