Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[bledgor]

People also seem to think this automatically makes Elune at the Winter Queen's level. Elune could still be a first one/"god tier" power, she could be a much older sister (or maybe the Winter Queen/Elune weren't born in a typical sense, but are manifestations from the chaotic energy that makes up existence). Plenty of stories have much tougher/stronger siblings, no reason the Winter Queen isn't the weaker sibling of Elune.

[Goldielocks]

It's weird.

New lore clashing with old lore is how I see it. How exactly does Danuser give justice to a character that has been hyped up for the entirety of the game's lifetime while also keeping to his own vision? It's not easy. I'm going to assume that Eonar was the common thoery for this character because they believed Elune would be above a character that would be a part of any "council," like a Titan or the other Eternal Ones.

Personally, I prefer the idea that Elune has few or no equals. Being teased for a long time and all, it's only right she gets special treatment. Eonar in her weakened form stayed on a planet called Elunaria, which I take as Elune being above her in cosmic ranking (though it can just be a reference as well). I just don't like the idea that Elune can't fully save someone's soul I guess is another way of putting it.

Given the Winter's Queen general tone and the context, calling a powerful being such as Ysera a "pet," it's probably not meant to be taken completely literally. She's just remarking on Elune's hand in Ysera's current plight at the time - since Elune is responsible for her presence there, and Ysera's preservation required an act of sacrifice on the Queen's part (one that was apparently reluctantly done). There seems to be some kind of pre-existing acrimony between Elune and the Winter Queen, hence the Winter Queen's reluctance and her overall coldness.

Perhaps, but it's not a choice of words I would have gone with personally. When I think of a pet I think of an animal that I'd keep by my side, not unconscious and in a box. Of course, Eonar does not match this specifically either, but it still works better for this word.

[Aucald]

New lore clashing with old lore is how I see it. How exactly does Danuser give justice to a character that has been hyped up for the entirety of the game's lifetime while also keeping to his own vision? It's not easy. I'm going to assume that Eonar was the common thoery for this character because they believed Elune would be above a character that would be a part of any "council," like a Titan or the other Eternal Ones.

Personally, I prefer the idea that Elune has few or no equals. Being teased for a long time and all, it's only right she gets special treatment. Eonar in her weakened form stayed on a planet called Elunaria, which I take as Elune being above her in cosmic ranking (though it can just be a reference as well). I just don't like the idea that Elune can't fully save someone's soul I guess is another way of putting it.

The Winter Queen being the "sister" of Elune by no means quantifies, limits, or otherwise constrains Elune's possible power or her status or "tier" among Warcraft's greater pantheon of greater beings. We don't really know if their relationship is strictly familial (e.g. the share a mother, so to speak) or if it is entirely abstract or essential somehow. Presumably Elune could remove Tyrande's empowerment as the Night Warrior if she were so inclined, but apparently she either is not or cannot (which may be that she is too far removed, or perhaps entirely ignorant of Tyrande's plight). Eonar could presumably be the daughter of Elune in the same way the Winter Queen is her sister - they share some kind of relationship as beings that represent Life in the metacosm, not a familial relationship but an essential or existential one.

[Azadina]

None of this "nerfs" her. If anything, this kinda amps the Eternal Ones.

Hardly. We defeated one of them (denathrius), one has been taken captive (primus), one just got stabbed by mindcontrolled anduin (kyrestia). They seem very generic, and not much of the god/goddess level. Now Elune is just one of a dozen, rather than the goddess.

[Goldielocks]

The Winter Queen being the "sister" of Elune by no means quantifies, limits, or otherwise constrains Elune's possible power or her status or "tier" among Warcraft's greater pantheon of greater beings. We don't really know if their relationship is strictly familial (e.g. the share a mother, so to speak) or if it is entirely abstract or essential somehow. Presumably Elune could remove Tyrande's empowerment as the Night Warrior if she were so inclined, but apparently she either is not or cannot (which may be that she is too far removed, or perhaps entirely ignorant of Tyrande's plight). Eonar could presumably be the daughter of Elune in the same way the Winter Queen is her sister - they share some kind of relationship as beings that represent Life in the metacosm, not a familial relationship but an essential or existential one.

Shadowlands already did this by having Elune's saving of Ysera put her inside a cocoon. I'm not sure why this doesn't speak for itself. Someone above The Winter Queen would not need The Winter Queen.

[Ielenia]

Elune is the Winter Queen's sister. Sadly I think this confirms she's not a First One. There goes my theory.

When you bring Ysera's seed to the Winter Queen during the leveling experience, she calls Ysera "her sister's pet" (or something like that) so since that moment we knew that Elune was Ysera's sister.

[Aucald]

Shadowlands already did this by having Elune's saving of Ysera put her inside a cocoon. I'm not sure why this doesn't speak for itself. Someone above The Winter Queen would not need The Winter Queen.

Elune has always been the most inscrutable of WoW's greater powers - there may be other reasons why Elune elected to do this. Perhaps she expected the Winter Queen to do as she did, using her power to bind Ysera to Ardenweald. Perhaps Elune was aware of Ardenweald's situation and knew the Winter Queen would need a powerful weapon to confront its many enemies (which Ysera definitely serves as during the Mawsworn attack). We can't really know the why of it, but nothing of the choice really constrains Elune's power or sets her "tier" at or below the Winter Queen's. It may be that Elune merely saved Ysera's life and purged her corruption, and Ysera's later appearance in Ardenweald was more or less a natural outcome (her connection to the Emerald Dream basically giving her a place in Ardenweald by default), unlike her Aspect siblings.

[Rozz]

It isn't a needless distinction. She cares for them BECAUSE they are druids and so directly related to her aspect (watching over nature) given to her by Eonar and the realm she watches over (the Dream) assigned to her by Eonar. NOT because they are worshippers of Elune. How is that a needless distinction? You might as well pretend that the reason the Blood Elves went Horde was "because the Horde uses the color red!" The fact that they worship Elune is completely irrelevant to why Ysera likes the Night Elves, the fact that she is a direct servant of Eonar is the foundation of her association with them.


They aren't three of anything. It's ONE thing, my guy. Eonar was there for the start of Ysera's life, AND her ascendence into an Aspect, AND is her ongoing employer. The majority of her duty is intertwined with, for the nth time, people serving the WILDS not Elune. Hence why 99.9% of the people she interacts with are druids. Elune wasn't "there at the end" she showed up for literally 15 seconds after Ysera was mortally wounded.

I don't care about it being Elune or not, though it's a dumb bit of writing given what Elune has been depicted as so far. It was just completely retarded to describe Ysera as Elune's pet, when in every possible sense of the word she is Eonar's. If your dog/cat gets terminally sick and you take it to the vet where it's put to sleep, is it suddenly the veterinarian's pet? No. Of course it isn't. Nor does your dog suddenly become your "neighbor's dog" if it starts hanging out with and taking care of their dog in your yard.

It is needless because you're going in deeper than you needed to and making distinctions that don't dismiss anything that the clues gave. None of what you wrote means that Elune couldn't be an option, it's just an argument for why Eonar could fit just as well--and as you feel: fit better. And while I disagree with some of your post even that doesn't matter, because my point is that as shallow as the reasons were (hence my original comment of recency bias, quests, and aesthetic design), Elune was a natural suspect too.

Think back to the boy of light and shadow nonsense, or the ring of stars. I've come to expect the easiest/most recent character reference to fit the bill and it usually does for better or worse. And in this case, that was exactly what happened.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

When you bring Ysera's seed to the Winter Queen during the leveling experience, she calls Ysera "her sister's pet" (or something like that) so since that moment we knew that Elune was Ysera's sister.

Wrong, we speculated who her sister was and Elune was one speculation at the time.

[Goldielocks]

Elune has always been the most inscrutable of WoW's greater powers - there may be other reasons why Elune elected to do this. Perhaps she expected the Winter Queen to do as she did, using her power to bind Ysera to Ardenweald. Perhaps Elune was aware of Ardenweald's situation and knew the Winter Queen would need a powerful weapon to confront its many enemies (which Ysera definitely serves as during the Mawsworn attack). We can't really know the why of it, but nothing of the choice really constrains Elune's power or sets her "tier" at or below the Winter Queen's. It may be that Elune merely saved Ysera's life and purged her corruption, and Ysera's later appearance in Ardenweald was more or less a natural outcome (her connection to the Emerald Dream basically giving her a place in Ardenweald by default), unlike her Aspect siblings.

For the on-purpose point: she forced TWQ to give up some of herself to restore Ysera, so Ysera could defend Ardenweald? That's a good thing? This is just really dumb lmao

There's no need for a natural outcome when you're Elune, since you're Elune. Ysera isn't some random. She deserves the special treatment honestly.

Gunna go with Occam's Razor on this one. Elune doesn't have influence over death. She literally cannot restore Ysera in the Shadowlands. Beyond her power.

[huth]

Elune has always been the most inscrutable of WoW's greater powers - there may be other reasons why Elune elected to do this. Perhaps she expected the Winter Queen to do as she did, using her power to bind Ysera to Ardenweald. Perhaps Elune was aware of Ardenweald's situation and knew the Winter Queen would need a powerful weapon to confront its many enemies (which Ysera definitely serves as during the Mawsworn attack). We can't really know the why of it, but nothing of the choice really constrains Elune's power or sets her "tier" at or below the Winter Queen's. It may be that Elune merely saved Ysera's life and purged her corruption, and Ysera's later appearance in Ardenweald was more or less a natural outcome (her connection to the Emerald Dream basically giving her a place in Ardenweald by default), unlike her Aspect siblings.

For that matter, we know little about what the WQ's normal powerlevel is when she isn't drained from keeping her realm alive during a drought while being attacked by both Drust and the Jailer's stooges.

- - - Updated - - -

For the on-purpose point: she forced TWQ to give up some of herself to restore Ysera, so Ysera could defend Ardenweald? That's a good thing? This is just really dumb lmao

There's no need for a natural outcome when you're Elune, since you're Elune. Ysera isn't some random. She deserves the special treatment honestly.

Gunna go with Occam's Razor on this one. Elune doesn't have influence over death. She literally cannot restore Ysera in the Shadowlands. Beyond her power.

Well, it also got her to stop trying to turtle up and wait things out, which would ultimately only have left them to wither away inevitably, to weak to actually fight back.

You're not really using Occam's there. You're adding the assumption that this is beyond Elune, which isn't any better than assuming that she just didn't for some unknown reason. Your way isn't simpler.

[ohwell]

People also seem to think this automatically makes Elune at the Winter Queen's level. Elune could still be a first one/"god tier" power, she could be a much older sister (or maybe the Winter Queen/Elune weren't born in a typical sense, but are manifestations from the chaotic energy that makes up existence). Plenty of stories have much tougher/stronger siblings, no reason the Winter Queen isn't the weaker sibling of Elune.

Not with the way she mentions her sister the times we've heard it. If she was more powerful she'd refer to her a little more reverently rather than what seems to be an almost bitter comment the first time and now a relatively embracing comment, it would seem they're pretty similar if anything.

[Feanoro]

uuuuugggghhhh, Elune was said to be the only true god that we knew of in the WoW universe, why are they retconning it!

Because Danuser is jealous of Metzen, systematically ruining everything with bad fanfiction tier writing to supplant it with his own.

Unfortunately for him, he has no creativity whatsoever. (Remember, the theme of SL is "X but more Xy!" First Ones, Titans but more Titany! Maldraxas, Scourge but more Scourgey! And so on.)

Elune under Metzen was the sole confirmed deity, rarely directly intervening but spectacularly when it happened. Much like how continuity and existing lore is viewed as a constraint on the current "writers", having an actual deity would force them to answer why she doesn't intervene this time.

[Goldielocks]

You're not really using Occam's there. You're adding the assumption that this is beyond Elune, which isn't any better than assuming that she just didn't for some unknown reason. Your way isn't simpler.

No? That implies she restored Ysera in an incomplete form on purpose. That's absurd. Beyond absurd lmao

[Couchpotato2013]

Always was sort of hoping elune was a rogue void lord that turned good (some sort of realization, and especially since the night warrior has quite a few void themed attacks as we can see with tyrande) and then happened to assimilate light/arcane/nature into her being. Then spreading a positive message throughout the universe but still being chaotic.

[gaymer77]

Elune in 9.2 to bitch slap Tyrande and take back the Night Warrior power. More at 11 on Fox 25 News!

One can only hope. That or Tyrande is the final boss of Shadowlands and she die dies unlike Jaina, Sylvanas, and the gnome guy....

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Not with the way she mentions her sister the times we've heard it. If she was more powerful she'd refer to her a little more reverently rather than what seems to be an almost bitter comment the first time and now a relatively embracing comment, it would seem they're pretty similar if anything.

It could very well be that she’s bitter because Elune is so much more powerful and instead of sticking around and using that power she left.

[DemonHunter18]

LMAO garbage.

Because Danuser is jealous of Metzen, systematically ruining everything with bad fanfiction tier writing to supplant it with his own.

Unfortunately for him, he has no creativity whatsoever. (Remember, the theme of SL is "X but more Xy!" First Ones, Titans but more Titany! Maldraxas, Scourge but more Scourgey! And so on.)

Elune under Metzen was the sole confirmed deity, rarely directly intervening but spectacularly when it happened. Much like how continuity and existing lore is viewed as a constraint on the current "writers", having an actual deity would force them to answer why she doesn't intervene this time.

So much this.

It's just another garbage made up by Betanuser and Goldvanas with the Old lore is constraining and It's not the story we wanted to tell excuse.

It's funny how Elune was this big mysterious Goddess all this time but now, they made up on the spot some weaklings called Eternal Ones and they just contribute her nature... to them lol.

And I chuckled when someone said that Betanuser isn't bad.

He is one of the worst lead narratives on the planet.

[Alanar]

Hardly. We defeated one of them (denathrius), one has been taken captive (primus), one just got stabbed by mindcontrolled anduin (kyrestia). They seem very generic, and not much of the god/goddess level. Now Elune is just one of a dozen, rather than the goddess.

Nah that is what you make of it. We dont know shit yet realy. For all we know Elune could have been born way earlier and hold much more power.

[DemonHunter18]

OK, you lads got me. If the quest is referring to a Tear of Elune, which isn't the Tear of Elune that we've had in game for 5 years, but some secret Tear of Elune that is also a Tear of Elune but not the Tear of Elune we already know of, I'm willing to concede that I may be referring to another, albeit the original, Tear of Elune and the quest is referring to a new, intentionally confusingly named other item called the Tear of Elune. But realize that would be like having a quest text saying "Get Aluneth", but not that Aluneth, the new Aluneth which has no lore or context behind it other than the fact that it is called Aluneth.

LMAO thanks man.

I haven't laughed like this in a while