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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Well, this reveal APPARENTLY depowers her, even though I don't think that's the case. But when you see how many people are upset that she isn't the cosmic god you see the issue.

    A lot of people wanted her to be the biggest greatest goddess but if that was the case then yeah, Horde bad, Night Elves best, etc. And I know a lot of people would enjoy that but Blizz clearly doesn't want to go that route.

    Horde wouldn't even HAVE an Elune race aside from tentatively Nightborne and Tauren, who don't even like the moon that much. Meanwhile Alliance has two that are integrally tied to Elune. She can't be the center of the lore or the game becomes World of Alliancecraft even harder than it already is.
    That's more the fault of the bad WoW writers. That in an attempt to replace the vagueness with which they dealt with the Kaldorei issues and that they are still one of their most iconic races, even if they don't like it.
    They seem to solve everything by giving it more power without plot.
    (or so I see it)

    In W3 Malfuerion was not stronger than Trall and Elune was just another "goddess".
    At that level of power Elune could be only of the Kaldorei without automatically returning the bad guys to the Horde.

    Now that elune is the "older" goddess, the Horde are the bad guys, no matter how much Elune comes out and kills the Kaldorei. There is still Cenarius.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    That's more the fault of the bad WoW writers. That in an attempt to replace the vagueness with which they dealt with the Kaldorei issues and that they are still one of their most iconic races, even if they don't like it.
    They seem to solve everything by giving it more power without plot.
    (or so I see it)

    In W3 Malfuerion was not stronger than Trall and Elune was just another "goddess".
    At that level of power Elune could be only of the Kaldorei without automatically returning the bad guys to the Horde.

    Now that elune is the "older" goddess, the Horde are the bad guys, no matter how much Elune comes out and kills the Kaldorei. There is still Cenarius.
    Ironically this is what we seem to have returned to. It's just that it's one of the things that is more W3 than it is WoW.

  3. #183
    "BUT IN WC3, MALFURION WAS-"

    In Warcraft 3...

    This is years after WC3, and things have grown, we've seen more shit, and Elune's identity has been revealed.

  4. #184
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    This is years after WC3, and things have grown, we've seen more shit, and Elune's identity has been revealed.
    Eh, I wouldn't go that far. We know that the Winter Queen considers Elune her sister, sure; but that *all* we know. We have still to this day neither directly observed or even heard Elune. We've no idea what she looks like, sounds like, nor anything about her personality that's not a matter of inference. Elune's identity is pretty far from known, IMO.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Eh, I wouldn't go that far. We know that the Winter Queen considers Elune her sister, sure; but that *all* we know. We have still to this day neither directly observed or even heard Elune. We've no idea what she looks like, sounds like, nor anything about her personality that's not a matter of inference. Elune's identity is pretty far from known, IMO.
    The fact that she is close enough to a pantheon god to be considered a "sister" is what has created this tizzy. People think it both disrespects the titans (no mention of Eonar, who made Ysera) AND depowers Elune from a potential creationist to just another pantheon god.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Eh, I wouldn't go that far. We know that the Winter Queen considers Elune her sister, sure; but that *all* we know. We have still to this day neither directly observed or even heard Elune. We've no idea what she looks like, sounds like, nor anything about her personality that's not a matter of inference. Elune's identity is pretty far from known, IMO.
    I guess. From what is confirmed, I would assume she's part of a Pantheon. Either she's an Eternal, or a being of Life. That's basically all I can really get from this tbh.

  7. #187
    Highly disappointed if true. Elune being just another pantheon/eternal one. I was hoping she was the be all godess in the Warcraft Universe.

    At least let us see her soon then. She better be hot, and not Princess Theradras lookalike.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The fact that she is close enough to a pantheon god to be considered a "sister" is what has created this tizzy. People think it both disrespects the titans (no mention of Eonar, who made Ysera) AND depowers Elune from a potential creationist to just another pantheon god.
    Eonar likely has connections to Elune aswell, the same way the Prime Naaru do, so who cares? And nothing is depowering Elune. If anything, this powers up the Eternal Ones, since this supposedly mighty goddess is the sister of the Winter Queen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Highly disappointed if true. Elune being just another pantheon/eternal one. I was hoping she was the be all godess in the Warcraft Universe.

    At least let us see her soon then. She better be hot, and not Princess Theradras lookalike.
    "All goddess"

    Imagine ignoring the existence of the First Ones...

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "All goddess"

    Imagine ignoring the existence of the First Ones...
    Imagine assuming shit.

  10. #190
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    Honestly, Eonar is probably the reason why Elune knows titan words to begin with.


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  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Ironically this is what we seem to have returned to. It's just that it's one of the things that is more W3 than it is WoW.
    The problem is, Thrall is alone now. Vs
    Malfurion, Velen, Tyrande, Anduin, Jaina, Maiev.
    PS well he has Talanji and Voljin let's say?

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "BUT IN WC3, MALFURION WAS-"

    In Warcraft 3...

    This is years after WC3, and things have grown, we've seen more shit, and Elune's identity has been revealed.
    I mean:
    Malfurion / Tyrande / Elune is so strong that he can beat the Horde alone but he cannot defend Teldrazill.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Imagine assuming shit.
    She's never been an all goddess, and multiple factors have the First Ones as the top deities of WoW. So, idk what to tell ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Honestly, Eonar is probably the reason why Elune knows titan words to begin with.
    Basically. I also always loved the idea that Elune used her Life stuff to aid the Light and Order, hence the Eonar stuff + the Prime Naaru. Would also explain why she's called "upstart" by the Void and "vexing" by her own sister. Would also explain why her sister would feel "abandoned/left out" as a result.

  13. #193
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    The fact that she is close enough to a pantheon god to be considered a "sister" is what has created this tizzy. People think it both disrespects the titans (no mention of Eonar, who made Ysera) AND depowers Elune from a potential creationist to just another pantheon god.
    I think it falls under the auspices of "you can't miss what you never had" for me. We never knew and still don't know Elune's nature - what she is, what her upper limits are, and where she falls in the cosmology are all equally unknown. The Winter Queen not mentioning Eonar isn't really disrespect insofar as I can reckon, she feels the touch of Elune on Ysera and recognizes her sister's involvement, and that's pretty much all. Elune hasn't been "de-powered" in any sense I can gather, and beyond the fact that she has some kind of relationship with the Winter Queen she remains as elusive and unknown as she always was.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think it falls under the auspices of "you can't miss what you never had" for me. We never knew and still don't know Elune's nature - what she is, what her upper limits are, and where she falls in the cosmology are all equally unknown. The Winter Queen not mentioning Eonar isn't really disrespect insofar as I can reckon, she feels the touch of Elune on Ysera and recognizes her sister's involvement, and that's pretty much all. Elune hasn't been "de-powered" in any sense I can gather, and beyond the fact that she has some kind of relationship with the Winter Queen she remains as elusive and unknown as she always was.
    Imagine if 9.2 is about the Jailer's invasion on Azeroth and all existence, and we learn that Elune is part of the Pantheon of Life, and we have to get her and the other Pantheon member's aid in order to help slap the Jailer from existence once and for all.

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    Like in 9.2, Elune and the WQ fuckin' meet up and we see her for the first time. Bruuuhhhh

  15. #195
    idk why people are upset that elune isnt some supreme overlord of everything.
    this was NEVER even implied, except for that one small side comment about her being a true goddess. if i had a cent for every one of those comments from blizz that didnt turn out to be true, id have bobby koticks salary by now.
    elune has never shown any really outstanding power, neither in WC3 nor in WOW, and also hasnt done anythig herself, except shagging a stag.

    whats truly annoying about this whole thing is that its yet another "mystery" casually revealed and ruined.
    the story used to be fun bc of the many unknown elements, places and creatures that got people to theorize. but blizz has been using all of that up pretty rapidly, and (more importantly) with pretty dissapointing reveals, the last couple of addons.
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  16. #196
    BROOOO!!! IMAGINE! Elune and the Winter Queen Vs The Jailer! Personifications of Nature's Cycles Vs The Personification of Death and Eternal Darkness Himself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    idk why people are upset that elune isnt some supreme overlord of everything.
    this was NEVER even implied, except for that one small side comment about her being a true goddess. if i had a cent for every one of those comments from blizz that didnt turn out to be true, id have bobby koticks salary by now.
    elune has never shown any really outstanding power, neither in WC3 nor in WOW, and also hasnt done THAT much overall in lore, except shagging a stag.

    whats truly annoying about this whole thing is that its yet another "mystery" casually revealed and ruined.
    the story used to be fun bc of the many unknown elements, places and creatures that got people to theorize. but blizz has been using all of that up pretty rapidly, and (more importantly) with pretty dissapointing reveals, the last couple of addons.
    She's actually pretty powerful, as she made Ysera into a constellation when she died. But I agree with you there. :P

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    BROOOO!!! IMAGINE! Elune and the Winter Queen Vs The Jailer! Personifications of Nature's Cycles Vs The Personification of Death and Eternal Darkness Himself!

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    She's actually pretty powerful, as she made Ysera into a constellation when she died. But I agree with you there. :P
    all right, ill give u the constellation. still tho. in chronicles, even the damn titans are depicted as constellations in one picture.
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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think it falls under the auspices of "you can't miss what you never had" for me. We never knew and still don't know Elune's nature - what she is, what her upper limits are, and where she falls in the cosmology are all equally unknown. The Winter Queen not mentioning Eonar isn't really disrespect insofar as I can reckon, she feels the touch of Elune on Ysera and recognizes her sister's involvement, and that's pretty much all. Elune hasn't been "de-powered" in any sense I can gather, and beyond the fact that she has some kind of relationship with the Winter Queen she remains as elusive and unknown as she always was.
    There is one part i'm a bit perplexed on, Freya who is empowered by Eonar, creates (or shapes) the Emerald Dream, Ysera is then empowered by Eonar to be the Emerald Dreams caretaker but Ysera is also connected to Elune and the Emerald Dream has some connection to Ardenweald, theres like Six degrees of separation here between all of these Eternals who are conncted to nature.

    We know Wild Gods are connected to the Emerald Dream and Wild Gods exist on other planets (not nessessarily Titan worldsouls) and Wild Gods are connected to Ardenweald since thats where they go to be reborn.

    Maybe Eonar is also related Elune in some manner, theres few things that imply a connection (Elunaria being the world Eonar took refuge on)

    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    idk why people are upset that elune isnt some supreme overlord of everything.
    this was NEVER even implied, except for that one small side comment about her being a true goddess. if i had a cent for every one of those comments from blizz that didnt turn out to be true, id have bobby koticks salary by now.
    elune has never shown any really outstanding power, neither in WC3 nor in WOW, and also hasnt done anythig herself, except shagging a stag.
    Frankly the more loses and nerfs the Night Elves took the less "all powerful" Elune seemed, now it's even known that Elune worship isn't all that special since there are at least 3 other former Night Warriors.
    Last edited by Imperator4321; 2021-04-30 at 04:00 PM.

  19. #199
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator4321 View Post
    I get the feeling Elune will be made part of the Pantheon of Life (Wild Gods seem to numerous and less powerful to be the Life equivalent of the Titans/Eternal Ones) makes sense to me to put the two sisters on the opposite pantheons (and from what little we know the Winter Queen and Elunes "relationship" seems strained), either that or the Light.
    Possibly but we've yet to have any indication or even confirmation one exists. I mean I don't doubt that the writers are going that way considering they were content to establish the Eternal Ones as 'just like the Titans but better/more ancienter' before then immediately following with the introduction of 'The First Ones' with no substance beyond being higher than others, multiple members and having seniority via existing before other things all along and it would be easy for them just to extrapolate the same structural concept to other cosmic elements with the long touted 'just because you(read we) didn't know they existed doesn't mean they didn't exist before now' to cover their asses and any mistaken attempts to ground the universe with a comprehensive unbiased perspective can be retconned at any point to have always been a flawed, uniformed take on things.

    But until then, they are presently working to ground their new Pantheons using existing godlike entities such as Elune and the Wild Gods and attributing artifacts and actions as means of expositioning on relations and familial relations between them. I mean until we know that the relation of brother and sister extend beyond their own pantheon it seems they are establishing that Elune 'has always been' an Eternal One and the existence of Night Warriors being on multiple planets and the Eonar's Titan Pillar of Creation Tear of Elune being related to that transformation and it's subsequent purification suggests she has far too much in common with the mysterious moon god to be entirely separate from one and another. Especially when it was far more vague in Legion and the Tear of Elune caused in-universe speculation that Elune had some hand in the creation of the Naaru, involvement with the Titan Pantheon while also being the Moon Goddess who existed as defender and spiritual icon of the one race that worships preservation of Nature.

    As for the Wild Gods and their standing in the force of Cosmic Life as protectors and supporters of nature, we do have to question if that is even canon anymore. With the reveal that the Titan's don't know everything so whatever is from the Chronicle could be wrong at any moment due their 'misinformed perspective' (read the writers retconning whatever they want) and that 'things of a cosmic element go back to their origin', the fact the Wild Gods return to not only the Emerald Dream which exists localised to Azeroth but then are revealed to also go further on to Ardenweald when they 'die' only to start a process rejuvenation and rebirth before returning to life, much like the Loa are revealed to do now instead of eventually regaining their power through worship, shouldn't we question if Nature is actually a part of Death if they aren't going back to the Realm of Life (if it exists)? Though there is the issue that we haven't got a confirmation on the Emerald Dream and it's purpose or creation and how that factors in the cosmic kaleidoscope mess.

    But coming back to the main point, they might introduce a Life Pantheon and then they might place Elune on it as 'always having been a part of them' just as 'the Winter Queen has always been her sister' but until we get a confirmation all we have is really confused conflation between Elune and Eonar with regards to the Night Elves, the Tear of Elune, Ysera, Elune Worship on multiple planets, The Night Warrior ritual and transformation, Elunaria, Ardenweald, The moon and The Winter Queen's dialogue. I mean it might turn out they are still separate characters but I wouldn't put it past the writers to do it as means of fixing their narrative mistakes so far and 'grounding' the Winter Queen in the story.
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  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    all right, ill give u the constellation. still tho. in chronicles, even the damn titans are depicted as constellations in one picture.
    I think the Chronicle pic was more-so an exaggeration of the Titans and their vast reach, but then AGAIN...Sargeras was an Astral Cloud throughout most of 7.3, and Blizzard's also made multiple stuff showing them as constellations, so who knows.

    Can also just mean Elune is of similar levels to the Titans, since she can do stuff similar to them in a way, the same way the WQ can do similar stuff aswell. It's possible Elune aided Eonar with Life shit and whatnot, and as a sense of gratitude, she used one of her tears as a Pillar of Creation for the Titans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    Possibly but we've yet to have any indication or even confirmation one exists. I mean I don't doubt that the writers are going that way considering they were content to establish the Eternal Ones as 'just like the Titans but better/more ancienter' before then immediately following with the introduction of 'The First Ones' with no substance beyond being higher than others, multiple members and having seniority via existing before other things all along and it would be easy for them just to extrapolate the same structural concept to other cosmic elements with the long touted 'just because you(read we) didn't know they existed doesn't mean they didn't exist before now' to cover their asses and any mistaken attempts to ground the universe with a comprehensive unbiased perspective can be retconned at any point to have always been a flawed, uniformed take on things.

    But until then, they are presently working to ground their new Pantheons using existing godlike entities such as Elune and the Wild Gods and attributing artifacts and actions as means of expositioning on relations and familial relations between them. I mean until we know that the relation of brother and sister extend beyond their own pantheon it seems they are establishing that Elune 'has always been' an Eternal One and the existence of Night Warriors being on multiple planets and the Eonar's Titan Pillar of Creation Tear of Elune being related to that transformation and it's subsequent purification suggests she has far too much in common with the mysterious moon god to be entirely separate from one and another. Especially when it was far more vague in Legion and the Tear of Elune caused in-universe speculation that Elune had some hand in the creation of the Naaru, involvement with the Titan Pantheon while also being the Moon Goddess who existed as defender and spiritual icon of the one race that worships preservation of Nature.

    As for the Wild Gods and their standing in the force of Cosmic Life as protectors and supporters of nature, we do have to question if that is even canon anymore. With the reveal that the Titan's don't know everything so whatever is from the Chronicle could be wrong at any moment due their 'misinformed perspective' (read the writers retconning whatever they want) and that 'things of a cosmic element go back to their origin', the fact the Wild Gods return to not only the Emerald Dream which exists localised to Azeroth but then are revealed to also go further on to Ardenweald when they 'die' only to start a process rejuvenation and rebirth before returning to life, much like the Loa are revealed to do now instead of eventually regaining their power through worship, shouldn't we question if Nature is actually a part of Death if they aren't going back to the Realm of Life (if it exists)? Though there is the issue that we haven't got a confirmation on the Emerald Dream and it's purpose or creation and how that factors in the cosmic kaleidoscope mess.

    But coming back to the main point, they might introduce a Life Pantheon and then they might place Elune on it as 'always having been a part of them' just as 'the Winter Queen has always been her sister' but until we get a confirmation all we have is really confused conflation between Elune and Eonar with regards to the Night Elves, the Tear of Elune, Ysera, Elune Worship on multiple planets, The Night Warrior ritual and transformation, Elunaria, Ardenweald, The moon and The Winter Queen's dialogue. I mean it might turn out they are still separate characters but I wouldn't put it past the writers to do it as means of fixing their narrative mistakes so far and 'grounding' the Winter Queen in the story.
    Yet to have any indication? Bro, Elune fucked Malorne and made Cenarius, Elune has LOTS of connections with Life and Light, Elune's presence is also hinted at a ton in the Dream, Ardenweald, and Eonar's sanctuary world called ELUNaria.

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN "NO INDICATION"!?!?!

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