Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[draynay]

i think everyones just had their "i hate repub" mode on for so long that even the barest suggestion that they might be redeemable makes them see red.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Egomaniac]

i think everyones just had their "i hate repub" mode on for so long that even the barest suggestion that they might be redeemable makes them see red. the dems are trying different tactics than they have been so far, and i think its a good thing that should continue. before it was just a kind of flailing about.

seems to be flying over most people's heads anyways.

They might be redeemable...but that's only if they WANT to redeem themselves.

[Edge-]

i think everyones just had their "i hate repub" mode on for so long that even the barest suggestion that they might be redeemable makes them see red.

I mean, I think we're all waiting for an inkling of that. Because between McCarthy still trying to whitewash the Jan. 6 insurrection, Greene and Gaetz trying to form the White Supremacy Caucus, Ted Cruz using his daughters as a dishonest shield while he fled the state in a disaster, Ron Johnson (I think) insinuating that Biden isn't "really in charge" because he doesn't tweet insane shit, Mo Brooks backing the "SPANISH COMPANY TABULATING VOTES ON GERMAN SERVERS AND THERE WAS A GUNFIGHT BETWEEN THE CIA AND THE US MILITARY!", and the general caucus being on board with The Big Steal lie, we're not holding our breath.

Because we'd die of a lack of oxygen.

But hey, at least the Green New Deal won't force us to drink plant based beer. Which is like, how just about all alcohol is made from save some fermented milk products.

[starlord]

I mean, I think we're all waiting for an inkling of that. Because between McCarthy still trying to whitewash the Jan. 6 insurrection, Greene and Gaetz trying to form the White Supremacy Caucus, Ted Cruz using his daughters as a dishonest shield while he fled the state in a disaster, Ron Johnson (I think) insinuating that Biden isn't "really in charge" because he doesn't tweet insane shit, Mo Brooks backing the "SPANISH COMPANY TABULATING VOTES ON GERMAN SERVERS AND THERE WAS A GUNFIGHT BETWEEN THE CIA AND THE US MILITARY!", and the general caucus being on board with The Big Steal lie, we're not holding our breath.

Because we'd die of a lack of oxygen.

But hey, at least the Green New Deal won't force us to drink plant based beer. Which is like, how just about all alcohol is made from save some fermented milk products.

i don't think gaetz will last the year & the party has been trying to quietly sideline greene since about she was elected. cruz is from, well, texas. also interesting to note that the other 2 are relatively recent post tea party additions as well. theres a lot of infighting amongst repubs right now and much depends on who comes out on top.

[Benggaul]

All joking aside, I just had to skip like the last 3 pages because of nothing to read but back and forth like when dealing with the libertarian stuff that Rozz had to stop and redirect.

Samesies, and it's why I've been keeping my COVID updates to the Trump thread even though they probably should go here now. At least in the Trump thread they might get read. Here they'll just be absorbed in the spam.

[Edge-]

i don't think gaetz will last the year & the party has been trying to quietly sideline greene since about she was elected.

Yet the party is still standing by both members.

cruz is from, well, texas.

What relevance does this have?

theres a lot of infighting amongst repubs right now and much depends on who comes out on top.

Infighting that's leading to dysfunction. There's infighting amongst the Democrats with their centrist and progressive wings, but it hasn't hamstrung them because they remain a functional political party.

[Shadowferal]

ding ding, thats the point.

So instead of the party of rotten shits that the gop has become, you want the party that's getting things accomplished to drag their feet..and not get anything done, serving the GOP interests just fine.

[starlord]

Yet the party is still standing by both members.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...cringes-464170
officially, so far. but i don't think she'd get much protection or help.

What relevance does this have?

cant think of the last non nutty senator from texas, being from there myself.

Infighting that's leading to dysfunction. There's infighting amongst the Democrats with their centrist and progressive wings, but it hasn't hamstrung them because they remain a functional political party.

right, and its important that dems keep a good balance in their party so as to not end up that way.

- - - Updated - - -

So instead of the party of rotten shits that the gop has become, you want the party that's getting things accomplished to drag their feet..and not get anything done, serving the GOP interests just fine.

what are they really getting done though? bidens been able to undo a lot of what trump did already because it got very little bipartisan support and theres no real consequence for it.
the biggest thing was the supreme court, which was a really long play with kind of a lot of really good luck on repubs part.

[Edge-]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...cringes-464170
officially, so far. but i don't think she'd get much protection or help.

Note: They still haven't done anything about her yet. Also note: There's a big lack of elected Republicans even willing to talk about her and condemn her. The only time they did was with her white supremacist caucus, but leadership still has not rejected her extremism. I guess they need to wait a few decades like they did with Steve King.

cant think of the last non nutty senator from texas, being from there myself.

Which, if anything, should be a condemnation on the state of the Republican party, and specifically the Republican party in Texas. Not something you just handwave away "because Texas".

right, and its important that dems keep a good balance in their party so as to not end up that way.

That's not at risk here, there are no warning signs about this and if anything, they're actually doing a great job with it - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-expectations

[starlord]

Note: They still haven't done anything about her yet. Also note: There's a big lack of elected Republicans even willing to talk about her and condemn her. The only time they did was with her white supremacist caucus, but leadership still has not rejected her extremism. I guess they need to wait a few decades like they did with Steve King.

its difficult when shes currently so popular among the electorate. could backlash very heavily and we'd get even more of her.

Which, if anything, should be a condemnation on the state of the Republican party, and specifically the Republican party in Texas. Not something you just handwave away "because Texas".

thats pretty much what i meant. i don't think its likely to change much in the near future either.

That's not at risk here, there are no warning signs about this and if anything, they're actually doing a great job with it - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e-expectations

yea, i was a little worried during the primaries but so far things have worked out alright.

[Edge-]

its difficult when shes currently so popular among the electorate. could backlash very heavily and we'd get even more of her.

She ran unopposed, they literally just need to find a Republican with a brain to run against her to see if they're being held hostage by their extremist base or not.

That has nothing to do with say, stripping her from her committee's which they can absolutely do. If that's too much because they're terrified of the response from their extremist base on a national level, that's a separate fuckin problem. And nothing Democrats can do a thing about.

It's not "difficult", any more than disciplining Steve King for his decades of bigotry, racism, extreme islamophobia, and unapologetic defense of white supremacy was "difficult". You just need to find a spine, which apparently is hard to come by in the Republican caucus.

yea, i was a little worried during the primaries but so far things have worked out alright.

Thankfully despite their differences, the Democratic party remains a functional political party with a coherent ideology, capable of withstanding disagreements and differences without devolving into accusations of "DINO" and savage attacks.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...by-border-wall

Good news, we're still picking up the pieces after Trump and actually trying to protect Americans from the dangerously irresponsible actions of the prior administration.

The Biden administration said Friday that it will begin work to address the risks of flooding and soil erosion from unfinished sections of the wall on the U.S. border with Mexico and will cancel military-funded contracts as it shuts down one of President Donald Trump’s signature domestic projects.

Construction under the Trump administration “blew large holes” into the flood barrier system of low-lying regions in Texas’ Rio Grande Valley, the Homeland Security Department said. It said it will “quickly repair” the flood barrier system without extending the wall.

Hidalgo County, Texas, officials have expressed alarm about flooding risks during the hurricane season starting in June from breaches in a levee system after Biden halted border wall construction immediately upon taking office in January.

The department said it would also fix “improper compaction of soil and construction materials” along parts of a 14-mile (22.4-kilometer) barrier in San Diego and soon unveil plans to address additional damage from border wall construction during Trump’s presidency. The San Diego wall is largely in unpopulated stretches in areas restricted to Border Patrol agents.

Biden ordered a pause on all wall construction on his first day office, leaving billions of dollars of work unfinished — but still under contract — after Trump worked feverishly last year to build more than 450 miles (720 kilometers), a goal he said he achieved eight days before leaving office.

This needs to happen.

[starlord]

She ran unopposed, they literally just need to find a Republican with a brain to run against her to see if they're being held hostage by their extremist base or not.

That has nothing to do with say, stripping her from her committee's which they can absolutely do. If that's too much because they're terrified of the response from their extremist base on a national level, that's a separate fuckin problem. And nothing Democrats can do a thing about.

It's not "difficult", any more than disciplining Steve King for his decades of bigotry, racism, extreme islamophobia, and unapologetic defense of white supremacy was "difficult". You just need to find a spine, which apparently is hard to come by in the Republican caucus.

absolutely they should kick her out. meanwhile people like her are still being elected and would be even if all the repubs came out and condemned it today, right now. then there'd just be notrepubs, with more conspiracy nuts.

[Fugus]

absolutely they should kick her out. meanwhile people like her are still being elected and would be even if all the repubs came out and condemned it today, right now. then there'd just be notrepubs, with more conspiracy nuts.

And the only way to fix that is for the Republicans to stop lying to them and telling them what they want to hear or what makes them fear left wing policies based on lies.

It would also require a MASSIVE crack down on Fox and the likes for lying to their viewer base pretending they are news while knowingly lying about the facts under the guise of “entertainment”.

It will also take them stopping with fake studies with intentionally flawed methodology lying to their base as well.

That will take the GOP and their backers to clean house. Something they don’t want to do because their policies die when exposed to reality way too much and many times take American lives, paychecks and the National deficit with them.

[starlord]

And the only way to fix that is for the Republicans to stop lying to them and telling them what they want to hear or what makes them fear left wing policies based on lies.

It would also require a MASSIVE crack down on Fox and the likes for lying to their viewer base pretending they are news while knowingly lying about the facts under the guise of “entertainment”.

It will also take them stopping with fake studies with intentionally flawed methodology lying to their base as well.

That will take the GOP and their backers to clean house. Something they don’t want to do because their policies die when exposed to reality way too much and many times take American lives, paychecks and the National deficit with them.

theres not much that can really be done about faux news or even the spreading of lies due to certain free speech laws, unfortunately.
and with the current supreme court makeup i don't think any challenges would succeed if they even made it that far.

[Fugus]

theres not much that can really be done about faux news or even the spreading of lies due to certain free speech laws, unfortunately.
and with the current supreme court makeup i don't think any challenges would succeed if they even made it that far.

Easy fix, have it regulated that any form of commentary that talks about the news either has to have a disclaimer at the start and end of it stating they are not news and with no requirement to be honest or accurate and should not be considered a valid news source. And if they aren’t doing that, they will be treated under the same regulations as a legal news source.

The courts would have no place in that.

Also reinstate the fairness doctrine where they are required to go over all sides of the story.

Those alone would go a long way to combat it. But having my brother in law against the vaccine because of some imaginary reaction in the US or some “doctor” said that getting vaccinated weakens your immune system to all other infections because all your antibodies are now setup just to handle the virus and actually believes stuff like that is beyond stupid.

And those examples I have are literally from this week and you can guess what his primary news source is other than Facebook.

[Endus]

i think everyones just had their "i hate repub" mode on for so long that even the barest suggestion that they might be redeemable makes them see red. the dems are trying different tactics than they have been so far, and i think its a good thing that should continue. before it was just a kind of flailing about.

seems to be flying over most people's heads anyways.

You've built this complex scaffolding of straw men that you carefully use to avoid addressing what everyone else is saying, or the reality of the situation that actually exists.

The reality is that the Republicans have, objectively speaking, radicalized into a far-right party with a strong dose of fascism and a deep-seated hatred of democratic systems. The Democrats have leaned a little further left in that same time, but are still decidedly centrist if compared to what would be considered "left-wing parties" in any other democracy.

Additionally, Republicans have consistently and systematically rejected any efforts by Democrats to work together on basically anything meaningful. Not just ideological shifts towards progressivism, but basic legislative processes. They have rejected bipartisanship completely, refusing to accept any measures that are not far-right in nature. They reject bipartisanship ideologically, decrying any Republicans who disagree with that ideological tentpole as "RINOs" and worse. See the vemom Liz Cheney is facing today for the high ideological crime of "fist-bumping the Democratic President".

Democrats have, largely up to the Trump administration, tried to act in good faith and ignored this change in Republican strategy, letting the Republicans pull things further and further to the right. The Republicans say "you need to be bipartisan", the Democrats say "okay, here's a compromise", and in response, the Republicans move farther right and say "nope, not far enough." That's led to a drift rightward that's now largely stopped. And what stopped it was Democrats not playing that game, because that game is not bipartisanship.

The intolerance for conservatives appealing to any sense of bipartisanship now exists because they have no actual interest in bipartisanship. They want concessions. And Democrats aren't kicking that ball any more.

The problem is you're not finishing off the "bipartisanship is dead" mantra. Bipartisanship is dead, because Republicans killed it. There's no point offering compromise, because Republicans will reject any such offer to work together, making the effort a complete waste of time. It isn't Democrats having a distaste for working together, it's a refusal to continue wasting more time on a lost cause.

You keep pretending that's not what people are saying, and enough people have corrected you that it's pretty difficult to believe you don't know full well how unfair you're being.

[starlord]

Easy fix, have it regulated that any form of commentary that talks about the news either has to have a disclaimer at the start and end of it stating they are not news and with no requirement to be honest or accurate and should not be considered a valid news source. And if they aren’t doing that, they will be treated under the same regulations as a legal news source.

The courts would have no place in that.

Also reinstate the fairness doctrine where they are required to go over all sides of the story.

Those alone would go a long way to combat it. But having my brother in law against the vaccine because of some imaginary reaction in the US or some “doctor” said that getting vaccinated weakens your immune system to all other infections because all your antibodies are now setup just to handle the virus and actually believes stuff like that is beyond stupid.

And those examples I have are literally from this week and you can guess what his primary news source is other than Facebook.

even a legal news source isn't required to "not lie", its really just journalists trying to maintain a reputation of integrity.

an example that is relevant today:

Jay Near published a “scandal sheet” in 1920’s Minneapolis. This paper was devoted to sensational news and “exposé” reports on corruption. Near regularly criticized elected officials and accused them of dishonesty. He asserted that Jews were “practically ruling” the city, that the chief of police was taking bribes, and that the governor was incompetent. Near was eventually stopped from publishing his newspaper in 1925 on the basis of the Minnesota law.

The Court held that prior restraint on publication (censoring newspapers in advance) in Minnesota was “the essence of censorship” and the heart of what the First Amendment was designed to prevent. Even in cases where printed statements could be punished after the fact (libelous statements, for example), neither federal nor state governments could stop the publication of materials in advance. The Court cautioned that prior restraint may be constitutional during wartime: “No one would question but that a government might prevent actual obstruction to its recruiting service or the publication of the sailing dates of transports or the number and location of troops.”

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/e-...minnesota-1931

kinda messed up, but there it is.

[PhaelixWW]

But hey, at least the Green New Deal won't force us to drink plant based beer. Which is like, how just about all alcohol is made from save some fermented milk products.

Don't forget mead...

...just sayin'.

[Edge-]

Don't forget mead...

...just sayin'.

I think that one doesn't count. The bee's don't actually "eat/vomit" it out, so it's still technically plant-based!

[Fugus]

even a legal news source isn't required to "not lie", its really just journalists trying to maintain a reputation of integrity.

an example that is relevant today:

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/e-...minnesota-1931

kinda messed up, but there it is.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...se-information

Broadcasting false content during news programming

The FCC is prohibited by law from engaging in censorship or infringing on First Amendment rights of the press. It is, however, illegal for broadcasters to intentionally distort the news, and the FCC may act on complaints if there is documented evidence of such behavior from persons with direct personal knowledge. For more information, please see our consumer guide, Complaints About Broadcast Journalism.