Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[kenn9530]

And i quote myself:

And why does a casual player need that gear if they cant be bothered to earn it from the content thats available, you only need the gear if your pushing for the harder content anyway so if your ignoring that content then a gear upgrade is pointless.

The vaults are not handouts they are at least earnt from some effort into the game, there is no effort into just doing casual content and then just being given 226 items for no effort at all.

High level gear should be much rarer than it currently is, its far too easy to gear up currently and then you get players wanting to be rewarded with high level items without doing the content.

Gear doesnt help that player if they are not doing content to make themselves better, pushing yourself into difficult content is actually what helps a player improve thier skills.

[elnimrod]

Because in the mind of the "skilled player" is like giving a Bugatti Chiron to a 90 yo grandma... it won't get used to its full extent.

[Cuppy]

And why does a casual player need that gear if they cant be bothered to earn it from the content thats available, you only need the gear if your pushing for the harder content anyway so if your ignoring that content then a gear upgrade is pointless.

The vaults are not handouts they are at least earnt from some effort into the game, there is no effort into just doing casual content and then just being given 226 items for no effort at all.

High level gear should be much rarer than it currently is, its far too easy to gear up currently and then you get players wanting to be rewarded with high level items without doing the content.

Gear doesnt help that player if they are not doing content to make themselves better, pushing yourself into difficult content is actually what helps a player improve thier skills.

Now then, this "casual who wants their full 226 gear via mail", who is this guy? There is no such guy, right?
Well ok then, show me the "guy who is casual and is fully 226 geared via their casual bullshit activity"? There is no such guy, right?

So where is the issue then, the handouts of weekly vault which gives you 226 gear when you complete mythic +14?
It's one piece of a loot a week, and I don't think mythic +14(or whatever it is atm what people run for MAXIMUM REWARD HURRDURR) is something you just shrug and go there keyboard smashing and collect the loot, am I right?

[kenn9530]

Now then, this "casual who wants their full 226 gear via mail", who is this guy? There is no such guy, right?
Well ok then, show me the "guy who is casual and is fully 226 geared via their casual bullshit activity"? There is no such guy, right?

So where is the issue then, the handouts of weekly vault which gives you 226 gear when you complete mythic +14?
It's one piece of a loot a week, and I don't think mythic +14(or whatever it is atm what people run for MAXIMUM REWARD HURRDURR) is something you just shrug and go there keyboard smashing and collect the loot, am I right?

And what point are you trying to make as you make no sense at all so at least post something constructive, players in this thread want to be rewarded with higher gear without doing the content that rewards it, thats the issue plain and simple, players not wanting to do the content that rewards the gear and then complain about not getting it.

[Cuppy]

And what point are you trying to make as you make no sense at all so at least post something constructive, players in this thread want to be rewarded with higher gear without doing the content that rewards it, thats the issue plain and simple, players not wanting to do the content that rewards the gear and then complain about not getting it.

I'm literally trying to ask you where are these people you talk about? So let's go at it once again, and this time even clearer:
Show me the guy who wants his 226 gear from doing nothing but their "casual gaming".
Quote him, take a screenshot, give me his number/name or whatever. I want to see this casual guy you talk about.

[ellieg]

So one item (shadowmourne) was ilvl 284. 277 was the highest gear you could have as f.e a priest or a mage.

Ruby sanctum wasn't considered a dif tier. Im just stating that the ilvl spread of items is the same now as it was then. Count the number of 284 items and compare them to the number of 233 items we have now.

- - - Updated - - -

My only point is ppl complain that ilvl spread has increased and casuals are being left behind but thats simply not true. U can look all the way back to wrath and see its the same.

Casuals now get 9 pieces of 197 (with set bonuses), chances at 203 from calling, world boss chance at 207, quest every 7 or so weeks for a 213, and a 235 lego.

Compared to then when they got 4 pieces of 251 (200 equiv), 2 251 tier pieces (200 equiv with 1 set bonus), 3 pieces of 264 (213 equiv).

Its roughly the same but you can acquire most of those pieces now way faster than back then. And u don't have to do a random daily dungeon every single day to get a piece every 3 or 4 weeks.

Wrath : Now
251. 200
264. 213
277. 226
284. 233

[kenn9530]

I'm literally trying to ask you where are these people you talk about? So let's go at it once again, and this time even clearer:
Show me the guy who wants his 226 gear from doing nothing but their "casual gaming".
Quote him, take a screenshot, give me his number/name or whatever. I want to see this casual guy you talk about.

Have you completely ignored the other posts in the thread, tadkins for one only wants to do random BG and still be rewarded higher gear without a rating.

The players that want 226 gear from casual content are the ones who dont want to bother with doing raids/rated PvP or M+ and then complain they get no more upgrades.

Its pretty simple if you want an upgrade earn it from the content that rewards it. A casual player that doesnt do the harder content can still get upgrades overtime to a reasonable ranged of 210-215 ilvl which is more than enough to engage in most content and still complain.

[Twdft]

Have you completely ignored the other posts in the thread, tadkins for one only wants to do random BG and still be rewarded higher gear without a rating.

What? He isn't asking for 226:

None of us are asking for the same rewards. I can agree that it's silly to earn a 226 mythic piece from doing a simple world quest. I'm just asking for rewards that are slightly better than what we're allowed to have, slowly earned to give us a sense of progression throughout the patch cycle so we're not hopelessly stuck and at the mercy of literally everyone in the open world and in a random BG. The BfA system for PvP gear was perfect in that regard.

[kenn9530]

What? He isn't asking for 226:

I didnt specifically say he wanted 226 at least straight away but where would it stop, if you could upgrade your items from casual content you would eventually get max ilvl upgrades in a fairly short timeframe if you could just spam quick and easy content, but essentially what he wants is to get 226 items without doing the content that rewards it.

Casual content should never reward much more than around normal raid level gear at the most, you can still get 213 upgrades just from casual content and you can buy 226 items from the AH so there are plenty ways for a casual player to get reasonable gear levels.

I can get my 205 ilvl preist in a heroic raid easily so a player could easily get gear at a reasonable rate.

[Cuppy]

I didnt specifically say he wanted 226 at least straight away but where would it stop, if you could upgrade your items from casual content you would eventually get max ilvl upgrades in a fairly short timeframe if you could just spam quick and easy content, but essentially what he wants is to get 226 items without doing the content that rewards it.

Have you completely ignored the other posts in the thread, tadkins for one only wants to do random BG and still be rewarded higher gear without a rating.

Can you like make up your mind? You talk a LOT about these "casuals" who want everything by doing nothing, yet you absolutely fail delivering any examples of these "casuals", which I asked you to do.
You throw out one name and turns out he didn't even say anything like that. You just get your gears worked up.
I'm really, really struggling to see your point since these "casuals" you talk about, are nonexistant.
So let's play this game then where I throw an argument without anything to back it up.
"Mythic raiders want to earn american dollars for their mythic efforts!1111 it's ruining the game"
Yeah, makes no sense right because no mythic raider is actually asking for that, I just made that up, just like you made up this weird thing where someone "casual" is asking for the best gear in-game to be delivered them when they do their casual content like random bg's, pet battles and whatnot.

Casual content should never reward much more than around normal raid level gear at the most, you can still get 213 upgrades just from casual content and you can buy 226 items from the AH so there are plenty ways for a casual player to get reasonable gear levels.

I'm quite interested at this point what is that YOU consider as casual content? Is it random bg's, is it mythic dungeons upward from +7? Please elaborate.

[Solero]

Harder content deserves better loot. Simple as that. People that disagree and/or whine about loot, are usually the people that are not very good at the game.

Harder content equals better gear. Really easy concept and it should be this way. There should be no way a casual player should achieve mythic raider ilevel. It doesnt make sense. Stop being lazy and grind for the stuff that you want.

[Crimson Spears]

I do wish casual stayed as a time commitment turn rather then wow letting the community twist it into "being so awful at the game its a miracle they manage to move their character".

No other community I know of uses casual as a short hand for retarded.

[kenn9530]

snip

Do you not read any posts in this thread at all, i already stated that the players wanting these gear upgrades are the ones only doing HC dungeons, LFR, Random BGs and WQs, they then complain about not getting gear when they are not doing the content that rewards it, do you believe just investing time into a game should reward you will more powerful gear.

The players are not non existant they are in this thread, they want to be constantly given upgrades by doing the most basic WoW content has available.

A casual player is one that doesnt push themselves into more challenging content, time investement is not really a good measure to determine a casual player since world first raiders that play 1 day a week are then casual players.

[munkeyinorbit]

Yup, well said.



If someone is unskilled, what does it matter if they're allowed to collect gear on their own? They'll just supposedly get destroyed anyway, right? What are you afraid of?

Wouldn't it be in your best interest to see a game where there is a place for everyone? It means your content gets funded.

As you don't even play the game you don't understand. The issue is that if you have a progression system outside of the three streams you have today you effectively kill those streams. If the streams have less people in them then blizzard thinks "why are we making raids or PvP or m+ when the players don't play them?" Then blizzard stops making them. Why even do endgame if you can get 226 just by doing WQ? You've just killed wow with your entitlement. GG buddy, and you don't even play.

- - - Updated - - -

Someone working hard on their own to slowly acquire decent gear is not effort to you? Why does it matter that someone by themselves is able to acquire a decent set by themselves? Does it really affect you that much? They're paying a sub and helping to fund your content.

Not everyone has legions of friends and not everyone is able to break into the tough group content.

Why are you speaking on behalf of people with a subscription? You don't have one.

People already have a path to decent gear without stepping into raiding or m+. It is the covenant and legendary gear. If you want better gear than you can step into organized group content. You don't have to have any friends to do it.

[Tadkins]

well yes and no. You might have problems getting into decent groups from time to time. But over a whole patch or a whole xpac? If I want AOTC, I can go get it. There are groups, there are guilds and communities. Theres lots of groups on discord for whatever content you want to do in the game.

Im just saying no one should be afraid of missing out on titles, mounts and gear. If you really want it, its there to obtain. We dont deserve everything in the game if we cant be bothered doing the legwork to get it.

Im probably of the old school style on this one. Do the legwork required to get the stuff, or dont. I've been frustrated about missing out on alot of stuff, but thats on me. And you know what? its fine. It really aint that bad. Makes whatever you actually get more cool.

When I do obtain a mount in game it actually feels great, knowing its my work.

Fair enough. I think the issue is that a lot of those rewards are limited time things and even if you're not feeling up to the task now, you don't have a choice to go back later and try to get it. Which pressures folks to buy them if necessary when things don't go their way, like guilds falling apart while trying to get it.

I can respect the mindset though.

To get stronger you need to push yourself to do more challenging content, why should you be rewarded with better items when it takes no effort but just some time, gear shouldnt just be handed to you just for the amount of time you invest in a game, characters get stronger when you make them do more challenging things

Not everyone is able to treat this game as a Rocky montage of "eye of the tiger, rise and overcome!". If all I have to look forward to is being crapped on by the devs and the community for not being an ultra-skilled player, what reason do I have to resub? Do you really think this will become a better game if all that is left by the end are ultra-skilled folks?

[munkeyinorbit]

So I can feel like I'm allowed to queue for random battlegrounds and turn on warmode. Right now I feel like I would just get eaten alive.

How about you actually buy SL and find out? Your "feelings" are not factual.

- - - Updated - - -

He obviously put in a lot of effort acquiring that gold (IRL or i game) so I'd say he has earned whatever he bought.

- - - Updated - - -



It's what happens if the hardcore players feel that their gear exclusively is threatened. They get furious

Somebody can't read. This thread is full of people that don't play the game telling people who do play the game that they want things just by logging in and doing a WQ. They don't understand that this will destroy wow because noone will do the endgame because you can just do WQ instead. This is not a single player game.

[kenn9530]

Not everyone is able to treat this game as a Rocky montage of "eye of the tiger, rise and overcome!". If all I have to look forward to is being crapped on by the devs and the community for not being an ultra-skilled player, what reason do I have to resub? Do you really think this will become a better game if all that is left by the end are ultra-skilled folks?

Even an M+ 15 is not hard, all mythic plus is about is learning the actual dungeon itself and when to pop cds and when to save them along with the main things to avoid, if you slowly progress through low M+ you should learn everything you need to anyway, as long as you can play your class half decent then there should be no issues with performance. Its not about skill its about the willingness to step into and learn the slightly more challenging content.

If you push yourself just a little just about any player is capable of cutting edge content, but if you never push yourself to things that your uncomfortable with then you will never get better.

[munkeyinorbit]

I wouldn't say it's entirely on you. Raiding, among other things, is a team activity and if you don't have a cooperative team, all the desire and drive in the world isn't going to help you get the reward. If you're skilled enough on your own and don't get that AotC or other reward, it's not entirely your fault.

That's the point I've tried to make extensively in this thread. I can want to do M+ or raid till the cows come home, but if other people aren't inviting me, or other people aren't joining my group, what more can I do? Try to solo the damn thing?

I've only ever bought stuff like that three times in the game though. Once, when my guild fell apart during SoO, I bought the Garrosh mount/achieve, and the CM armor/weapons during MoP and WoD because I could never find a reliable group of friends to learn the dungeons with.

You've been involved in multiple threads about this exact topic and you still don't get it. Make your own group. You don't need to be in a guild to do it. You don't need friends to do it. You don't need to lead anything to do it.

You do need a sub though. I recommend you buy SL so you can make your own groups.

[Tadkins]

If you push yourself just a little just about any player is capable of cutting edge content, but if you never push yourself to things that your uncomfortable with then you will never get better.

I'd love to try and push myself. I don't have the greatest confidence in myself and I do stumble a bit though, but I'd be glad to try and learn to get better. If I came back, would you help me?

[loras]

Also people are very protective of their feeling "earning" something.
They have that irl too, very obvious if you're from a rich background; the most jealously guarding of their possessions to the point of insanity are the poor people.
The greediest mofos i've ever met were those who fought tooth and claw from poverty into riches, ever kicking down. And the "best" part is of course that in their doing so they often plant the seeds for a swift downfall of their own and all they touch.

It's odd to see that sorta mentality in WoW as well, honestly, but not entirely surprising.

Speaking of: Anyone that has personal experience with newly-rich crypto-investors? I am not entirely certain about the whole thing and wondered if it's the same pattern in people and markets seen in 2008.