Why is end game tailored so much against the casual player?

[kaminaris]

Island expeditions.... need is say more? It had just 1 strat - play a tank and run around gathering the whole place and do 1 big aoe pull - rinse repeat. Not only was the gameplay that damn boring and uninspiring, but the reward system was complete garbage and lacked any sense of importance of a player's time. 200-300 azerite, and once every 3-4 runs, maybe a cosmetic for 1 of the group members. Maybe once every 15-20 runs, a pet. Maybe once every 50-100 runs, a mount. If you wanted those rewards, you had to subject yourself to that degenerate gameplay to be efficient with your time. They never fixed it for the entire duration of BFA. All they did was add a vendor in the final patch so your arbitrary doubloons that were just lying in your currency tab (another fuckin oversight, what a surprise) had some use before the expansion ended.

A lot of buzzwords with most of them being wrong. There were multiple strats for islands, for once, you could do tripple dps (classic), pvp version, ATOMIK giga blast, kite and kill, pacifist rabbit charm and probably couple more. Just because you played it with only one doesn't mean other strats didn't exist. Second rewards were ok, and it was finally something different that typical dungeons and raids that was pretty fun (because of AOE component, and change of pace).

What islands really needed was just more fun items, more maps and more enemy variety.

Warfronts (Also Heroic Warfronts, they're both the same level of garbage, don't deny it) - Wtf were they thinking with this? It was 25-30 minutes of fighting add waves to face a boss that fell in under 2-3 mins (for the alliance anyway). They never spent another minute of development time on this Box feature after releasing the heroic version.

Well the thing is, you don't seem to understand one thing, no feature is going to be fun for everyone. What is important is to not listen to some angry streamers (or dudes on the forum) and keep iterating and not abandoning it after 1 expansion. That is all this game needs. Not swinging their design decisions every expansion and abandoning their ideas so fast.

First iteration of M+ was total disaster, fortunately they kept on improving it until they went too far the other side in SL where every mob is just damn annoying.

[TheLucky1]

Why is it casual is used as a place holder for being terrible at the game without actually addressing if its casual or not?

WoW is a garbage casual game i would argue.

How? The only thing i could understand is the subscription but the game itself is casual heaven.

You can log on and instantly do a fricktillion of different things (16 year game) without anything stopping you:leveling;following the story;hunting mounts/transmog/achievements; random bg's; random nhc/heroic dungeons; exploring zones; roleplay; making gold etc. etc.

This isn't representative of all casuals but i know how some colleagues and friends i got into the game that are cyclic/casual players play and i also still remember how i played the first few years.

Do you think anyone of us cared about the gear treadmill? Raids? Mythic+? "optimizing your character"? Wanting to have "good gear"? Hell no.

[Crimson Spears]

How? The only thing i could understand is the subscription but the game itself is casual heaven.

You can log on and instantly do a fricktillion of different things (16 year game) without anything stopping you:leveling;following the story;hunting mounts/transmog/achievements; random bg's; random nhc/heroic dungeons; exploring zones; roleplay; making gold etc. etc.

This isn't representative of all casuals but i know how some colleagues and friends i got into the game that are cyclic/casual players play and i also still remember how i played the first few years.

Do you think anyone of us cared about the gear treadmill? Raids? Mythic+? "optimizing your character"? Wanting to have "good gear"? Hell no.

I suppose my mind isn't really in the zone of people who do challenge less content though I can kinda get it I boot up kirby roms when I want a game I cant really lose myself.

I would say just play a single player game but I admit the genre wow is outside of an mmo is rather stagnate at the moment. I guess I can't see the draw of playing wow over dragon age origins for example.

[Zarvel]

A lot of buzzwords with most of them being wrong. There were multiple strats for islands, for once, you could do tripple dps (classic), pvp version, ATOMIK giga blast, kite and kill, pacifist rabbit charm and probably couple more. Just because you played it with only one doesn't mean other strats didn't exist. Second rewards were ok, and it was finally something different that typical dungeons and raids that was pretty fun (because of AOE component, and change of pace).

What islands really needed was just more fun items, more maps and more enemy variety.

I hope you see the irony of your own response? Lmao. You called my simple worded para as "buzzwords" and then proceeded to list out actual buzzwords rofl.
No. I'm afraid you're dead wrong on this no matter how hard you try to make it look like you're right. None of those words you used matter, at all.
Everyone knew the "right" way to do islands for its rewards was to queue in as 1 tank + 2 dps, and then do the whole island in 1 pull and exit the instance in under 3-4 mins. If you did it any other way, you risked it for no reason, probably even took longer to do it, and were flat out wrong. That's it. You can continue arguing your point though, knock yourself out buddy.

Well the thing is, you don't seem to understand one thing, no feature is going to be fun for everyone. What is important is to not listen to some angry streamers (or dudes on the forum) and keep iterating and not abandoning it after 1 expansion. That is all this game needs. Not swinging their design decisions every expansion and abandoning their ideas so fast.

First iteration of M+ was total disaster, fortunately they kept on improving it until they went too far the other side in SL where every mob is just damn annoying.

I am so tempted to ask you for your armory.
First iteration of M+ was a complete disaster? Mate I'm at this point also tempted to open up that skull of yours and plug some electrodes in to see how exactly your neurons fire. It was only because of how fuckin successful M+ as a feature set was in Legion that they kept it around and spent actual development $$ on it to iterate it.
Like dude, I don't even have to try to discredit your responses to what I said in my prev post. You're doing the work for me.

[Glorious Leader]

WoW is easily one of the most casual friendly games on the market, you seriously have some catch up to do if you as a player think this isn't true and look into some other games.

The only thing not casual friendly is high rated pvp like in almost any pvp game and top end pve, both a miniscule amount of content the whole game has to offer and in my personal opinion not even worth/rewarding enough for how much time and effort you would have to put up on average. (Yet some players still want to water it down, wtf)

People arguing in this thread "for casuals" also aren't casual, no freaking casual player would have a fan site account and dozens of Posts on it, the few casual players i know simply don't find the time and energy in their day to think about this game to such an extent that they would argue this in depth about it.

I like that you call out people in this thread as not casual but then pretend you know what actually counts as casual friendly. I guess the irony was lost on you. Its not and the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Casuals left the game. Alot of them.

[kaminaris]

I hope you see the irony of your own response? Lmao. You called my simple worded para as "buzzwords" and then proceeded to list out actual buzzwords rofl.
No. I'm afraid you're dead wrong on this no matter how hard you try to make it look like you're right. None of those words you used matter, at all.
Everyone knew the "right" way to do islands for its rewards was to queue in as 1 tank + 2 dps, and then do the whole island in 1 pull and exit the instance in under 3-4 mins. If you did it any other way, you risked it for no reason, probably even took longer to do it, and were flat out wrong. That's it. You can continue arguing your point though, knock yourself out buddy.

The difference is that i used all these strats, so they are not buzzwords.

Everyone knew the "right" way to do islands for its rewards was to queue in as 1 tank + 2 dps

Nobody did that by the way, that was "ATOMIK giga blast" strategy (or kite away strat), very hard to pull off but aside from that? nobody wanted tank on islands. 3 dps was most popular strategy. I begin to wonder, did you even play islands? Doesn't seem like it. I have most transmo, achievements (except for pvp) and most mounts.

You only wanted tank if you had bad gear.

I am so tempted to ask you for your armory.
First iteration of M+ was a complete disaster? Mate I'm at this point also tempted to open up that skull of yours and plug some electrodes in to see how exactly your neurons fire. It was only because of how fuckin successful M+ as a feature set was in Legion that they kept it around and spent actual development $$ on it to iterate it.
Like dude, I don't even have to try to discredit your responses to what I said in my prev post. You're doing the work for me.

Unfortunately for you, i have way better memory than you do. You probably don't even remember that first iteration of M+ had depleted keys and multiple chests based on the timer. That was gigantic disaster as people did the lowest keys so they can pull +3 without much effort. Also once you depleted your key nobody wanted to sign up on that. Discredit my responses? From what I see you didn't even play back then.

Shit was so bad blizzard had to pull emergency fixes during entire expansion. Not to mention dungeons themselves were boring meatgrinder and best reward from there was AP and "bad luck protection" (with notable exceptions of sets and some trinkets).

[rhorle]

I was talking to my specific point... i don't know what weird argument your trying to have about gear to be frank it feels like your strawmaning some other argument.

See I don't think you understood anything being posted because you originally took issue to my statements about gear and skill. Your specific point was talking about it as well since that was your rebuttal to the skill vs gear discussion. You also are not using strawman correctly. It isn't a blanket dismissal of anything you don't like.

The difference between a w1 and a w99 guild is skill. Does a w1 guild put a lot of prep time into it? Sure but that still doesn't change that there are players of different skill levels. And gear helps lower the skill gap. It has worked that way since WotLK. There are people that struggled in Naxx even when the best players at the time could clear it in Sunwell gear.

Preparation helps those "world 1st" level guilds but that is something everyone can do. And a little preparation helps even the low end guilds.

[Sneek]

the sooner we can buy endgame gear with gold the better

[Echocho]

WoW is easily one of the most casual friendly games on the market, you seriously have some catch up to do if you as a player think this isn't true and look into some other games.

I only need to look at FFXIV to see that casual content in WoW is more of an afterthought. In FFXIV it's the focal point.

So no, WoW isn't one of the most casual friendly MMORPGs, far from it.

[Soon-TM]

the sooner we can buy endgame gear with gold the better

Buy a bunch of tokens -> pay for mythic raid/arena carries -> collect your endgame gear.

[Zorachus]

Shittylands is Raid and M+ or die, nothing else to do.

There is just nothing in this game besides those two in this terrible expansion

The Maw fucking blows.

Torghast royally sucks.

World Quests are like clocking into a factory job and get to work on the long tedious stupid WQ's that give pretty much useless garbage.

Covenant campaign is short and gone with quickly.

This might be the worst expansion to date.

[Tadkins]

Shittylands is Raid and M+ or die, nothing else to do.

There is just nothing in this game besides those two in this terrible expansion

The Maw fucking blows.

Torghast royally sucks.

World Quests are like clocking into a factory job and get to work on the long tedious stupid WQ's that give pretty much useless garbage.

Covenant campaign is short and gone with quickly.

This might be the worst expansion to date.

Yup well said. Sounds like a dream game for the elite though.

We'll see how that ends up playing out in due time.

[Elias1337]

I like that you call out people in this thread as not casual but then pretend you know what actually counts as casual friendly. I guess the irony was lost on you. Its not and the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Casuals left the game. Alot of them.

Yes and most of those cauals including me quit becouse game is way too casual friendly. Just becouse you have casual friendly game doesnt mean game is actualy fun for casuals. Casual friendly game = game what is easy and acessible but such games are never fun even for casual audience.

[Revamp Man]

This thread is still going??

Well mass delusion is a powerful drug

The game isn’t tailored against casuals and there is about 50 examples in this thread alone so it seems the title should be “why isn’t the game tailored to MEEEEE”

[Tadkins]

This thread is still going??

Well mass delusion is a powerful drug

The game isn’t tailored against casuals and there is about 50 examples in this thread alone so it seems the title should be “why isn’t the game tailored to MEEEEE”

Would you care to give examples as to how that's not the case though? The poster above me summed it up pretty well.

Shittylands is Raid and M+ or die, nothing else to do.

There is just nothing in this game besides those two in this terrible expansion

The Maw fucking blows.

Torghast royally sucks.

World Quests are like clocking into a factory job and get to work on the long tedious stupid WQ's that give pretty much useless garbage.

Covenant campaign is short and gone with quickly.

This might be the worst expansion to date.

Seems like the game is not friendly to the non-elite to me.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes and most of those cauals including me quit becouse game is way too casual friendly. Just becouse you have casual friendly game doesnt mean game is actualy fun for casuals. Casual friendly game = game what is easy and acessible but such games are never fun even for casual audience.

I'm willing to bet you have aotc, cutting edge, ksm or whatever the pvp equivalents of those are. Furthermore you're posting on a forum. You are not casual.

[Elias1337]

I'm willing to bet you have aotc, cutting edge, ksm or whatever the pvp equivalents of those are. Furthermore you're posting on a forum. You are not casual.

I dont have any of that. I havent done anything above LFR since WoD.

[PixelFox]

If you want a breath of fresh air that somehow avoids pretty much all the problems that plague WoW in recent years, then I humbly suggest giving GW2 a try as it has easily 10x as many things to do and everyone has easy access to the best gear which is all the same in terms of stats and they haven't needed to raise the level cap since the game released. And almost everyone is extremely friendly and helpful to newbies and there aren't many elitists at all.

[Zorachus]

Would you care to give examples as to how that's not the case though? The poster above me summed it up pretty well.


Seems like the game is not friendly to the non-elite to me.

Current WoW is made primarily for Raiders and M+'ers and that's pretty much it.

If you don’t do either of the above this expansion has almost nothing to offer and nothing to do.

Shittylands is the lamest most boring generic expansion ever made

[Echocho]

Yup well said. Sounds like a dream game for the elite though.

We'll see how that ends up playing out in due time.

WOD was also a dream game for the elite. It got so bad that Blizzard had to stop reporting sub numbers.

Casuals were and always will be the bulk of the playerbase. They're the ones Blizzard needs to cater to because the elite will play no matter how bad things get out of sheer addiction.

There's a reason FFXIV has trippled its playerbase since Shadowlands launched, they know how to care for their casual majority.