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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Current WoW is made primarily for Raiders and M+'ers and that's pretty much it.

    If you don’t do either of the above this expansion has almost nothing to offer and nothing to do.

    Shittylands is the lamest most boring generic expansion ever made
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    WOD was also a dream game for the elite. It got so bad that Blizzard had to stop reporting sub numbers.

    Casuals were and always will be the bulk of the playerbase. They're the ones Blizzard needs to cater to because the elite will play no matter how bad things get out of sheer addiction.

    There's a reason FFXIV has trippled its playerbase since Shadowlands launched, they know how to care for their casual majority.
    The silver lining is, after WoD we got Legion, one of the most content filled and casual friendly expansions ever, if not the most. Here's hoping Blizz re-learns its lesson and gives us another Legion after SL.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The silver lining is, after WoD we got Legion, one of the most content filled and casual friendly expansions ever, if not the most. Here's hoping Blizz re-learns its lesson and gives us another Legion after SL.
    I loved Legion. Wouid love a Legion-esque type expansion next

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Would you care to give examples as to how that's not the case though? The poster above me summed it up pretty well.



    Seems like the game is not friendly to the non-elite to me.
    the title says it isnt tailored for casuals and then they go on to say its tailored for elitists (which btw the elitists also dont like the systems and it actually works against them because of the covenant system)

    you just start the expansion?? well once you hit 60 it takes maybe 10 hours of play to get through the campaign quest and with anima coming from lfr and every other WQ you can just about upgrade a full set by anima alone and fill the other slots with crafted or BoE gear from the auction house including the legendary and then you go to lfr and kill sire getting a weapon which places all content open to you and any progression being through the weekly rewards if you dont choose to go beyond lfd and lfr

    the poster above shows that the game is actually too tailored to casual players because its all too easy i guess

    so yeah if you are agreeing the game is casual friendly then i dont think i need to explain further

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    I dont have any of that. I havent done anything above LFR since WoD.
    Well its largely irrelevant anyway. The game is most definitely not too casual friendly nor is the answer to make it less casual friendly in order to retain casuals. Thats the most blinkered logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The silver lining is, after WoD we got Legion, one of the most content filled and casual friendly expansions ever, if not the most. Here's hoping Blizz re-learns its lesson and gives us another Legion after SL.
    I'm not so sure about that unfortunately given Ions most recent interview. Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    I think the end result of this approach will be Kotick putting some Activision person in charge of further WoW development.

    (Or, possibly, selling the entire franchise, perhaps to Tencent.)
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Well its largely irrelevant anyway. The game is most definitely not too casual friendly nor is the answer to make it less casual friendly in order to retain casuals. Thats the most blinkered logic.

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    I'm not so sure about that unfortunately given Ions most recent interview. Of course ion could and probably should be replaced but it sounds like he wants to double down on the current direction.
    I think its rather fitting he is in charge. He burns the good players and the bad by making the game more and more hardcore reminds me of the ending of five nights at freddies.



    He made a room with no exit for the warring players... a maze with no prize.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchpotato2013 View Post
    They’re designing that content around the playerbase that plays it the most. You aren’t the target audience anymore. So either get on board or keep quiet and continue buying the “store mount”-bone they throwout every now and then to appease players who don’t push that content.
    This isn't true. 99% of the playerbase are casuals. We absolutely are the target audience. So either get your facts straight or qft and continue grinding for them higher ilvls.

  8. #708
    most people are garbage not casual

    l2p issue as usual

  9. #709
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think the end result of this approach will be Kotick putting some Activision person in charge of further WoW development. (Or, possibly, selling the entire franchise, perhaps to Tencent.)
    Neither of those two things would happen. Who at Activision would be appointed as game director? They just basically merged all their studios into Blizzard or the COD umbrella. They would appoint someone as oversight of Blizzard rather then game design. And there is no way they would sell Blizzard, or Warcraft, to Tencent. It is crazy the conspiracies people love to cook up.
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  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    This isn't true. 99% of the playerbase are casuals. We absolutely are the target audience. So either get your facts straight or qft and continue grinding for them higher ilvls.

    Exactly, the [H]ardcore Raider base is a small fraction of the millions of WoW subs. I've heard they make up maybe 25%.

    But WoW's core player base are casuals that never step foot inside current Raids.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Shittylands is Raid and M+ or die, nothing else to do.

    There is just nothing in this game besides those two in this terrible expansion

    The Maw fucking blows.

    Torghast royally sucks.

    World Quests are like clocking into a factory job and get to work on the long tedious stupid WQ's that give pretty much useless garbage.

    Covenant campaign is short and gone with quickly.

    This might be the worst expansion to date.
    I like it rather more than I liked BfA. Whether it continues to be better than WoD remains to be seen.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Yup well said. Sounds like a dream game for the elite though.

    We'll see how that ends up playing out in due time.
    this game is literally causing the "elite" to quit
    look at how the world first race went this time around because of the systems championed by the casuals and disguised as "meaningful choice" when in reality it was just like the invention of TF and high ilvl wq loot for nothing....a way to make the players that dont take part in the endgame content beyond lfr to try and feel better when comparing themselves so it justifies the excuse "i could do mythic but i have a life" instead of admitting its more than that and 90% of the time its an excuse ebcause they dont want to admit that they cant do content that requires just a teensy weensy bit of personal accountability

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    this game is literally causing the "elite" to quit
    look at how the world first race went this time around because of the systems championed by the casuals and disguised as "meaningful choice" when in reality it was just like the invention of TF and high ilvl wq loot for nothing....a way to make the players that dont take part in the endgame content beyond lfr to try and feel better when comparing themselves so it justifies the excuse "i could do mythic but i have a life" instead of admitting its more than that and 90% of the time its an excuse ebcause they dont want to admit that they cant do content that requires just a teensy weensy bit of personal accountability
    No, it's causing them to whine and complain. They aren't quitting. Check the rosters - they'll be right back at it next tier.

    The people that are largely quitting aren't saying a word. They've been unsubbed for probably 4-5 months now, and they're not coming back. If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row. They'll play a week or two and quit again.

    The only time the players return in large numbers is when a final patch brings everyone to the same level, then an expansion launch, and then they all quit 10-12 weeks in again in greater numbers than before because this development team simply will never change the way they design every expansion post-WoD. If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in. If you hated Shadowlands 2 months in, you're going to hate whatever disaster they cook up next expansion 2 months in.

    Every time - Less and less resubs. Less overall numbers. The slope is going one direction, and will continue to do so.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in.
    The converse is not true, though. I felt much better about BFA 2 months in than I did about SL. I played BfA all the way through. I stopped playing SL in December (and the sub expired in February).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    No, it's causing them to whine and complain. They aren't quitting. Check the rosters - they'll be right back at it next tier.

    The people that are largely quitting aren't saying a word. They've been unsubbed for probably 4-5 months now, and they're not coming back. If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row. They'll play a week or two and quit again.

    The only time the players return in large numbers is when a final patch brings everyone to the same level, then an expansion launch, and then they all quit 10-12 weeks in again in greater numbers than before because this development team simply will never change the way they design every expansion post-WoD. If you hated BFA 2 months in, you're gonna hate Shadowlands 2 months in. If you hated Shadowlands 2 months in, you're going to hate whatever disaster they cook up next expansion 2 months in.

    Every time - Less and less resubs. Less overall numbers. The slope is going one direction, and will continue to do so.
    Pretty much this.

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Indeed. What's great about FFXIV is that the endgame progression is modelled after what WoW used to work like while at its absolute peak.

    Casuals can collect their badges every week from doing pretty relaxed matchmade dungeons and raids and slowly work towards a set of great gear.

    Since their version of time walking is always active you have a staggering amount of dungeons and raids to pull from so it never gets repetitive.

    It's also a lot more social and friendly. You actually have time to talk in dungeons and people are eager to help new players, it's a truly great experience all around.
    Casuals can do 1 m+ or 10 to open more options and it's the same thing as it was at the "peak" you claim of badges and get good gear. This lie that badges are what the game needs right now has got to stop. This other lie that M+ isn't for casuals needs to stop. Yet another lie that seems to call players who log 10 hours a day and yet refuse to do any actual current content and demand gear on par with raiders to be casual players needs to stop. Even someone who plays 4 hours a week can do nathria and m+

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    Hardcore players being the majority? Lol what?
    Not the majority, but the majority of actual income for the company, yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Exactly, the [H]ardcore Raider base is a small fraction of the millions of WoW subs. I've heard they make up maybe 25%.

    But WoW's core player base are casuals that never step foot inside current Raids.
    Sure, they have the numbers, but they unsub more often, have fewer total accounts, spend less on in game shop items, and bring in less revenue from outside sources like the tournaments etc. The tournaments alone bring in more revenue than thousands of casuals.

  17. #717
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    If they DID decide to come back, they're just going to get greeted by blizzards X.2 "catch up" patches that leave them unable to do any content because they're locked behind an arbitrary 4 week grind for X Power like they have been the last 2 expansions in a row.
    As opposed to no catch up mechanic where they can't do the content? You have a skewed view of how the catch up mechanics function and how it limits people.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Not the majority, but the majority of actual income for the company, yes.

    Sure, they have the numbers, but they unsub more often, have fewer total accounts, spend less on in game shop items, and bring in less revenue from outside sources like the tournaments etc. The tournaments alone bring in more revenue than thousands of casuals.
    Source for the bolded parts, or it didn't happen.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-05-03 at 04:20 AM. Reason: Double post ftl
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Yeah no. Hardcore players are still very much the minority. The majority of the playerbase is casuals.
    "Casuals" aka people who play the game 80 hours a week but don't raid like the dreaded "hardcores" are definitely the majority of the playerbase and honestly they are biggest reason why it takes so long to acquire leggos and upgrade them to max. A raider would happily just make all of them but a casual player is going to probably just make one or two so if they can see a tangible upgrade every other week since the 200ish wall is there for non rated content it makes them happier.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Source for the bolded parts, or it didn't happen.
    It's LITERALLY right in front of you as in YouTube promotions etc. I don't need to source that as it's common knowledge that events bring advertisers. Try again.

    Just to sate your lunacy about this: 2019 Blizzcon matches total prize pool was 330,000 dollars. Blizzard is not just going to be giving that money away without actually making it back at LEAST twofold. So right there we're looking at somewhere around 500k revenue from 1 event. If you REALLY somehow think they're taking a loss on these events rather than a massive gain(the 330k was included just to give a rough idea of what they gave away while making money) then no matter what evidence is presented you'll claim it's fabricated.
    Last edited by ohwell; 2021-05-03 at 04:50 AM.

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