[Megathread] Amazon's New World MMO

[Forteofgray]

And I've never found it to make the game any better for it. Yeah it feels good to wreck shit action style for a little bit, but so much depth is lost in every case I've seen so far. I find action style combat incredibly shallow in other MMOs. Maybe I just haven't seen a good one yet, it's entirely possible, but I don't believe action style combat is any better than tab targetting.

Coincidentally (or maybe not), the 2 most played MMORPGs both use tab targetting style of combat.

tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over in tab targeting isn't any better to me.

[Cracked]

tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over in tab targeting isn't any better to me.

As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.

[Forteofgray]

As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.

yeah I said in tab targeting it's basically the same feeling for me, not any better. this is called an opinion.

[Cracked]

yeah I said in tab targeting it's basically the same feeling for me, not any better. this is called an opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that to an extent they can feel the same, but devil is in the details. It's not about better or worse, it's about which one can keep players engaged for longer and provide more depth in an MMO, which imo is clearly tab targetting, which I think must be apparent to anyone who played something like BDO and WoW both.

[kenn9530]

As opposed to tapping 1, 2, 3, 4 in action games? The point I was making is that tab targeting allows more control for both players and the designers. In action style, everything is either aoe, or really shit to use.

The combat in new world is a little different to other action rpgs, your not going to be pulling huge amounts of mobs and burning them down fast, your mainly handling a few mobs at most at a time and only a few weapon skill lines deal with aoe abilities, your able to block and dodge attacks depending on stamina so the combat is more skill based, tab targetting is kinda lazy gameplay design at this point and gets boring since its been used for decades now.

[Cracked]

The combat in new world is a little different to other action rpgs, your not going to be pulling huge amounts of mobs and burning them down fast, your mainly handling a few mobs at most at a time and only a few weapon skill lines deal with aoe abilities, your able to block and dodge attacks depending on stamina so the combat is more skill based, tab targetting is kinda lazy gameplay design at this point and gets boring since its been used for decades now.

Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.

[Edge-]

Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.

Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.

[Cracked]

Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.

I haven't, I just watched some videos and I would honestly probably have to play it for a bit to see how it feels. There are obviously things you can do to design around it, e.g. limit ranged targetted skills to absolute minimum, force everyone to be melee-ish range, etc.. but as I said, limiting design is not a great starting point for a RPG of any kind.

[Edge-]

I haven't, I just watched some videos and I would honestly probably have to play it for a bit to see how it feels. There are obviously things you can do to design around it, e.g. limit ranged targetted skills to absolute minimum, force everyone to be melee-ish range, etc.. but as I said, limiting design is not a great starting point for a RPG of any kind.

Except that action combat doesn't limit design at all, and it opens up quite a few unique avenues for gameplay.

Melee AoE cleaves? Well, in tab target they're either things you just eat if you're in range, or they're things you run out of visible AoE's for. Not really much "gameplay" there.

Melee AoE cleaves in action combat? Telegraphed abilities that can vary, forces melee to either manually run away (DPS loss), eat it (generally bad idea), or play smart and use one of their attacks to move them out of the AoE while dealing damage to the boss.

Ranged attacks on casters? Don't worry, they've got movement skills too so they can dodge out quickly if the boss decides to charge across the arena towards them or shoot some shit at them.

Seriously, it's not super populated and it's WAY easier now with super OP gear leveling up, but Tera is a solid example of how action combat can be done well in a MMO, and how you can have mechanically challenging and interesting fights. Some of the high end content that I never "played" (I cheated on dev builds so godmode ftw) is insanely difficult and requires that you pay a TON of attention to telegraphs and have very fast reaction times. And it's all still trinity based, so you're still rolling around with a tank that needs to be managing threat for the most part (not super mandatory, but extremely helpful) and a healer (again, not super mandatory but...well...you're gonna have to play pretty perfectly to get by without one).

[jackofwind]

Have you played Tera? Because like, they managed to figure it out overall, and we can quibble over balance if we want. Giving attacks opportunity costs puts more focus on the player's skill, rewarding them for smarter positioning and skill use based on the enemy they're fighting.

I wouldn't argue that Tera's combat is anything to write home about.

[kenn9530]

Which imo limits the potential designs of the game. So they added dungeons now, what happens when everyone has gear / skill? Obviously, only the AoE weapons will be meta then, otherwise the designers are limiting themselves to making every dungeon the same with mobs that have to be fought on their own or bosses only. Or in PvP, even in something like a 4v4 situation, it gets really frustrating to make sure your abilities actually hit the targets you want them to without everything being area of effect.

From what i have already played the AoE spells dont do a great deal of dmg anyway and are a long time cd and i think its maybe mainly the fire staff and hammer than has some AoE effects, the abilities are also not instant and can be easily avoidable and interupted if you pay attention, time will tell on how the game plays on release but its not designed around pulling a ton of mobs and burning them down as skills cant just be spammed.

The combat in new world is slower paced.

[neik]

Well
they removed forced pvp
added dungeons (up to like 5 now)
no real raid content
combat improvements have been happening quite a lot, as well as new weapons.

Thanks for taking your time to clarify this to me.

[Strawberry]

Amazon responded to cash shop concerns

"We are aware that there are concerns around the storefront testing we are currently doing in Alpha. To be clear, at launch all of the items in the shop will be focused on cosmetics, and there will be no boosts of any type for sale. We will share more on our vision for MTX in the near future."

Oh i see through your bullshit.

To be clear, at launch all of the items

[Morae]

I was showing some interest for this game. Not much, but still some. Now its down the drain. Its already gone to DOA box.

When I look back at which games I have played most and liked in recent years, its always the ones that doesn't have shitton of mtx in them.

[Edge-]

Amazon responded to cash shop concerns

Oh i see through your bullshit.

I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.

[Rogalicus]

I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.

You're not the only one, it was obvious that game is supposed to somehow make money after initial sales and nothing they've presented so far was different from what other games (even with subs and paid expansions) have.

[Acidbaron]

I feel like I'm the only one not like, morally and righteously pissed off about this?

Seen plenty of anger over the cash shop alone which like, should have been super obvious it was coming given that it was a B2P game. As for boosts, meh. Every MMO sells boosts of some sort nowadays, even WoW. As longa s it doesn't impact PvP power, that's a big 'ol "meh" from me as an abstract concept.

We haven't even seen the bloody thing yet so we don't even know what kinds of cosmetics they're selling or what kinda prices they're thinking of.

Some credit should be given because you need to in my opinion also look at the overall design philosophy behind the game, that being they were willing to redo entire parts and strip entire parts because it didn't meet the expectations of players. That tells me they are willing to do drastic things to make this game a viable contender in the online gaming world.

I don't think they would do something as controversial as selling "power" in the store, maybe later when the game has found its roots. That's not something i will write off but at launch i don't believe so.

To me Amazon wants this to be a success and they want it rather badly i would think after other failed projects, if that's the case Amazon's pockets are rather deep so could worry less about returns on their project in the first year(s) and more about getting plenty of people in their game, although this is very much speculation and they couldn't care nearly as much.

[Edge-]

To me Amazon wants this to be a success and they want it rather badly i would think after other failed projects, if that's the case Amazon's pockets are rather deep so could worry less about returns on their project in the first year(s) and more about getting plenty of people in their game, although this is very much speculation and they couldn't care nearly as much.

This is my take based on the reporting we've seen about their game division and what's happened with that first game that never made it anywhere, Crucible, and then New World with the big delays/reworks.

Amazon has deep pockets and is no stranger to massive, long burns with little to no return to establish themselves. It's literally how the company was built. I think they're pretty determined to get something out and build some momentum moving forward (even if the LOTR MMO is canned), and that they're not going to be insanely aggressive with monetization of the game.

Then again we haven't even seen what the store looks like so we're just making guesses based off of limited information now. This isn't to say that I'm super optimistic they'll nail it this time, but I kinda hope they do because I'd love to see another MMO/online game developer with deep pockets making high quality games.

[Fkiolaris]

Some credit should be given because you need to in my opinion also look at the overall design philosophy behind the game, that being they were willing to redo entire parts and strip entire parts because it didn't meet the expectations of players. That tells me they are willing to do drastic things to make this game a viable contender in the online gaming world.

I don't think they would do something as controversial as selling "power" in the store, maybe later when the game has found its roots. That's not something i will write off but at launch i don't believe so.

To me Amazon wants this to be a success and they want it rather badly i would think after other failed projects, if that's the case Amazon's pockets are rather deep so could worry less about returns on their project in the first year(s) and more about getting plenty of people in their game, although this is very much speculation and they couldn't care nearly as much.

That's how I see it, too. Unfortunately it's not a better POV for me, because all that means is that they want to get me hooked over the game so that they can start slowly implementing what could be complete BS store items.

[Acidbaron]

This is my take based on the reporting we've seen about their game division and what's happened with that first game that never made it anywhere, Crucible, and then New World with the big delays/reworks.

Amazon has deep pockets and is no stranger to massive, long burns with little to no return to establish themselves. It's literally how the company was built. I think they're pretty determined to get something out and build some momentum moving forward (even if the LOTR MMO is canned), and that they're not going to be insanely aggressive with monetization of the game.

Then again we haven't even seen what the store looks like so we're just making guesses based off of limited information now. This isn't to say that I'm super optimistic they'll nail it this time, but I kinda hope they do because I'd love to see another MMO/online game developer with deep pockets making high quality games.

That's how I see it, too. Unfortunately it's not a better POV for me, because all that means is that they want to get me hooked over the game so that they can start slowly implementing what could be complete BS store items.

Indeed, Amazon seems to be interested in promoting themselves as a digital entertainment company. So i am in the wait and see camp, if i get a new system build by the time it comes out i might take a look as i was not even aware it was B2P.

I don't see them adding actual power items over time as that is honestly something far too controversial and games have failed to come back from such strategies.
What i predict will happen is now with the focus on also more casual players is things like pets and cosmetic items, and later on i do think they'll invest in player housing and have that going for them.

Personally not a fan of a cash shop i rather pay a sub fee and be able to collect all items in game however often there are long grinds attached to that in sub based games, so you're paying one way or another. It all depends on the balance, will similar items (Think re-colors) be obtainable through just playing the game or will all exclusive items be in the store.