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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    I guess you only play 1 character then.

    Rating is a reflection of what you have done with this current character.

    Why I'm not able to get groups for layer 8 Torghast with my rogue because he's only 181, but with my 220 main, yeah no problems. I almost do more DPS with my rogue in Torghast.

    A character specific rating is stupid because it mean NOTHING at all, it should be account wide.

    Now, people will only look at your rating and won't invite you if too low. They won't do any research or risk anything, even at +5 or +10. Actually right now low level groups just look at your gear, now they will look at your rating, making it harder to get in groups when you are a new player or new alt.

    Yes, it will be good for higher content groups, but.. they can use the addons. It should not be available to all players.
    Rio shows ur main tho and I'm sure ppl will continue to use rio for thar aspect.

    And seeing your mains score is nice, but im definitely not inviting u on that alone. Idc how good u are on your main, you haven't proven yourself on your rogue. I see 1400 on ur main and I know that u understand mechanics and routes. I see 300 on ur rogue and that tells me uve done no hard content yet to prove u can use the rogues utility or mastered the rotation to actually do decent dmg.

    If mains score dsnt get added, ppl will still use rio as an additional tool

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    Yeah, sounds as great as when gearscore became a thing in Wrath.

    Just another toxic attribute to the already unbearable M+ community, but this time, it's standardized and forced. The only people that love this will instantly convey that toxic attitude, proving the whole point of why people are against it.

    I mean, they can go ahead though. Nothing like more barriers to niche content that will prevent casual people from wanting to go further in the game, adding unnecessary pressure to something that didn't need anymore.
    Why don't you just play better? then your io score will go higher

    ???

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhelyo View Post
    Its a bad move from Blizzard imho.
    Take me for example.I work in 3 shifts monday-saturday and i barely got time to log in as i get tired from work.Log in to do the calling of the day then go to bed for the next working day.I try to make a key every week just for the weekly vault,luckily my guild helps with that. I perform on par or even better than those who stay home all the time and got time to push their RIO and their RIO is double than mine. I am sure there are lots of people in my position.
    What i am trying to say is that RIO not always proves your abilities/skills in a dungeon.You can buy boosts to improve your score,or you can wait a simpler affix week and boost that score.
    The thing is randoms instant decline you if you got low score,not knowing WHY you got that low score.They invite someone which likes their score and that person can sometimes be an elitist or toxic which leaves them mid dungeon.

    I miss the days when you queue up and people take the class that they want in a dungeon,not the score.Blizzard decided to turn everything into rated like game.You have rated bg,rated arena and ever since gearscore/RIO showed up we have rated dungeons. This is not good especially if a portion of the playerbase will be affected.
    The score doesn't show ur skill. It shows ur experience. I dont know you. I can't pick you out from a sea of applicants and know you are amazing. But with rating I can see you've done certain content and then decide if that's enough experience for the dungeon. Q for content at your level and build score. Run your own keys and build score.

  4. #104
    Personally I'm glad they are implementing this. It's the best thing we have to gauge player performance since isolated server communities where you had the chance to get to know who the skilled players are and aren't got nuked by cross realm fuckery. Do i wish this system didn't need to be implemented? Yes. but in a game where you have to sift through people from all different realms to join your group, the io system is just more efficient.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhelyo View Post
    Its a bad move from Blizzard imho.
    Take me for example.I work in 3 shifts monday-saturday and i barely got time to log in as i get tired from work.Log in to do the calling of the day then go to bed for the next working day.I try to make a key every week just for the weekly vault,luckily my guild helps with that. I perform on par or even better than those who stay home all the time and got time to push their RIO and their RIO is double than mine. I am sure there are lots of people in my position.
    What i am trying to say is that RIO not always proves your abilities/skills in a dungeon.You can buy boosts to improve your score,or you can wait a simpler affix week and boost that score.
    The thing is randoms instant decline you if you got low score,not knowing WHY you got that low score.They invite someone which likes their score and that person can sometimes be an elitist or toxic which leaves them mid dungeon.

    I miss the days when you queue up and people take the class that they want in a dungeon,not the score.Blizzard decided to turn everything into rated like game.You have rated bg,rated arena and ever since gearscore/RIO showed up we have rated dungeons. This is not good especially if a portion of the playerbase will be affected.
    And what "days" were "those days"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    The score doesn't show ur skill. It shows ur experience. I dont know you. I can't pick you out from a sea of applicants and know you are amazing. But with rating I can see you've done certain content and then decide if that's enough experience for the dungeon. Q for content at your level and build score. Run your own keys and build score.
    Exactly this, and it's quite funny to me that people want information to be hidden just so they can have an equal (random) shot at a slot in a group as someone who is, at least on paper, more desirable to the group.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    It will amuse me to no end to see how scared some people are of information transparency.

    "I am very skilled. I don't have the numbers to prove it. But just trust me. You will be surprised"
    "Those other scores? don't believe them, they could have easily bought their runs. But me? I am legit and you can take my word for it"

    This rings too close to certain groups in real life.
    The only annoying thing will still be for returning players. I came back to the game and and it is nearly impossible to push keys even beyond +10 alone even if you are good. I only managed to get my ksm with a guildgrp, but people who dont want to have fixed schedules and play whenever they want to (aka queue alone sporadically) can have a really hard time.

    And the argument "why they need this, not everybody is entitled to etc" in my opinion belongs to 15+ keys and mythic raiding where you have to invest your time for it more often. But it's not blizzards fault, it's the community that take those metrics to the extreme an are min maxing on every end.
    Yes, the easiest and most reliant option is to look for some friends or a guild, but you also should have a fair chance alone more or less)

    on Topic: I like that they implement it ingame, since you have it anyways. Same with gearscore back then and ilvl. I f you cant get rid of it, better implement it

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    And what "days" were "those days"?

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    Exactly this, and it's quite funny to me that people want information to be hidden just so they can have an equal (random) shot at a slot in a group as someone who is, at least on paper, more desirable to the group.
    Theor argument usually devolves into "back in my day id just whisper the leader for the invite and the group would form and there were no problems". Like ya that was great when the hardest mechanic was dont step in the fire and u had 7 whole seconds to move from it.

    I just wish one time, anyone who claimed to be against rio could record themselves doing a +15 where theu invite only sub 300 players lol

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I'm just tired of everything in this game having to be some Rocky montage "eye of the tiger, rise up to the challenge and overcome!" type thing.

    There's just no place to simply relax, have fun, enjoy the world, get into some content without being scrutinized heavily, and come out with some rewards anymore.
    The game is filled with content like this.

    It just doesn’t drop the higher end gear since, logically, harder content drops higher gear.

    And with harder content comes a real chance at failure. And with a real chance at failure comes screening to reduce that chance.

  9. #109
    My biggest problem with raider.io is that people see the raider.io score as the goal to be achieved and not the content or gear. So what happens is you literally have people leaving before the last boss because it will not help their io score.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by thelordymir View Post
    Good, means I don't need to update my RIO addon constantly.
    it'll still be needed to show how many of which key level a player has done and show mains score for alts sadly the addon will still be required for that

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmysmitts View Post
    My biggest problem with raider.io is that people see the raider.io score as the goal to be achieved and not the content or gear. So what happens is you literally have people leaving before the last boss because it will not help their io score.
    Well, yeah. There's no reason to run any key above a 15 and even that's only needed for an achievement with a mount.
    Why run anything over a 15? Because it's a challenge that comes with score points that show you're better than other people. Disagree with the philosophy, but having a way to show you're good is desirable.
    Take Mobas, LoL or DoTa. Why grind out games to reach Diamond and or a high mmr? It's the same game, with no rewards beyond a number that says you're better than other people.
    Or, take it as a personal challenge. My raid leader is pushing for 1,900 this season. Could he tank higher? Sure, but he only runs in the guild and we're less than stellar.
    To your point of content or gear, this season blows for gearing, even with valor added. As for content, I'm sorry but doing Necrotic wake doesn't get more "fun" as you go higher and higher, it's still Necrotic wake.
    There are different breeds of people with different goals. I have plenty of friends who are happy to take literal months of raiding 6hrs a week to clear heroic, while also timing +15s in their spare time.
    I'm the type to do M+ at the bare minimum to get weekly gear, so I can do better dps for mythic raid progression.
    Do I enjoy Mythic Castle Nathria? No, but the satisfaction of killing the hardest bosses in the game does give me a sense of accomplishment.
    /end rant

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    I'm sure there will be an addon you can download to hide it so you can invite people randomly just like you did before.

    I'll just do what I normally do, start at Mythic0-2 and work my way slowly up when I start playing, Did it last expansion, will do it again this one. I'm not going to expect to be carried in high keys just because in MoP I was in top 50 guild clearing SoO. (Oh the days of having unlimited time to game.)

    I honestly don't understand the issue with it, but I guess that comes from me being use to grinding and trying to always improve myself regardless if I only play 5 hours a week.
    So I completely avoided the add on and worked my way up to 15 taking whoever I wanted and now I HAVE to get an add on because arbitrary number that really isn't necessarily a skill indicator is staring me in the face....

  13. #113
    just what the game needs, more division and systems to alienate and screw casuals.
    retail is a toxic cesspool of lame game play, lame no-lifers and self-entitled elite wannabes.
    thank god for classic. the communites arent much better but at least the game doesnt suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias1212 View Post
    So this ingame score doesn't show the highest done key in time and how many 15+ keys in time someone has done?

    If that's the case people will just stick to RaiderIo, this score is too easily abused by boosted players.

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    The problem with your argument is that said casuals could just play together and join guilds/communitys that don't require R.io.

    Everyone already knows they don't want to though, they just want to get boosted for free.

    Do you guys seriously think that if i just take anyone randomly into a 15/18/20 key they or the group will have fun if said player has never done something like that before? Seriously?

    "I think it's bad chess beginners can't play with the chess masters, it would make the world a better place and everyone would have so much fun"

    Yeah right...

    lol, dude. dont compare chessmasters to Wow elitist d&%$s. one takes intelligence and skill, the other takes no-lifeing a video game that caters to you and spoon feeds you crap that you gladly eat up.
    anyone can run +18 if they 'no life' the game for a bit like most of the M+ players do.

    not only that, but studying and playing with chessmasters is an amazing way to learn how to play chess well, so your point is pointless.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Djaye View Post

    lol, dude. dont compare chessmasters to Wow elitist d&%$s. one takes intelligence and skill, the other takes no-lifeing a video game that caters to you and spoon feeds you crap that you gladly eat up.
    anyone can run +18 if they 'no life' the game for a bit like most of the M+ players do.

    not only that, but studying and playing with chessmasters is an amazing way to learn how to play chess well, so your point is pointless.
    My experience differs massively from yours than (if you even have any) over the last months.
    You don't need to no life squat, you can get to that content with one single evening a week, you just need to find like minded players.
    And finding those is not easy because many players massively overestimate themselves and think they can just go into higher keys without doing anything like it before, in 99% of the cases they disappoint and miss any self reflection.

    I played my way up to KSM in a group of friends like that and RIO helped us a lot finding the right players when we had to fill, wouldn't be possible or a massive time waste without it.
    Last edited by TheLucky1; 2021-05-03 at 08:58 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    You pay to be able to play the game. In other words you pay for the privilege of participation. You are entitled to nothing. Dont like it? Leave.
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    The game is filled with content like this.
    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.

  16. #116
    It's nice that Blizzard makes their game so thoroughly unpleasant that I don't even have to consider coming back. Keeps things simple.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    I take it you've moved on? So why you still herw complaining?
    No one's complaining. And no one's giving you an award for defending the game either.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by luciano View Post
    It would be nice if Blizzard would stop catering to the 1% and start putting their resources into systems designed to help the 99% of players who aren't elite.

    I get that this company is American and America is all about building systems to perpetuate the existence of an undeserved elite, but c'mon already.
    Nice us vs them mentality, sounds quite American as well. Less ppl than you think are proper casuals. I'm a casual player, I do a few 15s on a couple toons each week. I invest about 6hrs max weekly. I wouldn't wanna play this game without a proper metric to evaluate ppl. I don't want to feel like im wasting time. As soon as I feel like someone is wasting the limited time I have playing a video game, I'm gonna log off. If you talk about some super casual ppl that don't give a fuck about character power/tactics/speed, then all I can respond with is a hard truth. M+ isn't made for that kind of player. It's a time trial. It's competitive. Don't do it if you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    As sad as it sounds, this will very likely be the case. Yet more catering to the hardcore and more perpetuating of the competitive e-sport mindset. Good to know that Blizzard doesn't want my sub anymore, won't have to waste the money.
    Great. Stay lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    I haven't done keys since Legion.
    Thank you for your valid opinion Kevin, you may sniff the glue now.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.
    Because it doesn’t give the best gear?

    Because that is kinda RPG staple. Harder content gives better rewards.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    "Every group worth joining" lmao, if you don't understand that elitist attitude ALREADY I don't know what else to say. I have very successful groups who don't care about raider IO at all. But, I guess it does because you said so, huh? XD
    What's your point? All you do is whine, moan, and cite personal anecdotes. That doesn't make what the guy said less true. The armory API won't go away, people will always find a way to screen other players and weed out the undesireds, and we will always have to jump through that hoop. Get a grip and accept that the entire world has changed drastically since vanilla. Games are played differently. Your pointless whining about inescapable realities is tiring to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    +1



    +1

    same, just UNSUBBED
    Great news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The "shitters" as you so mildly put it, also pay for the game and help fund its content. You might think it's a good thing when we're all driven off, but long term I doubt it would work out well for you guys.
    I also pay for the content, so why am I suddenly expected to carry bad players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I hate this addition to WoW. We don't need a built-in Raider.io score, we already have an addon that does most of that for us. I see a lot of negatives here without really a lot of positives to be gained from it.

    - New/returning players are going to have a far harder time finding groups for M+ keys with this, especially as the player base has a tendency to overdo their asks. This will probably help out for higher level key groups, but with this implementation it will quickly become a requirement for lower level groups as well. Given that the scores aren't shown for alts and some people currently spam run lower keys for Valor, it's not hard to envision a scenario where a 60 with the proper gear has a ton of issues finding a group for a +2/3 because higher level players are signing up. This will only get worse if Blizz resets the M+ scores with each major patch.

    - Plus, you have to remember that the list appears to be sortable, and group leaders will almost certainly then sort by that list. Which means that most groups will fill up by the leader choosing whomever is at the top of that list, with a small chance for some groups to skip that top entry if they aren't part of the current meta. In essence, that means that the current meta will wind up getting higher keys & higher scores, thus further reinforcing the idea that WoW has "right & wrong classes/specs" to play.

    - Even if you are a fan of this system as it is currently set up, one other thing to remember here is that Raider.io as an outside source has the capability to adjust their scoring quickly if certain dynamics change within the community. Constant deaths? Failed keys? People only getting their scores on easy weeks? Raider.io has the capability to quickly change the scoring setup if needed/desired. Blizz on the other hand is a large developer who already has enough trouble changing direction when things change and the community has needs. Much like the group finder was compared to oQueue, this feels like the sort of thing Blizz will set up once with half of what it could be and forget it exists while the community asks for changes.

    - It's also worth considering how this furthers toxicity in the community. Just look at the comments section anytime it becomes a forum for debate. Some people discuss the good/bad of the system, but it constantly seems to devolve into a "git gud" discussion where the higher level players say things like "Dont like it? Leave."
    K.

    /10char

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    You're right, we're entitled to nothing. The devs can make their game how they want, foster the sort of environment and community they want, and we're free to leave and not pay for it. Thousands of folks like me have already done so.

    But answer this, if there's not going to be a game for us, if all we have to look forward to is exclusion and contempt from the devs and community, why should we stay and pay for it? What is your game going to look like in the near future when it's not as funded and it is only filled with competitive e-sport elitists once all the casuals and lesser skilled folks are driven off?

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    It really isn't. When it's so gutted and pointless, it might as well not be content.
    Keep victimizing yourself please. The game sucks for all of us currently, and an m+ scoring system isn't remotely the issue.

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