[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Calfredd]

Large scale MMOs cost the most money to make, even single player games like RDR2 are estimated to have cost twice of what SC has currently spent on development, also cyberpunk is estimated to have spent more than SC in development also, with any company with at least the same amount of staff as CiG they would of spent the same or more money on development per year.

To make an interesting space MMO is probably the hardest challenge for any company to ever do.

So why are they bothering with trying to add all of these features when servers can only handle 40 players now? Wouldn't the smart thing to do be prioritize their special server tech and then start adding in the fluff and extras?

[Edge-]

Large scale MMOs cost the most money to make, even single player games like RDR2 are estimated to have cost twice of what SC

Including marketing, that budget was between $370-540M - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption_2

Even on the high end, that's still not "twice the cost".

The actual development budget itself is estimated to be between $80-100M. And no, don't link Dean Takahashi's piece on it the man is a fuckin idiot, completely unrelated to his inability to understand basic platforming mechanics.

also cyberpunk is estimated to have spent more than SC in development also

Not remotely. Witcher III was around $80M between development and marketing

We've seen on estimate that placed CP around $300M, but that appears to also include marketing expenses as well. Still below the current fundraising for SC/SQ42, which will need tens of millions of additional dollars (if not another $100M+) before either/both products are finished.

[Kyanion]

Who cares what other games cost. What matters is SC is crowd funded AND has the most ridiculous cash shop in existence. Whataboutisms are just trying to deflect.

[kenn9530]

Including marketing, that budget was between $370-540M - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption_2

Even on the high end, that's still not "twice the cost".

The actual development budget itself is estimated to be between $80-100M. And no, don't link Dean Takahashi's piece on it the man is a fuckin idiot, completely unrelated to his inability to understand basic platforming mechanics.



Not remotely. Witcher III was around $80M between development and marketing

We've seen on estimate that placed CP around $300M, but that appears to also include marketing expenses as well. Still below the current fundraising for SC/SQ42, which will need tens of millions of additional dollars (if not another $100M+) before either/both products are finished.

The develpoment budget for RDR2 has not even been said, all i can ever find is the first one had a 100 million development budget so why would RDR2 have the same, RDR2 would of cost at least what GTA5 took to develop so it should of cost at least double that to even start with since it took 8 years to develop the console version and an extra year to work on the PC version.

With cyberpunk even if the average salary was 20k at most and the same amount worked on it like the witcher 3 250 ppl, its still going to push past 500 million just from salary from 8 years of development.

Developing games these days cost a ton if you going for anything close to a AAA experience, so any company would spend a similar amount developing any game that has taken 8 years plus.

So why are they bothering with trying to add all of these features when servers can only handle 40 players now? Wouldn't the smart thing to do be prioritize their special server tech and then start adding in the fluff and extras?

SC is not just about the MMO, there is the single player campaign also which will be available a long time before the universe has been completed, and only a certain amount of ppl can ever work on a single project so it would actually be stupid to focus on one small section of development.

[Beazy]

Developing games these days cost a ton if you going for anything close to a AAA experience, so any company would spend a similar amount developing any game that has taken 8 years plus.

AAA games go through the entire concept, story, engine, content, refinement pass, bug pass, phases in a 7 to 10 year span, that's literal concept to gold bro. . . . . . . . .

SC still doesn't even have its underlying net code completed after almost 11 years. But sure, keep comparing it to RDR and CyberPunk, making the CIG management and development teams look even more inept than they already do. /smart

[Ophenia]

Large scale MMOs cost the most money to make, even single player games like RDR2 are estimated to have cost twice of what SC has currently spent on development, also cyberpunk is estimated to have spent more than SC in development also

But those games exist, right ?

[Advent]

I just don't get why they didn't just lay the groundwork for what they knew could be done, added some basic gameplay loops, and then release it in a reasonable time frame. Add the 'deep systems' in future content updates IMO. Just get something out, at least.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I just don't get why they didn't just lay the groundwork for what they knew could be done, added some basic gameplay loops, and then release it in a reasonable time frame. Add the 'deep systems' in future content updates IMO. Just get something out, at least.

Can't lay the groundwork for something that you don't know is even planned for yet.

The game started out as a relatively simple Freelancer 2.0, ie an arcadey space game. No complicated physics, no walking around planets or stuff, no heavy simulation. The Arena Commander module that came out in 2013 was already halfway there to a delivered game. But at the same time, Chris was throwing on stretch goal after stretch goal, and the game changed from being a simple Freelancer 2.0 to being this gargantuanly huge sandbox life simulator. Also, development was scrapped and rebooted multiple times as they shifted engines. Also they used an engine that made for good screenshots but was highly questionable. And now the game has spent almost a decade in development and the code is a mess, and people have been leaving the company so there is spaghetti code, and there is just so much stuff going on in the current game that the servers crash after a couple hours and the devs literally can't add any more stuff to the game without making it crash faster.

[Gorsameth]

I just don't get why they didn't just lay the groundwork for what they knew could be done, added some basic gameplay loops, and then release it in a reasonable time frame. Add the 'deep systems' in future content updates IMO. Just get something out, at least.

Because Chris Roberts regularly changes his mind and is a perfectionist so the foundations change.

Plus the current major obstacle that holds up everything else is the server meshing. Without that there is no MMO of the scale they want to make and there is no indication that this is a problem they can actually solve.
So they can't even make the base game at the moment.

[Cracked]

I could almost accept the MMO being in development hell for years if they had something to show for it in the single player Squadron 42, but delays after delays after delays and roadmaps to roadmaps to roadmaps later they still have nothing they wouldn't be scared to show their own community of cult-like fanboys, that's whats really worrying.

Like I even feel bad for the actual devs (not execs), because I know how fucking horrible it feels to constantly stepping on someone else's toes in code without any result. It just screams to me that there is no software architect to actually lead the project to continuous progress (or if they do, they are terrible at their job, either because of incompetence or because of grandiose plans which hinder progress just as much).

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I could almost accept the MMO being in development hell for years if they had something to show for it in the single player Squadron 42, but delays after delays after delays and roadmaps to roadmaps to roadmaps later they still have nothing they wouldn't be scared to show their own community of cult-like fanboys, that's whats really worrying.

Yeah it's pretty tragic.

I originally backed this project for the S42 singleplayer campaign, and I've pretty much given up hoping for its release. Over the past 4 years, word on S42's development has been very scarce. When the SQ42 roadmap came out, it painted a very grim picture, and it seems that SQ42 development was actually rebooted a second time and they never said anything to us. Then 2 years ago, the SQ42 roadmap stopped being updated at all. Over the past two years there has been pretty much no word on S42 at all. Chris promised that the SQ42 roadmap would be redone and that there would be a video. Half a year goes by. Nada. "What's the deal with S42?" threads were on the front page of the official forums every day during the first half of 2020. It wasn't until some gaming journalist opened up the SC official forums and saw one of those threads and wrote an article about SQ42 being in development hell (causing other news sites to post similar articles) that Chris finally came out of slumber and said that they were going to give us that video. More months go by, still nothing... and then in October, we finally got a video on SQ42! Except Chris dodged all questions about the actual overall state of SQ42 development, instead just showing off a little level. Chris promised that they would do a 1 hour SQ42 development video once every 3 months. It's been 10 months and we still haven't gotten another video...

I also feel bad for the actors that CIG roped into the SQ42 project. Mark Hamil seemed to have been really excited to do another space video game, but then years go by... and it's not coming out... and he's still being constantly pinged by CIG spokespersons to keep retweeting Star Citizen. And then at a certain point, he (and other SC actors) just stopped retweeting the game altogether (even though CIG keeps @ing him). They know it's never coming out.

[Redroniksre]

Every so often i come to look at this thread and it feels like i am watching people kicking a ball against a wall over and over again. Though at this rate i feel like the "There is no war in Ba Sing Se" comment is probably the most apt description of this game.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah it's pretty tragic.

I originally backed this project for the S42 singleplayer campaign, and I've pretty much given up hoping for its release. Over the past 4 years, word on S42's development has been very scarce. When the SQ42 roadmap came out, it painted a very grim picture, and it seems that SQ42 development was actually rebooted a second time and they never said anything to us. Then 2 years ago, the SQ42 roadmap stopped being updated at all. Over the past two years there has been pretty much no word on S42 at all. Chris promised that the SQ42 roadmap would be redone and that there would be a video. Half a year goes by. Nada. "What's the deal with S42?" threads were on the front page of the official forums every day during the first half of 2020. It wasn't until some gaming journalist opened up the SC official forums and saw one of those threads and wrote an article about SQ42 being in development hell (causing other news sites to post similar articles) that Chris finally came out of slumber and said that they were going to give us that video. More months go by, still nothing... and then in October, we finally got a video on SQ42! Except Chris dodged all questions about the actual overall state of SQ42 development, instead just showing off a little level. Chris promised that they would do a 1 hour SQ42 development video once every 3 months. It's been 10 months and we still haven't gotten another video...

I also feel bad for the actors that CIG roped into the SQ42 project. Mark Hamil seemed to have been really excited to do another space video game, but then years go by... and it's not coming out... and he's still being constantly pinged by CIG spokespersons to keep retweeting Star Citizen. And then at a certain point, he (and other SC actors) just stopped retweeting the game altogether (even though CIG keeps @ing him). They know it's never coming out.

After the Dec Chairmen letter where Christ flat out said they will not be showing anything from Sq42, I see no reason to assume the 'game' even exists at this point.

[kenn9530]

But those games exist, right ?

Star Citizen exists and is still more than enough to be considered a game even in its current version.

[Kyanion]

Star Citizen exists and is still more than enough to be considered a game even in its current version.

I don't consider it enough to be a game in its current bug filled, server melting and crashing state. And 'more than enough' lol. Okay pal.

[MrAnderson]

Don't forget the, "That's it?" comments from this update. Or after all this money this is how far the game has come? I wonder what got pushed back to make this small update even happen.

A "that's it?" about an update from someone who doesn't play the game or intends to do so is, ofc, irrelevant.

The bit you're missing here is that people are (rightfully) criticizing their use of time and funds, based on their slow progress

Actually they aren't relevant. Gamers who haven't backed or don't play said game are irrelevant to the development of said game. They are indeed, just trying to fit in. Barely

You're almost there....

Your dream game is? Hold on tight!

No, i am here to target CR and his game since he is a proven liar.

#lifegoals

Ships behaving as real as they can, see the end of that video

Games with physics have physics related bugs. More news at 8.

This is an interesting marketing concept. Game pre-releases some hype, trailer, kickstarter, etc. Development happens and the fans get to buy in, get pieces of it and get even more excited. Development goes on and on...current generation fans start to get old, spend a good deal of their newly earned income and still retain some hype. Development goes on an on, current fans grow out of it and their children become the new target. Devs release new trailer. New hype ensues for the NEW generation, development continues on and on.

Kickstarting or Early Access are not a new concept.

i cant get into the game. after choosing stanton system it freezes on the loading screen. wat do? got it installed on SSD and program files folder

Happened to me the other week, What I've found to work was go to character creation and change my avatar genre and then join a different server than usual. If it still persists try flying in arena commander free flight for a bit first then do the other steps. Last resort: do a character reset in the website, you'll keep money and most stuff.

You think your opinion on the game matters, others don't see it that way.

See what I did there?

No opinion here matters, it's just a game discussion forum, if the poster has no game experience or investment in the game the thread is about is opinion is just even more irrelevant.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, this isn't the issue. The game has value for those who feel like you do, that's fine. People can spend their money how they want.

The issue for me is that after 8+ years of development and over $300 million, the game is still only in alpha, with no real idea of when it might be at a state higher than that. One of the core systems for the functionality of the game isn't in place yet, and this is after several release windows have already passed (don't even try pushing your BS argument about no release windows being published, it's entirely in bad faith and disingenuous).

I know your answer will be "when it's ready!" but...how much longer and how much more money will need to be spent before this game is in a releasable state?

The game is not "still" in alpha. The game is already in alpha and doing better than many other "released" games of the same genre.

The time or money it takes is irrelevant. Just like it's irrelevant how much GTA6 is taking or how long GTA7 will take after it.

Only problem you seem to have is wanting a game like Star Citizen and having no option to wait for it.

As a possible consumer, this game is a joke now. I am not excited, I am not interested in the gameplay, if there is any. The ships are pretty but looking at rendered ship photos is not a game. This "vaporware's" time has come and gone, now it's just a joke. I know I'm not the only one that when I see "Star Citizen" anywhere, I know it's not good news, I click on it to see how the dumpster fire has gotten worse and laugh at it. It's like some macabre fascination of watching a disaster from afar. Sure you can make a lot of money out of "scamming" people but your legacy developing this game will always and be forever be a joke and a failure in most people's eyes.

Even in some reality where this game were to come out as an amazing release, I don't see how a follow-up via patches and anything else could be anything but a disappointment given the handling on the main game. What is even the main game anymore anyway?

As someone who've backed the game and enjoys it right now and has played it for years the only joke is the ones thriving for it but that are still too insecure and afraid to jump in. You've let ignorance shape your judgement and that's ok. The game doesn't need more of that and the community has very low tolerance for snowflakes.

He's been shot down by pretty much everyone every time he pushes the argument that no release windows have ever been published. If he tries it again, he'll just look like a clown again.

Reminds me of that guy putting on clown make-up meme every time I see him arguing that shit.

Ken's right when he states: No official release date has ben published. .

There have been estimated year window's of release but no "official release date". An official release date involves specific months and a day of release because it's tied to marketing agreements with physical publishers along with e-stores.

CIG is independently developing Star Citizen and Squadron 42. They have the leniency decide exactly when they will release their product.

That's a an amazing power. Specially considering what happened to the many games who've promised so much but ended up released unfinished for the sake of an artificial date.

So why are they bothering with trying to add all of these features when servers can only handle 40 players now? Wouldn't the smart thing to do be prioritize their special server tech and then start adding in the fluff and extras?

Their 1 single current server can hold 50 players along in a 400 quadrillion cubic kilometer sized map. That is while accounting for heavy physics calculations across macro and micro range without instancing / loading screens. 1 Star Citizen server with 50 people has more calculations than a 2500 WoW server which segments it's load into several small instances.

Who cares what other games cost. What matters is SC is crowd funded AND has the most ridiculous cash shop in existence. Whataboutisms are just trying to deflect.

GTA Online , FIFA, Fortnite and Mobile games say hello.

AAA games go through the entire concept, story, engine, content, refinement pass, bug pass, phases in a 7 to 10 year span, that's literal concept to gold bro. . . . . . . . .

SC still doesn't even have its underlying net code completed after almost 11 years. But sure, keep comparing it to RDR and CyberPunk, making the CIG management and development teams look even more inept than they already do. /smart

These AAA games also had to have a company grow enough to be able to do them. Yet none of those have yet attempted (that we know) to make a game like Star Citizen so ultimately they are, irrelevant.

I just don't get why they didn't just lay the groundwork for what they knew could be done, added some basic gameplay loops, and then release it in a reasonable time frame. Add the 'deep systems' in future content updates IMO. Just get something out, at least.

Have you played it? There's another Free Fly event coming up. More gameplay loops than most space games of it's genre already.

Can't lay the groundwork for something that you don't know is even planned for yet.

The game started out as a relatively simple Freelancer 2.0, ie an arcadey space game. No complicated physics, no walking around planets or stuff, no heavy simulation. The Arena Commander module that came out in 2013 was already halfway there to a delivered game. But at the same time, Chris was throwing on stretch goal after stretch goal, and the game changed from being a simple Freelancer 2.0 to being this gargantuanly huge sandbox life simulator. Also, development was scrapped and rebooted multiple times as they shifted engines. Also they used an engine that made for good screenshots but was highly questionable. And now the game has spent almost a decade in development and the code is a mess, and people have been leaving the company so there is spaghetti code, and there is just so much stuff going on in the current game that the servers crash after a couple hours and the devs literally can't add any more stuff to the game without making it crash faster.

Mostly everything you said was wrong. Game pitch was next-gen Wing Commander pitch to established game studios with the Star Citizen online spin off only going forward to kickstart the crowdfunding campaign.

From the get go the game always pitched has relying on physics and walking around planets (not full procedural planets though).

Arena Commander was no where near a "halfway there to delivered game". There was a small 8km x 8km map that could hold 4 ships.

The community backing pushed Chris Roberts to extend the crowdfunding campaign and the stretch goals. Not the way around.

It only went from small instance gameplay universe to full blown mmo universe without instances in 2014 when they got the money flowing and the internal OK from Crytek developers that Crytek Frankfurt was going under and the dev's there would join CIG. Which happened in 2015.

No "shift" of engines occured, they've been always working on the very same Cryengine fork Chris Roberts bought the license of back in 2011/12 and have iterated from it.

The main engineers and dev's of the engine are still working for CIG. The ones who coded the very first pages of the engine Star Citizen is build upon are still heavily working with the company.

I don't know if you're on a mission but your last posts have been nothing but lies and misconceptions. Desperate much or ignorant much.

Yeah it's pretty tragic.

Indeed it is.

I could almost accept the MMO being in development hell for years if they had something to show for it in the single player Squadron 42, but delays after delays after delays and roadmaps to roadmaps to roadmaps later they still have nothing they wouldn't be scared to show their own community of cult-like fanboys, that's whats really worrying.

Like I even feel bad for the actual devs (not execs), because I know how fucking horrible it feels to constantly stepping on someone else's toes in code without any result. It just screams to me that there is no software architect to actually lead the project to continuous progress (or if they do, they are terrible at their job, either because of incompetence or because of grandiose plans which hinder progress just as much).

I don't consider it enough to be a game in its current bug filled, server melting and crashing state. And 'more than enough' lol. Okay pal.

More of a game of whatever you still play. Considering the attention you give it that is.

Which is no surprise really, Star Citizen alpha is pretty amazing as it is now:



There's been plenty shown about Squadron 42, way more than any typical AAA game or any other crowdfunded MMO game.

[Kyanion]

More of a game of whatever you still play. Considering the attention you give it that is.

Yes the couple minutes a day I check out this post is sooooo much attention. And SC is more of a game than WoW? Cool story. I mean it is fucking wrong, but cool.

- - - Updated - - -

There's been plenty shown about Squadron 42, way more than any typical AAA game or any other crowdfunded MMO game.

Uh huh sure there has been. "Plenty". Wasn't this thing greyboxxed years ago? lol

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A "that's it?" about an update from someone who doesn't play the game or intends to do so is, ofc, irrelevant.

For being irrelevant you sure have to comment on every post I make. Why is that?

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Ken's right when he states: No official release date has ben published. .

Here we fucking go again. Someone want to repost CR's videoes from a few pages back?

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GTA Online , FIFA, Fortnite and Mobile games say hello.

You do understand what a whataboutism is yes? Again, none of those care crowd funded and none of them have cash shops as bad as SC. Show me again the 27k version of SC's ship in Fifa or Fortnite? K.

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I don't know if you're on a mission but your last posts have been nothing but lies and misconceptions.

The irony of this post kills me.

[banmebaby]

It was a pill, not a suppository, and red was the right choice.

[dwarven]

Here's my take on SC after having been very involved with its development for some time now.

Having been a backer for several years, the game has significantly improved since when I first started in 2017. There was only 1 planet to land on and it was essentially unplayable. Now, I can get 60 fps in most areas, and 3.13 seems to have fixed a lot of game breaking bugs. Still, I think the intended scope for the game is way too big. It will take 10 more years before it's even close to being what CR has envisioned.

Servers are currently limited to 50 players, which makes the huge sprawling landscapes feel completely lifeless, especially since there is no fauna to speak of. Player made outposts and improved server tech will improve the lifeless feeling the game has. They want to scale servers up to 1000 players over time, and I think they can do it. When I first started I was skeptical that they'd ever be able to get the game into a playable state, but they definitely have. I think they will deliver on a lot of their other promises too, it will just take a long time to get there.

Another big problem the game has is that many of the big professions are not in yet. Medical, farming, base building, science, data running, scavenging etc.. are not in the game. They need to get these out there so there is an actual game to play. Mining is in already, and I enjoy it, but it isn't enough.

There's also the issue of bugs. I would play far more often if it wasn't for the fact that you can lose your entire mineral haul because of a game crash.

[Calfredd]

Here's my take on SC after having been very involved with its development for some time now.

Having been a backer for several years, the game has significantly improved since when I first started in 2017. There was only 1 planet to land on and it was essentially unplayable. Now, I can get 60 fps in most areas, and 3.13 seems to have fixed a lot of game breaking bugs. Still, I think the intended scope for the game is way too big. It will take 10 more years before it's even close to being what CR has envisioned.

Servers are currently limited to 50 players,

Actually it was recently dropped to 40 people.