In-game Raider.io score

[Necromantic]

mostly that is asked to make sure you actually control when you play and not your parents...

He said they would accept a 16 year old but not a 15 year old. Both are minors.

[ellieg]

No, I'm not linking anything. I don't need to prove anything and I'd rather not have a stalker.

Yes, a +15 may be "harder" (depending on your definition of the word) but the fact still remains that the way it's designed, it encourages alienation. That fact cannot be denied. As stated, I do not directly but indirectly blame the addon.



That may be you but you're definitely not a majority by any means. And as you said, anecdotal. I have Horde and Alliance characters on different servers and the results on both are the same.

That being said, "nonsense" is an incorrect word.



CC was needed back then. Don't believe what Google or whoever fed you otherwise.

And gearchecks may have been done but it was laughable in Cata and would have been even more so before that.

So you're most likely another person talking about something you don't have experience in lmao. Pretty typical for these forums.

And CC was only "needed" because players were awful. You can look on classic wow right now and chain pull the dungeon without cc. Player skill overall is so much better. Unfortunately some ppl never improved and thankfully we have RIO to keep them out of our groups fir content that requires at least a little bit of skill.

[Necromantic]

So you're most likely another person talking about something you don't have experience in lmao. Pretty typical for these forums.

No... I clearly said I was. I don't know how you came to that conclusion? Do you want me to link to where I said?

And CC was only "needed" because players were awful. You can look on classic wow right now and chain pull the dungeon without cc. Player skill overall is so much better. Unfortunately some ppl never improved and thankfully we have RIO to keep them out of our groups fir content that requires at least a little bit of skill.

Classic =/= Vanilla. We all know this. Once Classic came out, there were thousands of videos on how to do/cheese content that we did not have all those years ago. Kinda like retro gaming. You see people zipping through Mario 3 in 11 min without taking a single hit. That didn't happen back when the game was relevant. People practiced that for years.

- - - Updated - - -

lol... you know that classic exists? when i reached sm level i just went in there with a party full of mages... they pulled like 1/3 of the instance in one go and just aoe everything down...

Read above. Classic =/= vanilla. We're talking about vanilla.

[chiddie]

A +15 is much harder than the original cata dungeons. You said you do keys higher than most ppl. Would you mind linking your char so we can prove that?

Besides the occasional mob that needs sheeped, especially during inspiring week, CC is done in the form of interrupts, stuns, and silenced now. Casting sheep once every minute per pull isn't hard. Making sure 2-3 priority spells per pack don't go off is harder.

Mechanics in earlier game was a patch of bad might spawn near u, don't stand it. Or mobs face cleave, stand to the side. Mechanics now are much harder.

Raids are harder for sure. Actual dungeons are way harder mainly because of the timer.

Take it away and you’ll have 1000% + people with KSM.

[Necromantic]

what is the difference between classic and vanilla? it's the same game...

No it isn't...

When vanilla came out, we didn't have THOUSANDS of Youtube videos showing you how to do/cheese content. Also, once Classic came out, we had thousands/millions of players who had already done all the content. They knew how to do it. It wasn't new/fresh anymore.

[ellieg]

No... I clearly said I was. I don't know how you came to that conclusion? Do you want me to link to where I said?



Classic =/= Vanilla. We all know this. Once Classic came out, there were thousands of videos on how to do/cheese content that we did not have all those years ago. Kinda like retro gaming. You see people zipping through Mario 3 in 11 min without taking a single hit. That didn't happen back when the game was relevant. People practiced that for years.

- - - Updated - - -



Read above. Classic =/= vanilla. We're talking about vanilla.

You said you're doing high keys. But then claim dungeons were the same back then?

Its pretty similar. I played back then too. Except ud have melee warlocks, and mages casting frostbolt on aoe pulls, and rogues that didn't know about poisons. If you took the average m+ player now, and put them in original vanilla dungeons, they'd demolish them without cc

[Necromantic]

You said you're doing high keys. But then claim dungeons were the same back then?

Its pretty similar. I played back then too. Except ud have melee warlocks, and mages casting frostbolt on aoe pulls, and rogues that didn't know about poisons. If you took the average m+ player now, and put them in original vanilla dungeons, they'd demolish them without cc

Where did I say that the dungeons were the same? Don't strawman this as I'm not doing that to you.

And we can agree to disagree about the average M+ player. I've played with enough to know it's not that cut/dry. I've seen more screw-ups in M+ than back then.

that just means people were bad... not that the game was different...

Which supports my stance. People were not as great back then, so CC was needed. They didn't know that you could cheese that wall over there and skip 75% of the dungeon.

EDIT: Maybe not saying they were bad, just not as experienced.

[Bloodyleech]

CC was needed back then. Don't believe what Google or whoever fed you otherwise.

And gearchecks may have been done but it was laughable in Cata and would have been even more so before that.

I don't need google, I play since the early days. You did not need CC in Vanilla if peeps were just a bit decent and not complete afk-heads.
(Are you one of those that thought that Classic will be "hard"?^^)
The same as you do not need any world improving stuff in M+ if people are just half decend.
And Rio is exactly doing this: showing people who have atleast some clue, same as gear showed in the past.

Na, was not laughable. It was the way to go when raiding. Dunno on what server you played, but as other people already told you, it was common.

[Necromantic]

I don't need google, I play since the early days. You did not need CC in Vanilla if peeps were just a bit decent and not complete afk-heads.
(Are you one of those that thought that Classic will be "hard"?^^)
The same as you do not need any world improving stuff in M+ if people are just half decend.
And Rio is exactly doing this: showing people who have atleast some clue, same as gear showed in the past.

Na, was not laughable. It was the way to go when raiding. Dunno on what server you played, but as other people already told you, it was common.

We can agree to disagree on vanilla CC. I know it was used as I've sheep'd plenty of mobs myself.

I feel bad for people thinking they needed to gearcheck back then. I can't imagine how sad that must have been.

[Bloodyleech]

We can agree to disagree on vanilla CC. I know it was used as I've sheep'd plenty of mobs myself.

I feel bad for people thinking they needed to gearcheck back then. I can't imagine how sad that must have been.

Well, it worked out. Less people failing on mechanics or not dealing the damage they should be doing. More fun for everyone that actually wanted to put time and energy into the game.

[chiddie]

We can agree to disagree on vanilla CC. I know it was used as I've sheep'd plenty of mobs myself.

I feel bad for people thinking they needed to gearcheck back then. I can't imagine how sad that must have been.

He spoke about gearchecking in raiding. As far as I can remember pug raids were not THAT thing back then (maybe 10 men, surely not 20-25-40) and in that case I can agree that gearcheck was probably a case, but honestly I don’t remember gear checking in 5 men dungeons too. Finding a party was enough of a pita to bother about gear too.

[netherflame]

Sure, if you want 99% of groups to disband after one wipe, then that would be a great solution.

Seriously, people here put in 10 seconds of thought into their solutions with no critical thinking whatsoever...

Armchair game devs. Also you forgot about how they will endlessly drone when their terrible 'solution' isn't immediately implemented into the game.

[erifwodahs]

They need to look around at their party and comp and figure if he can pull like he does with his palls in +22 keys.

well, yeah, so that's what I mean. We won't know that unless we will know what rio everyone was, what covenants, what comp, what dungeon and what pull with what CDs were available. Doing massive first pull in NW is pretty common i.e. but if people can't interrupt - you are screwed.

[T-34]

And while you may think "but it doesn't affect you..." it still doesn't mean I'm not all for making good systems that work for everyone and don't give control to incompetent people. Look at what else it's done... it's brought out the worst in people. WoW has had it's history of toxicity but the way the system works just exacerbates it greatly.

How can an in-game experience score give "control to incompetent people"?
I mean everybody can make their own group and invite whomever they want based on whatever criteria they want.
Why can't the "oppressed and gatekept players" not man up and group up and get shit done in-game? Why do they need more experienced players to play the game?

People want to play with people who know what they do. This system greatly increases the likelihood that you will have a pleasant and non-toxic experience.
Such a system will allow you to increase your chances of filtering out the toxic, entitled players.

Added:
For players that care and respect the time of their fellow gamer raider.io is a godsend: It makes the game much less toxic as it helps you greatly to avoid the toxic, entitled players.

But I can agree with you that the in-game experience must have gotten much worse for the toxic, entitled players that have to play more with players like themselves. It can't be an nice experience.

[erifwodahs]

SNIP

Can I ask you, how did nobody do gear checks if Gearscore addon was the "bane" of WotLK? Bank inspections was a thing and TBC was full "300res min" premades.
Vanilla had same bank roof inspections, but it was way more rare because how noob most of people were. Fast forward to WotLK, game is 4yo and community started to apply it's filters and in the later patches even "link Light of Dawn" was a thing for 25 HC pugs in ICC and I really don't buy your

And the funny part is, comparing ratios, I've seen more groups fail while doing said checks vs when they weren't a thing.

try taking someone blindly into a +15 not even looking at ilvl and not looking at rio and then good luck.

Edit: OR invite someone into arena with no xp and some crap gear and let me know how fast you made it to 1.8k

[kaminaris]

It's always been a rat race. Gearscore, achievement linking, etc.

No. That is the point. It wasn't rat race. Rat race always happens at super high end BUT the game was not about it.

People don't seem to understand that wanting to play with people with similar experience IS NOT the same as labeling you as number.

The same way gear can be represented by numbers which makes it extremely boring. There is no fluid dps/survi slider.
However people skill cannot be represented by a number and that is what is completely wrong with rio.

[potis]

The annoying thing is that instead of simply saying “yes, you should be invited but unfortunately the design is flawed and you’re forced to push your key only “ you (not you in particular, a general you) just continue repeating that being declined is just perfectly normal like a mantra.

It isn’t. It’s hardly rio’s fault (infact I’m NOT against rio as I said multiple times) but it’s an issue indeed.

No, cause i said your logic if flawed.

You need to understand how massive the game is and how irrelevant your presence is, when you actually realize that, you will understand the problem.

The 99% considers AoTC/KSM as this "goal" to achieve.

Do you know the reality of those things and how irrelevant they are for an actually skillful player, do you understand what a snoozefest those content are?

Can you comprehend that there are depending on the period of the game, up to 50k-100k-300k people online daily in EU LFG with more qualifications than you therefor of course the xxx.xx1 player wont get accepted easily?

And you can realize, in those thousands of players, lets say 100.000 players, there are literal 20 different ranks of actual game "skill", and the rank 5 vs the rank 20 is literally night and day in terms of skill and knowledge and you are even lower than that in terms of Period of Game = Achievements/Ilvl/R.io?

This is what people dont understand and thats why you are being told, "Create your own groups and find a guild", cause you are not anyone special or you dont have any proof that you are special to be given the "Green light" to do whatever you want in the pug world.

The Holy Paladin with 3k r.io in every season before, and 5 cutting edges, and 2 gladiator titles has the green light when a new expansion launches can join whatever group he wants with his qualifications, and he doesnt even need to cause he is probably surrounded by similar players.

Your account with "500 transmog runs" and "Normal Throne of Thunder" the 6th month of its life as the only relevant achievements, does not have the green light to pug anything.

I know you still cant accept it, cause "ITS A GAME" or whatever else excuse, and thats why you will always be facing this problem since you refuse to adapt to the problem.

[Alroxas]

No. That is the point. It wasn't rat race. Rat race always happens at super high end BUT the game was not about it.

Agree to disagree ever since WotLK it's been a rat race where players looked at metrics to help determine whom they wanted to bring in for group content.

However people skill cannot be represented by a number and that is what is completely wrong with rio.

Technically it's not just skill but also knowledge. It's just not possible to have a high r.io score (800+) without sufficient prior knowledge of the dungeon (including boss mechanics to routes to target priorities per trash pack).

And if people's skill cannot be represented by a number... what the heck is PvP rating then? Think of r.io (or in-game M+ score) as a rough version of PvP rating but for PvE M+ content.

[Necromantic]

What makes you think your opinion is more grounded and in line with the majority of players? Fun fact, I also play both factions. Pugging M+ Alliance side is significantly worse and it has nothing to do with the addon.

Nonsense is the perfect word for your posts.

If you’re going to flat-out lie, go waste someone else’s time.

[T-34]

The same way gear can be represented by numbers which makes it extremely boring. There is no fluid dps/survi slider.
However people skill cannot be represented by a number and that is what is completely wrong with rio.

Rio shows experience with content. It doesn't show your "skill", but someone who has done a a certain dungeon on +15 many times is most likely competent, and most of the time competent is more than good enough.
When you pug your primary interest is to avoid the non-experienced entitled players, secondly your interest is to find people who have a proven record of doing the content you are going to do. And lastly you can only dream of getting a getting a super-skilled player.

So people that are using raider.io as a tool to filter people are people that are conservative and prudent with their play-time. Or in other words they are people that buy boring family cars and who always play low-risk low-rewards games and never high-risk high-rewards games.

Nothing stops people from using other criteria to pick which groups they join or whom they invite. You can pick a more "slot-machine" strategy if that suits you.
If that makes you happy, then good for you.

But trying to "force" other people to change the way they like to pick people they play with is not only a waste of time, but it is also quite rude and will only make the people that "you" try to "force" to behave in another way more set on not playing with people that try to "force" them to play in a particular way.