[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[taheen74]

Jesus. What a narrow-minded way of looking at someone who is unhappy with a casting that basically craps on established lore. Quite frankly I'd be unhappy if they cast a dashing young lad as Maester Aemon because it would make no sense, or cast an old man as Jon Snow, or hell Nicolas Cage as Superman. You wanna at least be in the ballpark with physical traits, and yes skin color is a physical trait.

When a character quite clearly diverges from their actual description to an extent that the only thing tying them to said character is the name in the credits, that's a pretty big problem to people regardless of race.

There are plenty of examples of race not mattering regarding castings, the most notable one being the Witcher where an Indian woman was playing Yennefer and did great.

You gotta stop assuming racism is the main cause behind people not liking the casting of a Black actor in a role where the character is supposed to be fair skinned with silver hair. Like, that's not even close to the character's physical traits lol.

Bringing up forbidden topics isn't allowed. Infracted.

I'm going to start off this by stating: i haven't finished the novels, however, unless it's established lore BY THE AUTHOR himself, then what's the complaint.

I am sure everyone that has ever read The Dark Tower series and saw that horrible "movie" get what I'm saying here.

In the novels, it is very well established by KING that Roland is a tall, skinny white guy. It's like a major subject in the second book.

The movie decided to cast Idris Elba (who did a great job, but was still wrong for the role). But, at the same time, to cover this argument, King kind of went and messed up years of theories by stating that he was a different Roland on a different level of the Tower.

Which has never made sense to me but I always consider it being the same journey but maybe with actual lessons learned or slight changes made. But then I saw that terrible movie and understood why he would say that.

I hate to say I was glad it wasn't successful because of a lot of different reasons. See, in the second novel, a black character comes into play and she's got all kinds of issues with white people (rightly so in my opinion) at first.

If the movie had actually been successful, I have no earthly idea how they would set all of that up. They probably would just have to drop the character (which is sad because she has awesome development).


So anyways, if it were an issue because it DOES play into future story lines, then yeah, I'd get the issue. If it bears no significance to the plot or at least some of it for other character development? Then oh well?

There is a difference.

[Skandulous]

Matt Smith, yes it is—he’s a phenomenal actor and I think he definitely looks the part.

He is really the only thing getting me excited for this show.

[Ihavewaffles]

I...can't even...

well, that settles it, ROFLMAO!

[Nerovar]

It's going to take a lot to get me re-invested into this story. I can't even get through half of the first episode of season 1 knowing how the story ends. I'm worried watching this might still have that feeling, even though it's earlier in history.

Yeah, people are so burned from the later seasons and that horrible ending that I don't really see how they can succeed here. It's fucked.

[Varodoc]

Yeah, people are so burned from the later seasons and that horrible ending that I don't really see how they can succeed here. It's fucked.

Indeed, I'm not even surprised that they cancelled the Long Night prequel. Like, who wants to watch a prequel about the White Walkers when you know that these people would end up being exterminated by one girl?

[jonnysensible]

i think this house of the dragon thing is going to tank really hard. I know they are obliged to chase some bucks but hmmmm

some more shots




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[Puupi]

What is this black targaryen thing....?

Attempting to derail threads into forbidden topics isn't allowed. Infracted.

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Attempting to derail threads into forbidden topics isn't allowed. Infracted.

@Faltemer
Excuse me what? Fuck you. It's a legit question.

The phrase "blood of the dragon" refers to the Valyrian descent of the Targaryens, and more specifically to the fact that they were one of forty dragonlord families of Valyria.[5] The typical Targaryen features remind strongly of the typical Valyrian features: pale skin, silver, platinum, or gold hair and eyes in a variety of shades of purple, or light blue.[6][7]

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Targaryen

Also, a direct quote from George R.R. Martin:

[R]ight from the start I wanted the Targaryens, and by extension the Valryians from whom they were descended, to be a race apart, with distinctive features that set them apart from the rest of Westeros, and helped explain their obsession with the purity of their blood. To do this, I made a conventional ‘high fantasy’ choice, and gave them silver-gold hair, purple and violet eyes, fine chiseled aristocratic features. That worked well enough, at least in the books (on the show, less so).But in recent years, it has occurred to me from time to time that it might have made for an interesting twist if instead I had made the dragonlords of Valyria… and therefore the Targaryens… black. Maybe I could have kept the silver hair too, though… no, that comes too close to ‘dark elf’ territory, but still… if I’d had dark-skinned dragonlords invade and conquer and dominate a largely white Westeros… though that choice would have brought its own perils. The Targaryens have not all been heroic, after all… some of them have been monsters, madmen, so…
Well, it’s all moot. The idea came to me about twenty years too late.

https://winteriscoming.net/2019/10/16/george-r-r-martin-considered-making-targaryens-black/

GRRM considered making Targaryens black, but made them white instead. And distinctively pure bled white to distinguish them from the other peoples of Westeros.

So I ask again, what is this black Targaryen thing in the show?

[Easo]

Is that supposed to be a Targaryen? Or was that the best makeup they could make?
P.S.
Also Puupi has a point. Yes yes, do not discuss moderation, blahhhh.

Attempting to derail threads with forbidden topics isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Faltemer]

I am just going to point this out once, to attempt to dissuade further infractions. That character isn't a Targaryen.

Regardless this is not the place for discussions about race, gender, sexuality, or politics in general. If you want to discuss how those things interact with a particular piece of media you can do so in GenOT.

[Kellorion]

this is exactly the place, its the thread about the show

and how do you know that the actor/character in question isnt?

[Isilrien]

this is exactly the place, its the thread about the show

and how do you know that the actor/character in question isnt?

This is supposition right now but: "Insiders said that actor Danny Sapani might take the role of Lord Corlys Valaryon, a.k.a. 'The Sea Snake.'" Source: https://popculture.com/tv-shows/news...ain-character/

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

A Targaryen not, but a Velaryon of similar Valyrian origin yes.

[Adamas102]

Also, a direct quote from George R.R. Martin:
https://winteriscoming.net/2019/10/16/george-r-r-martin-considered-making-targaryens-black/

GRRM considered making Targaryens black, but made them white instead. And distinctively pure bled white to distinguish them from the other peoples of Westeros.

So based on that quote their skin color is kind of irrelevant. They could have been white, they could have been black. What GRRM is saying is that it was just a literary device and fantasy trope used to set them apart from the other people of Westeros. That being the case, you could just as easily pick amongst any of the features GRRM noted without taking all of them. Hell, there are plenty of white people in Westeros so a Valyrian's skin color isn't even what sets them apart anyway. It's really the hair and the eyes that serve the purpose that the author intended as unique features.

Black Valyrians are clearly not in contradiction with what the author intended. You can change a lot of details when adapting a story while still maintaining the spirit of the source material.

Anyway, I can't say I'm particularly excited about this show what with the bad taste left behind by the end of the first series. If it's well reviewed once it's out I might watch.

[deenman]

Indeed, I'm not even surprised that they cancelled the Long Night prequel. Like, who wants to watch a prequel about the White Walkers when you know that these people would end up being exterminated by one girl?

being killed by one girl wasnt the problem,its been hinted at all along,the issues with season 8 are way to many to even atempt to list,but that specific one isnt one of them

the thing that annoyed me the most was how we got literaly nothing relevant about the night king besides how he was made...i mean seriously...the most interesting and mysterious character in the show and we get....NOTHING?

[RobertoCarlos]

being killed by one girl wasnt the problem,its been hinted at all along,the issues with season 8 are way to many to even atempt to list,but that specific one isnt one of them

the thing that annoyed me the most was how we got literaly nothing relevant about the night king besides how he was made...i mean seriously...the most interesting and mysterious character in the show and we get....NOTHING?

excuse me what foreshadowing did they do for that??

some vague statement about eye color they ham fisted into the ending with the red witch?

[Adamas102]

being killed by one girl wasnt the problem,its been hinted at all along,the issues with season 8 are way to many to even atempt to list,but that specific one isnt one of them

Of course it was a problem. The choice to go with Arya as the Night King killer was done purely for subversion of expectations. Benioff and Weiss were very open about all the dumb decisions they made after running out of source material. That's why the last few seasons shifted from a character driven narrative to a story driven driven one. Everyone just became pawns to move around the board in order to hit various story beats which in turn led to a lot of moments that seemed forced or made no sense.

[deenman]

excuse me what foreshadowing did they do for that??

some vague statement about eye color they ham fisted into the ending with the red witch?

besides the plethora of season 8 and 7 hints witch i guess people can dismiss because thats when they decided on it,we also have these much older ones

what the hound saw in the fire,its what led him to save her and go to winterfell himself

the lord of light kept beric alive so he could save arya,then he dies for good

catpaw dagger

plenty of foeshadowing about her combat like in s1 when she said ''i can be quick'',or how she sneaks behind the boys in s1 and shoots the arrow when bran is shown unable to perform as a warrior

all along she has been trained and preparing for something,the hound even specificaly mentioned to go for the heart,also everything and everyone has somehow protected her from the start

also jon killing nk would really have been silly,hes no amazing fighter,he was good among the watch made out of random cutthroats,and even among them some were able to kick his ass,jon doesnt even make it in a top 15 list of got warriors

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Of course it was a problem. The choice to go with Arya as the Night King killer was done purely for subversion of expectations. Benioff and Weiss were very open about all the dumb decisions they made after running out of source material. That's why the last few seasons shifted from a character driven narrative to a story driven driven one. Everyone just became pawns to move around the board in order to hit various story beats which in turn led to a lot of moments that seemed forced or made no sense.

im pretty sure they were told the ending by george,the end beats are likely how the book ends

dany dead by jon,bran king,arya kils nk etc

but they wanted to rush it and get it done so they whent about it as fast as posible and thats what ruined everything,characters acting out of character etc

[Adamas102]

im pretty sure they were told the ending by george,the end beats are likely how the book ends

dany dead by jon,bran king,arya kils nk etc

but they wanted to rush it and get it done so they whent about it as fast as posible and thats what ruined everything,characters acting out of character etc

No one but the people in question seem to know for sure what he told them, but Benioff and Weiss (and even some of the actors) were very clear that the decision to have Arya kill the Night King was made quite late in the show (after GRRM stopped being actively involved) so it seems unlikely that it was part of the outline they were given at the very beginning.

Perhaps they were told "Jon kills Dany" and "The NK is killed by a special weapon". The show would match those beats, but the intent could also have been that Jon's story mirrors the legend of Azor Ahai, where Dany is a sacrifice rather than a rabid animal needing to be put down and Jon kills the Night King with his magic sword.

We'll never really know till the year 2052 when the zombie of George RR Martin finally completes the book series, but I'd wager that there will be a lot of major differences between how the books and the shows end.

[deenman]

No one but the people in question seem to know for sure what he told them, but Benioff and Weiss (and even some of the actors) were very clear that the decision to have Arya kill the Night King was made quite late in the show (after GRRM stopped being actively involved) so it seems unlikely that it was part of the outline they were given at the very beginning.

Perhaps they were told "Jon kills Dany" and "The NK is killed by a special weapon". The show would match those beats, but the intent could also have been that Jon's story mirrors the legend of Azor Ahai, where Dany is a sacrifice rather than a rabid animal needing to be put down and Jon kills the Night King with his magic sword.

We'll never really know till the year 2052 when the zombie of George RR Martin finally completes the book series, but I'd wager that there will be a lot of major differences between how the books and the shows end.

well ofc the actors wouldnt know

and its likely that george only told beni and weiss the end points right when s8 was in production as they decided to wrap it up fast,he wouldnt tell them until he had to

they followed his script in the early seasons with some changes wile not knowing what he ultimately had planned

[Varodoc]

being killed by one girl wasnt the problem,its been hinted at all along,the issues with season 8 are way to many to even atempt to list,but that specific one isnt one of them

the thing that annoyed me the most was how we got literaly nothing relevant about the night king besides how he was made...i mean seriously...the most interesting and mysterious character in the show and we get....NOTHING?

No, it's never been hinted, literally no one before S8 thought Arya was going to destroy all White Walkers because it wasn't hinted anywhere.