Great Vault, Random? No Way

[Yakut]

No, they are games of chance. Games of chance aren't inherently gambling. By calling it gambling, you introduce connotations that aren't fitting the situation.

Addenia called it gambling - even a casino. I was responding to that.

[MrLachyG]

Yes that's more likely. But we cant be certain. Blizzards RNG has been bugged in the past.

Has it? I want examples

[Zellas]

Has it? I want examples

Back in the days of WotLK one of my alts was literally cursed to find himself in Oculus whenever I queued him up for a random heroic.
The mounts weren't account-wide yet, and I wanted to get that accursed drake on my main, but it never dropped. But my hunter alt had four of those stashed in the bank.
At some point I decided to find out just how often do I get sorted to Oculus by a seemingly 'random' queue. I've spent three days by queueing up for a random heroic, waiting, accepting the invite and then instantly leaving the dungeon to wait out Deserter debuff and queue up for another heroic. I made a total of sixty (60) runs, and by then the statistics I've gathered was troubling already.
There were 13 random heroics back then (ToC was out, but ICC was yet to be released), so the chance to be sorted in a specific one was exactly 1/13 (~7,7%).
Out of 60 random heroic dungeon queues I was sent to Heroic Oculus 51 times. With a 7.7% chance each time. Right.

Later that week I even wrote a post at the Billzord forum providing a bunch of screenies and an excel list I made for myself to track down every single dungeon queue.
I received the following answer, and I quote: "We see no reason why you would not want to run through the Oculus dungeon.", and my post was locked shortly afterwards.
Mmm-hm.

[Lochton]

What kind of Coding do they use in the great vault, i don't get it.

With my Horde monk first 3 items i got were all bracers, then 3 helmets in a row, now 3 pants
With my Horde Paladin first 3 item i got were all bracers, then 3 times the same trinket, then 3 breastplates

now i leveled a Alliance Paladin and today i opened my first great vault: Bracers


What a coincidence. What are the odds?

It is their RNG.

My first item was a helmet. The second one was bracers, the third chest, the fourth was a weapon token, the fifth leggings and it goes on.

Think I've had 2 bracers in a row at a point.

[Zellas]

This was never the case for my Feral main. This was never the case for my DK 'main alt'. This was never the case for my warrior alt. This only applied to my hunter, who already had a metric crapton of Oculus runs completed (and 4 extra mounts stashed for no particular purpose).

Like, that was a KNOWN problem, not a bug.

>Player queues for a RANDOM dungeon
>doesn't get sorted to a RANDOM dungeon, but rather to a specific one
>'Not A Bug'.
Duly noted for future reference.

[Yakut]

If you crack open a word's definition to fit whatever definition you need it to, then yes, red can mean blue and fish can mean four, but that still doesn't make those words make sense together in a sentence.

I'm going to assume you meant "Addenia" when you said "you". Because of course I didn't try to make the argument you were responding to in my post. I asked questions. Addenia is equating WoW to a casino and gambling. Is it a valid comparison? Probably not. It's a messy analogy filled with errors.

That said, I suspect Addenia's point was that it is a game of chance (or at least that would have been the better argument). And, should that prove correct a correct assumption on my part, Addenia should have phrased it better as such.

There's a point where quibbling over minutia just makes for poor reading and is very distracting from the original point. It becomes a meta game of who the next person can be to one-up the previous argument - and that's not a good use of time.

- - - Updated - - -

This was never the case for my Feral main. This was never the case for my DK 'main alt'. This was never the case for my warrior alt. This only applied to my hunter, who already had a metric crapton of Oculus runs completed (and 4 extra mounts stashed for no particular purpose).



>Player queues for a RANDOM dungeon
>doesn't get sorted to a RANDOM dungeon, but rather to a specific one
>'Not A Bug'.
Duly noted for future reference.

Well, it's not a bug. It might be a bad design, but it isn't a bug. The expected behavior in the case of your hunter is to receive a random dungeon. To be fair, the LFG system doesn't claim to be completely random. It only claims to place you into a group with the expected roles present in a dungeon. It is player expectation that it be completely random - but that was never the claim.

The system is designed to fill the group when an individual leaves prior to the terms of the dungeon's completion in addition to starting a new group with a new dungeon. You could argue that you'd want both options, but we all know that it would be exploited. In the systems world, I learned something many years ago: If something can be abused, it will be abused.

In any case, LFG and LFR are not random nor do they claim to be.

[darklogrus]

Sometimes it feels like that game gives higher roll value to the higher ilvl slots. I mean when you have 12 out of 16 slots that can see a upgrade from the three vault rewards and oddly every week its those slots that you dont need that continue you drop something does seem fishy.

Thats from the raiding side, on the M+ side it was 2 pairs of gloves back to back ontop of gloves I got from the M+ run I did in between the two and the 3rd week it was boots (which is my Leggo)

[GhostlyBG]

Well I am yet to loot a 226 weapon on my warrior and I've had at least 2 drops per week (on a lot of occasions 3 drops). I've already leveled 2 weapons to 220, and I've come to terms with the thought that I will not get a 226 weapon before 9.1.

[huth]

It is quite awe-inspiring just how adept you are at pointing out that "there is no evidence, I never said that, I merely implied".
I rest my case.

Not nearly as awe-inspiring as your ability to completely ignore what people say and throw around straw men that you didn't even bother to put a jacket on.

Try making arguments against what people say, not what you want them to say.

[Zigrifid]

First week of the vault i got a weap 210ilvl after all those months of boots and cloaks i got another weap ^^ im happy but yeah sometimes the vault is really messing us up !

[Azerate]

It is random, however that does not necessarily mean that some items do not potentially have lower drop rates than others. It was never really stated nor specified that every item has the exact same chance. It was also never stated for raid bosses, and based on data from aggregate db websites such as wowhead, we clearly know that some items are rarer than others.

But it's certainly not set up in some specific way to give you the same thing 3 times in a row just to piss you off man.

[Kuntantee]

RNG will be RNG. You might be right in the center of the bell curve like most players and have a decent experience or you might be right at the edge and get the worst rewards possible

Bugger off. If you did any programming, you'd know that randomness is "guaranteed" by algorithms and the most basic RNG, which is rand() (as explained here) will make sure the sequence of numbers look at least "artificially" random.

Great Vault is not random.

From most basic to most advanced RNG algorithms, the chance of seeing the same set of numbers again and again and again (unless you exhaust entropy/generate many many numbers) is extremely low. I will trust statistics over bunch of interweb knows-it-alls who think "random is random".

[Wuusah]

Bugger off. If you did any programming, you'd know that randomness is "guaranteed" by algorithms and the most basic RNG, which is rand() (as explained here) will make sure the sequence of numbers look at least "artificially" random.

Great Vault is not random.

From most basic to most advanced RNG algorithms, the chance of seeing the same set of numbers again and again and again (unless you exhaust entropy/generate many many numbers) is extremely low. I will trust statistics over bunch of interweb knows-it-alls who think "random is random".

You don’t roll the same number multiple times in a row because what you got last week doesn’t matter anymore in this week’s roll. It’s not like the algorithm keeps track of every single item that was presented to you. It’s completely separate rolls and with that you don’t have an algorithm trying to not roll the same number again.

If you come here all aggressive then at least know your shit.

[Kuntantee]

You don’t roll the same number multiple times in a row because what you got last week doesn’t matter anymore in this week’s roll. It’s not like the algorithm keeps track of every single item that was presented to you. It’s completely separate rolls and with that you don’t have an algorithm trying to not roll the same number again.

If you come here all aggressive then at least know your shit.

Making sure numbers are random doesn't mean memorization. For rand, it requires an arbitrary seed (doesn't need to be random, most of the time, it's system time). rand() will not roll same set of numbers, even if you roll it once a week so long as its properly seeded. And we are talking about the crappiest RNG. Looks like that post has gone well over your head yet you dare to tell me I should know my shit. Your initial sentence is a facepalm material, I have been rolling the same 3 numbers for months (bracer, gloves, back).

Anyone with a half brain who did bit of programming would tell you this isn't RNG.

[chop]

RNG will be RNG. You might be right in the center of the bell curve like most players and have a decent experience or you might be right at the edge and get the worst rewards possible

It is a complete hogwash when people say 'RNG is RNG'. It is what you have been told that it is 'Random'. The bean counters do not rely on pure randomness to achieve maximum engagement considering the current SL user attrition rate. This is the same way it works in a casino with slot machines, sure it is random with a finger on the scale tipped in one direction, so to speak.

Unless you have looked at the code and can first-hand verify it is completely random, then please quit spouting out nonsense. In addition there was an occurrence in WOW history where the players called BS on the 'randomness' of some drops, enough players observed this behavior and Blizz said it was indeed a 'bug'.

[huth]

Bugger off. If you did any programming, you'd know that randomness is "guaranteed" by algorithms and the most basic RNG, which is rand() (as explained here) will make sure the sequence of numbers look at least "artificially" random.

Great Vault is not random.

From most basic to most advanced RNG algorithms, the chance of seeing the same set of numbers again and again and again (unless you exhaust entropy/generate many many numbers) is extremely low. I will trust statistics over bunch of interweb knows-it-alls who think "random is random".

True random is streaky, though. So what you're describing is actually a bad RNG, not a good one.

[Wuusah]

Making sure numbers are random doesn't mean memorization. For rand, it requires an arbitrary seed (doesn't need to be random, most of the time, it's system time). rand() will not roll same set of numbers, even if you roll it once a week so long as its properly seeded. And we are talking about the crappiest RNG. Looks like that post has gone well over your head yet you dare to tell me I should know my shit. Your initial sentence is a facepalm material, I have been rolling the same 3 numbers for months (bracer, gloves, back).

Anyone with a half brain who did bit of programming would tell you this isn't RNG.

You do understand that getting the same item slot multiple times in a row doesn’t mean you rolled the same number, though? If I get a belt from ToP and the next week a belt from DoS, then that’s not the same roll. That’s what I meant with memorization. The algorithm doesn’t memorize the slot you got in a previous week and tries to avoid that slot. That’s not how it works.

[Th3Scourge]

In BFA, I rolled the same Azerite shoulders off the vendor 6 times in a row.

RNG is RNG

[Nite92]

I mean if someone got the same item 3 weeks in a row because of a flawed system... then I would say it matters.

Can I ask, do you play the game right now? Just curious.

I like how everyone instantly starts thinking that Blizzards algorithm is fucked, and not that OP exaggerated.

Millions play this game, things more rare than winning the lotter happens.

Also, OP could have easily calculated the odds. His scenario is roughly 1 in 10 million.

[TyrianFC]

What kind of Coding do they use in the great vault, i don't get it.

With my Horde monk first 3 items i got were all bracers, then 3 helmets in a row, now 3 pants
With my Horde Paladin first 3 item i got were all bracers, then 3 times the same trinket, then 3 breastplates

now i leveled a Alliance Paladin and today i opened my first great vault: Bracers


What a coincidence. What are the odds?

Hmm ive been a bunch of lotto tickets in a row.. and none of them were winners. What a co-incidence? Random? No way!!!!