Does WoW need a "Wizard" mode?

[Crimson Spears]

I didn't say legendaries weren't necessary for progression.

You said you couldn't go from dungeons to raids without it. That's not true. You can go to the raid without it. You will eventually want it for progression, but that is not synonymous with "you can't go to the raid without it."

But that's a given. All mythic raiders know that they have to get the best items in order to progress. This isn't surprising. It was the same when the MoP legendary came out. That doesn't make them required, whatsoever. Mythic raiders are always going to require the most out of people - Even Classic has that mentality now, so you can't even claim it's an expansion-based thing, it's simply an issue of the playerbase which only the playerbase can solve - By simply not giving a shit about it anymore. That's it.

I mean at this point your simply wanting to play word games. I can't believe you don't understand the conversation being had to the point you need to argue distinctions.

[LordVargK]

All the kids will whine to mummy that Wizard mode is too hard, and then Mums with Creditcards will complain to Blizzard, and Blizzard will cave in and nerf the difficulty..

We have seen that a thousand times, when they add hard content.

Honestly, it's not kiddies complaining. It's those that derive their value as a human from their achievements in WoW. Anyone who thinks he's good at WoW but is really not.

[taheen74]

I suppose I don't.. in my mind progression comes from tackling harder and harder challenges as you get better at the game.

Gear progression is a big part of that. No, Blizzard isn't going to just give you every single piece just because you might have downed the last boss in a raid. Shoot, even in LFR, I have to do a little something to get that piece.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Sounds shit

My god. I just opened this thread because I saw a word “Wizard” and I thought this is going to be interesting then I saw your post and my brain exploded. Hahahah

[Crimson Spears]

Gear progression is a big part of that. No, Blizzard isn't going to just give you every single piece just because you might have downed the last boss in a raid. Shoot, even in LFR, I have to do a little something to get that piece.

So then don't have it include gear.

[loras]

Honestly this would not solve much on its own, but it could be useful enough.

Personally i would go a lot further, and make everything unlockable by three modes of "achieving"; either through a test of skill, a definite grind, or,in keeping with traditional WoW loot, through the whims of rng.

Think of i.e. the case of earning a pvp BiS weapon.

Our theoretical rated pvp offers X points per week, increased by your rating.

At a baseline rating of "never wins anything, ever", these points accumulate so that you can buy that weapon after a month of exclusively saving up points for that weapon.

At a higher rating the rate of acquisition rapidly speeds up, perhaps even enabling you to buy it with one day's worth of points so to speak.

This way the weapon is realistically achievable for all, ensuring a decently level pvp playing field, while still enabling skillful players to get rewards suitably much quicker.


Additionally at the end of a game you may be randomly rewarded an amount of bonus points, to keep the rng-fans happy.

Similar systems might be devised for any meaningful reward, so long as this principle of allowing better players to access better gear quicker while not disallowing worse players to eventually engage them on a level playing field.

[bloodmoth13]

it wouldnt actually help the game itself. Dragging better players into newer players gearing schedule helps the game a lot. It helps teach the newer players and build community.
What you are trying to avoid would be detrimental to the game itself, even if it would be better for the individual.

Do i think they should? id like it but no.

[Crimson Spears]

That's one way to say "I can't argue against your point."

You argued legendary items were not needed for dungeon and raid progression... there isn't a point there to argue with since its so clearly wrong simple silence damns it.

The moderation is also designed to protect posters like you so pointing out in detail how utterly uninformed you are about the subject matter would have me receiving their attention.

Therefore in lack of that a firm dismissal is what is left to me.

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it wouldnt actually help the game itself. Dragging better players into newer players gearing schedule helps the game a lot. It helps teach the newer players and build community.
What you are trying to avoid would be detrimental to the game itself, even if it would be better for the individual.

Do i think they should? id like it but no.

Is that how raider io works? Geared players carrying lower?

I guess if there is enough gold in it otherwise this version of wow exists only as a fiction.

[bloodmoth13]

You argued legendary items were not needed for dungeon and raid progression... there isn't a point there to argue with since its so clearly wrong simple silence damns it.

The moderation is also designed to protect posters like you so pointing out in detail how utterly uninformed you are about the subject matter would have me receiving their attention.

Therefore in lack of that a firm dismissal is what is left to me.

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Is that how raider io works? Geared players carrying lower?

I guess if there is enough gold in it otherwise this version of wow exists only as a fiction.

Dont use it.
But having the top end players still playing the game allows progressing players opportunities to enter higher levels.
Basically if the top 50 people got all the stuff they want in one shot they would drop out because they want. The 51st player wouldnt have anyone to play with at that point other than people below him.
Players will come and go, grouping them together helps the community, which is why content gates can be a good thing.

That sort of stuff did happen though in legion where mythic keys were rarer so it was worth boosting a lower level player for a chance at more gear.

[Crimson Spears]

Dont use it.
But having the top end players still playing the game allows progressing players opportunities to enter higher levels.
Basically if the top 50 people got all the stuff they want in one shot they would drop out because they want. The 51st player wouldnt have anyone to play with at that point other than people below him.
Players will come and go, grouping them together helps the community, which is why content gates can be a good thing.

That sort of stuff did happen though in legion where mythic keys were rarer so it was worth boosting a lower level player for a chance at more gear.

I mean it didn't they were still around mythic guilds rarely go dormant since its even rarer they come pack next patch. You might not see them because they stick to their own but they dont just vanish

[Nalam the Venom]

Because you enjoy playing

that's just a pipe dream.

Most people lose motivation & will to play the very second the "Carrot" disappears or they reach their "Goal"

[ONCHEhap]

Some people just forget to enjoy wow. I was looking at my guild today just to see how many were tagged raider. So many have been offline for weeks to months. These were the guys pushing high m+ keys and raided at the highest level. They just burnt themselves out.

Come to think of it, I don't really enjoy wow at all either. I have my KSM, I have my CE, I just logon to see if I can get into a heroic and parse.

Yeah,a LOT of players are really just addicted more than they enjoy the game. And if they ever stumble upon a bit of fun,they'll do their best to optimise and minmax the fun out.

I'll always remember how in Classic WoW,several people I knew were doing that thing in Alterac where they just rushed games over and over again to get optimal honor gains. None of them enjoyed doing that,several of them were also genuinely looking forward to going back to the old days of several hours long Alterac matches....But because the unfun,quick way was efficient,they did that instead.
They knew they didn't like it,and they knew it ruined it for themselves,yet they couldn't resist the temptation of minmaxing the fun out of the feature they were looking forward to the most

[bloodmoth13]

I mean it didn't they were still around mythic guilds rarely go dormant since its even rarer they come pack next patch. You might not see them because they stick to their own but they dont just vanish

its extremely unlikely that the entire guild has literally everything they want from the current content. I do suspect that if they ever did they would just take a break till next xpac.

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reward structures exist to trick players into playing the game they enjoy.
If gameplay is in the way of your rewards you need to reconsider what game you are playing.

[Crimson Spears]

its extremely unlikely that the entire guild has literally everything they want from the current content. I do suspect that if they ever did they would just take a break till next xpac.

No they really don't because they want to raid in the next expansion. I'm not assuming things ive ran at a CE level for a decade guilds that kill all the content then log off till next tier are so extremely rare as to not exist.

Your beliefs are fiction

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its extremely unlikely that the entire guild has literally everything they want from the current content. I do suspect that if they ever did they would just take a break till next xpac.

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reward structures exist to trick players into playing the game they enjoy.
If gameplay is in the way of your rewards you need to reconsider what game you are playing.

WoW does dungeons and raids well. This filler content has no place to that audience and has been artificially inserted into the game. Maybe people enjoy it that is fine things like that can exist but don't let it become a chore for people who enjoy other elements.

Have these systems be a part of progression makes as much functional sense as having pet battles decide mythic raid fights

[taheen74]

So then don't have it include gear.

Pot, meet kettle.

You're the guy that thinks that he should get every single drop the first time he downs the last boss. Even we lowly LFR people aren't THAT entitled.

We get it, RNG totally bites. However the old system isn't going to come back either because Bliz knows the community can tend to suck when it comes to playing nice. That's why we have the personal loot system.

However Bliz forgot to change the way the rules worked mathematically or something for a lot of people.

Maybe suggest they fix the way the math works?

[Crimson Spears]

Pot, meet kettle.

You're the guy that thinks that he should get every single drop the first time he downs the last boss. Even we lowly LFR people aren't THAT entitled.

We get it, RNG totally bites. However the old system isn't going to come back either because Bliz knows the community can tend to suck when it comes to playing nice. That's why we have the personal loot system.

However Bliz forgot to change the way the rules worked mathematically or something for a lot of people.

Maybe suggest they fix the way the math works?

Can you show where you saw the post that convinced you I wanted that?

[Tiwack]

If only, it's not how subscriptionbased gamecontent works though.

[Depakote]

no. 10 chararcters.

[Drusin]

that's just a pipe dream.

Most people lose motivation & will to play the very second the "Carrot" disappears or they reach their "Goal"

If everyone unlocks everything there's no reason for the above average players to stick around. The average LFR mouthbreather should not be equal to the Mythic raider in unlocks.

Maybe to you, maybe other above average players enjoy playing so they will stick around regardless

[starstationprofm]

Maybe to you, maybe other above average players enjoy playing so they will stick around regardless

People aren't grinding Denathrius for 250 wipes because it's fun, they're grinding him for the prestige of the title and loot.