Draka and more Drakas

[TheFirstOnes]

I think we have a winner

What's the winner about that? It's just him memeing on her character without actually answering OP's question

[Maljinwo]

Draka and Thrall are for Horde. Where is something for blue side? :>

Tyrande and Jaina send their regards

[AcidicSyn]

That is not what i am asking though.
I just started wondering after reading the lore interview of danuser where he states, that all souls of all realities basically merge into one in the shadowlands.

I don't demand to see any character in the shadowlands^^

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I just don't want to create another thread where people talk in circles about hwo they hate blizz storytelling. I get it. People don't like it.

But, at least in this thread, i don't care about that^^

I didn't even say, that i think everything is roses. It isn't. But still not what i wanted to trigger here.

Well I do. Where the fuck *IS* Anduin Freaking Lothar?!? He SHOULD have been in the warrior class order hall back in legion, alot of people should have been there, but then they weren't.

If Uther was chosen for Bastion; surely effing Lothar would have been. Sometimes it feels like writers are under the impression that the story begins with Arthas. (Its the only reason I can fathom for why they reforged wc3 instead of 1 and especially 2- which I am still salty about, clearly.)

[Wangming]

What's the winner about that? It's just him memeing on her character without actually answering OP's question

I disagree. I think his answer is as true as any of them. And in a sense it makes more sense than the official "We have multiple timelines but not really"

[Arrashi]

The "many threads to a rope" analogy for souls in the Shadowlands is one that takes into account the fundamental eternity of how time functions in the Shadowlands. In a realm where eons are akin to days, Draka died only recently - it is likely that her many dimensional selves (however many of those there are) haven't yet coalesced within her soul, or perhaps Draka as a person is uncommon through the multiverse. Either way, it would appear that Draka isn't yet so multilayered that she cannot recognize elements of her prior life in our timeline.

That doesn't really work when we see garrosh being in ravendeth when we know that "Our" garrosh was the worst possible outcome. Where are milions of nice garroshes to put him into nicer afterlife?

[Aucald]

That doesn't really work when we see garrosh being in ravendeth when we know that "Our" garrosh was the worst possible outcome. Where are milions of nice garroshes to put him into nicer afterlife?

Since we don't know how the "many threads to a rope" system effects judgment by the Arbiter, we don't really know the answer to that one way or the other. This is also barring the notion that being a great Warchief and being sentenced to Revendreth are for some reason mutually exclusive, which we also don't know.

[dunkl]

Wouldn't the souls of individuals who haven't died yet, be in the shadowlands? We could be meeting/have met souls in the shadowlands who are still in their live bodies back on their planet? I bet some souls have been in the shadowlands for a long time maybe forever since time isn't a concept there, the soul would be in the shadowlands long before the person ever died.

A soul could be in the shadowlands before they were ever born.

Since Sylvanas's was probably pregnant and Arthas killed her and her baby (I think she was just pregnant with Lor'themar's or someone unknown's baby before all the bad stuff happened, and never spoke of it to them nor to us because it was so personal and tragic. It's also probably why she covered up her wound. It would put into place lots of confusing things such as her motives, mindset, withholding info, etc. If her child was turned to undead before it was born, it could have caused the Arbiter to not function or cope. Also, since time doesn't exist in the Shadowlands, maybe her son or daughter's soul was there before being killed/turned into undeath, and as a mother she seeks to give him or her chance at life, or to remake the Shadowlands into a fair place that doesn't decide for us that death is a reality, or a place where her son or daughter can 'live' and rule.

If a soul can be in the shadowlands before the live person was born in life, because of time/no time, Syvanas can meet her son's or daughter's soul there. Lor'themar or whomever finds out about the death/undeath of their child by Arthas is going to be mad and I can picture Lor'themar going ballistic.

[Maljinwo]

Sometimes it feels like writers are under the impression that the story begins with Arthas. (Its the only reason I can fathom for why they reforged wc3 instead of 1 and especially 2- which I am still salty about, clearly.)

Because that's the story most people are familiar with

I remember people asking who the hell Deathwing was when Cataclysm was announced. Even confusing him with Searinox because "That was the black dragon from warcraft 3"

[Combatbutler]

Since we don't know how the "many threads to a rope" system effects judgment by the Arbiter, we don't really know the answer to that one way or the other. This is also barring the notion that being a great Warchief and being sentenced to Revendreth are for some reason mutually exclusive, which we also don't know.

What we do know is all of them are condemned to Garroshs fate eventually, lets say he does not repent and ends up in the maw, that is were each and every last garrosh will go, because he is the prime one.

Whether they behaved like someone, like lets say Anduin.

[Aucald]

Wouldn't the souls of individuals who haven't died yet, be in the shadowlands? We could be meeting/have met souls in the shadowlands who are still in their live bodies back on their planet? I bet some souls have been in the shadowlands for a long time maybe forever since time isn't a concept there, the soul would be in the shadowlands long before the person ever died.

Using the current model, that hypothetical soul wouldn't be the one of the current individual still living. Say for instance an individual from universe A dies, and goes to the Shadowlands to be judged. The same individual from universe B doesn't die, and so their soul remains in the physical universe. Individual from A gets judged and goes to Revendreth. Individual from B dies decades later. Eventually, both the A and B selves will "merge" in the Shadowlands, but this process could take eons from our viewpoint. In the interim, individual A could be remediated in Revendreth while B is in Ardenweald, tending a grove or something. Perhaps one day individual A could overcome their faults and "merge" into B, or B could be dragged down to Revendreth for some reason. Perhaps the A instance becomes a Venthyr, a new entity, and their memories find their way to the B version. We don't really know the mechanics of what happens, only that in time the two individuals somehow share a selfdom.

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What we do know is all of them are condemned to Garroshs fate eventually, lets say he does not repent and ends up in the maw, that is were each and every last garrosh will go, because he is the prime one.

Whether they behaved like someone, like lets say Anduin.

We don't really know that, though; or at least it's not something I could infer from Danuser's interview text. It's equally possible that the "prime" Garrosh of our timeline could complete his penance in Revendreth (at least under normal operating conditions for the Shadowlands) and move on from Revendreth to wherever his other alternative selves were sent, joining their "rope" after a time.

[LilSaihah]

I would figure it's dreamy-weamy afterlife stuff that doesn't really make much sense but works anyway.

[Combatbutler]

We don't really know that, though; or at least it's not something I could infer from Danuser's interview text. It's equally possible that the "prime" Garrosh of our timeline could complete his penance in Revendreth (at least under normal operating conditions for the Shadowlands) and move on from Revendreth to wherever his other alternative selves were sent, joining their "rope" after a time.

It doesn't matter, it breaks the framework equally, one judgement ultimately overwrites another one, which makes the whole sorting process pointless.

[Pandragon]

Most likely how it works is that the first Draka to die creates the initial soul, then the others that die fuse into the already existing one and make it stronger. The fusing souls don't have a consciousness anymore, or live in their own little shadowlands type of area that reflects on their happiness in life. Just in case the soul they fuse into was sent to the Maw.

[Combatbutler]

Most likely how it works is that the first Draka to die creates the initial soul, then the others that die fuse into the already existing one and make it stronger. The fusing souls don't have a consciousness anymore, or live in their own little shadowlands type of area that reflects on their happiness in life. Just in case the soul they fuse into was sent to the Maw.

Souls are not created upon death.

[TheFirstOnes]

I disagree. I think his answer is as true as any of them. And in a sense it makes more sense than the official "We have multiple timelines but not really"

Except it doesn’t make more sense at all?

[Civciv]

I disagree. I think his answer is as true as any of them. And in a sense it makes more sense than the official "We have multiple timelines but not really"

blizzard storytelling 10/10

[Aucald]

It doesn't matter, it breaks the framework equally, one judgement ultimately overwrites another one, which makes the whole sorting process pointless.

The Arbiter's judgements aren't necessarily eternal on their face, either. Sentencing to Maldraxxus or Revendreth are obligations that can apparently be overcome or fulfilled through a variety of ways - the Shadowlands aren't static, and souls seem to move between realms, albeit infrequently. The judgment of souls (or aspects of souls) remains somewhat inscrutable and ineffable, so perhaps the goal is really bent towards this sense of unification, as it were. It's as equally possible as anything else.

[Pandragon]

Souls are not created upon death.

............ I meant the first version of that soul to get placed within the Shadowlands.

[Sunderella]

Why is it stupid?

Because if you add a multiverse and then you go an say that there is only one shadowlands for the entire multiverse you will get people like you asking questions that have not an easy answer. And because blizz doesn't care much about their own lore it would have been better for them to say that there is a shadowlands for each line of the multiverse.

Now imagine poor Draka. If the Draka we meet in SL has the memories of infinite Drakas, how many memories of her own death she has? Maybe there is one line where she wasn't killed. Maybe she also has memories of watching Thrall grow. Maybe even in one line she went full Mannoroth corrupted and was a monster. Or maybe one Draka didn't even have children. How can she even know what to believe or can she even not lose her f*cking mind with such a whirlwind of memories in her head?

Universe building should be kept as simple as possible to avoid situations like these where you end up with inexplicable situations like these. If Draka is in fact many different Drakas, why should she know or care at all about our Thrall. Is she like a schizophrenic with personality disorder where sometimes she is our MU Draka and other times is any of the other Drakas of the multiverse?

If there was a Shadowland for each universe, Draka would be our Draka. No further questions needed. I dunno man, I think that the less questions needed to understand the stuff, the better.

[Combatbutler]

The Arbiter's judgements aren't necessarily eternal on their face, either. Sentencing to Maldraxxus or Revendreth are obligations that can apparently be overcome or fulfilled through a variety of ways - the Shadowlands aren't static, and souls seem to move between realms, albeit infrequently. The judgment of souls (or aspects of souls) remains somewhat inscrutable and ineffable, so perhaps the goal is really bent towards this sense of unification, as it were. It's as equally possible as anything else.

Is that why it is mentioned again and again that her judgement is absolute? What is the point of having her in the first place, with her input being meaningless a few thousand years down the line, those who are sent to the maw for example are supposed to suffer for all eternity, yet they have other threads that are meant to join them.

............ I meant the first version of that soul to get placed within the Shadowlands.

What makes you so certain that Maldraxxus Draka was the first to die? Alternate universes are born and collapse all the time