[FILM] Red Sonja Adaptation to Star Hannah John-Kamen

[ZazuuPriest]

Criticism of the choice of actor/actress based upon the reasons why the character being portrayed was popular to begin with should be fair game.
Red Sonja became the inspired meme for "chicks in chainmail." Were Christina Hendricks younger and toned she'd fit the role.

Christina Hendricks is not fit at all her tits are massive it takes more than that to be red sonja

[Polyxo]

Christina Hendricks is not fit at all her tits are massive it takes more than that to be red sonja

If I'm picking just like, 'a person', regardless of acting ability or anything else to play her, I'd pick Kayla Harrison. No idea whether she has any acting ability at all, but she's one of the greatest American judo players in history. Her MMA career's kind of stunted because she can't find people big enough to compete regularly with her (she's 5'8" and apparently walks around between camps at like a little under 180).

[draynay]

Y'all must've hated the 1980s movie if you expect the actress to match the comic imagery.

No shortage of people who hated that movie. It was an OK watch when I was a kid, I'm scared to try again now.

[Adamas102]

Oh, I don't think it's a problem of a lack of candidates. I think it's an issue of casting directors and their predilections for a certain body shape.

Eh, there are plenty of male actors who get cast in these types of roles with the expectation that they put in the work to get the body. More so than the Jason Momoas and Dwayne Johnsons who pretty much built their careers on the bodies they already had. And lets be honest, that latter type of actor takes years to get their acting chops up to snuff.

I'm not denying that there are still a lot of issues in Hollywood surrounding body expectations for women, but acting ability and name recognition are also things these studios take into account. Maybe if more high profile female actors tried to undergo the body transformations that their male counterparts go through it would help to expand our expectations for female action star physiques. I doubt Gal Gadot would be fired from the role of Wonderwoman if she pulled a Hugh Jackman and got progressively more muscular over the course of the DC movies. And I doubt a casting director is going to tell someone like Charlize Theron "sorry, we're gonna go with someone else" if she wanted to bulk up a bit more for any of the action roles she's been doing these past few years.

- - - Updated - - -

If I'm picking just like, 'a person', regardless of acting ability or anything else to play her, I'd pick Kayla Harrison. No idea whether she has any acting ability at all, but she's one of the greatest American judo players in history. Her MMA career's kind of stunted because she can't find people big enough to compete regularly with her (she's 5'8" and apparently walks around between camps at like a little under 180).

Genuinely curious: is it even possible for a typical Hollywood actress to attain a body like that (or even close to that) in pre-production the way male actors do when they get tapped for a superhero role? Or would a woman pretty much have to come into her acting career already with a strong athletic background?

[Polyxo]

Eh, there are plenty of male actors who get cast in these types of roles with the expectation that they put in the work to get the body. More so than the Jason Momoas and Dwayne Johnsons who pretty much built their careers on the bodies they already had. And lets be honest, that latter type of actor takes years to get their acting chops up to snuff.

I'm not denying that there are still a lot of issues in Hollywood surrounding body expectations for women, but acting ability and name recognition are also things these studios take into account. Maybe if more high profile female actors tried to undergo the body transformations that their male counterparts go through it would help to expand our expectations for female action star physiques. I doubt Gal Gadot would be fired from the role of Wonderwoman if she pulled a Hugh Jackman and got progressively more muscular over the course of the DC movies. And I doubt a casting director is going to tell someone like Charlize Theron "sorry, we're gonna go with someone else" if she wanted to bulk up a bit more for any of the action roles she's been doing these past few years.

- - - Updated - - -



Question of curiosity: is it even possible for a typical Hollywood actress to attain a body like that (or even close to that) in pre-production the way male actors do when they get tapped for a superhero role? Or would a woman pretty much have to come into her acting career already with a strong athletic background?

I think it's probably impossible for most actresses these days, though there are some here and there that can do things like that. The problem is that Hollywood seems to select towards like, fashion models, and model adjacent people for leading women in general. You do have outliers, though.

Cynthia Erivo:


It's also not surprising that Hollywood doesn't do it very often. It's changing, but there's still a not insignificant 'backlash' to women with muscles showing up. I've gotten shamed/teased/bullied over it before, whatever you want to call it. There were other gamers whining about Kassandra in AC:Odyssey and what's her name in The Last of Us 2.

[Shadowferal]

Brie Larson has the physique and acting ability.

..that chainmail "armor" is useful as a distraction in a world of barbarian men.

[Nynax]

If her outfits are stupid and nobody gives a shit about her fandom... why make a movie about her in the first place?

Literally the thing some people understand the least about "get woke, go broke." They drive away the fanbase with major alterations from the source material to appease a group of people that aren't really interested in seeing movies in said genre anyway. Then act shocked when there's no audience...and it's happened so many times that it's crazy studios still don't seem to understand it.

[Endus]

Literally the thing some people understand the least about "get woke, go broke." They drive away the fanbase with major alterations from the source material to appease a group of people that aren't really interested in seeing movies in said genre anyway. Then act shocked when there's no audience...and it's happened so many times that it's crazy studios still don't seem to understand it.

The whole "get woke, go broke" thing is basically just an empty conspiracy theory.

At best, shitty content doesn't find an audience. Most of the allegations of "going woke" when applied to content that is considered "good" according to critic reviews, however, there is no "going broke" in the first place.

The whole stupid hashtag revolves around trying to pretend that bad movies failed because of social justice messaging, rather than just by virtue of being bad movies. And they have to stick their fingers in their ears to avoid having to explain why plenty of "woke" films break the bank on a regular basis, completely refuting the central claim.

[Shadowferal]

Literally the thing some people understand the least about "get woke, go broke." They drive away the fanbase with major alterations from the source material to appease a group of people that aren't really interested in seeing movies in said genre anyway. Then act shocked when there's no audience...and it's happened so many times that it's crazy studios still don't seem to understand it.

They don't just act shocked, they blame them for being sexist or some shit, completely ignoring the reasons for the character's popularity to begin with. It wouldn't be so bad if the reasons they were interested weren't purely for the sake of controversy.

[Sialina]

The whole "get woke, go broke" thing is basically just an empty conspiracy theory.

At best, shitty content doesn't find an audience. Most of the allegations of "going woke" when applied to content that is considered "good" according to critic reviews, however, there is no "going broke" in the first place.

The whole stupid hashtag revolves around trying to pretend that bad movies failed because of social justice messaging, rather than just by virtue of being bad movies. And they have to stick their fingers in their ears to avoid having to explain why plenty of "woke" films break the bank on a regular basis, completely refuting the central claim.

You know what I dislike the most about the current social justice movement as a woman, and a PoC? Men like you thinking we can't stand up for what we want without your help, it shows racism and sexism if anything.

You also seem to fail to realize that quite a few of us strange womenfolk enjoy a "rapey" character like you call James Bond, we call it charming instead though, remember, we hold all the power unless force is applied, we make the choices, as women we are the ones getting hit on, but we also make every single choice, if you look average as a woman you will be turning down several guys per night if you go out to a bar or register online for dating. If you look good, you will be turning down so many 100s of men that James pales in comparison.

And I'll echo what the previous poster said about the casting earlier to be more on topic "They drive away the fanbase with major alterations from the source material to appease a group of people that aren't really interested in seeing movies in said genre anyway. Then act shocked when there's no audience...and it's happened so many times that it's crazy studios still don't seem to understand it." I'm not a Red Sonja fan, but I agree with the alternative casting choices in this threat, they would suit the role of "warrior woman" a lot better.

[Egomaniac]

..that chainmail "armor" is useful as a distraction in a world of barbarian men.

That's pretty much the worst argument I've seen to defend the chainmal bikini.

[Endus]

You know what I dislike the most about the current social justice movement as a woman, and a PoC? Men like you thinking we can't stand up for what we want without your help, it shows racism and sexism if anything.

I wasn't speaking for women at any point, there. I spoke to basic concepts of authorship in an earlier post, and to empty allegations about "going woke" in what you quoted.

By all means, speak your own mind. How am I silencing you?

And I'll echo what the previous poster said about the casting earlier to be more on topic "They drive away the fanbase with major alterations from the source material to appease a group of people that aren't really interested in seeing movies in said genre anyway. Then act shocked when there's no audience...and it's happened so many times that it's crazy studios still don't seem to understand it." I'm not a Red Sonja fan, but I agree with the alternative casting choices in this threat, they would suit the role of "warrior woman" a lot better.

"They altered the source material too much" is a wildly different allegation than "get woke, go broke". I'll repeat; bad movies do poorly. Good movies generally do just fine, even if they do alter the source material a fair bit. Hell, I could point to examples like John Carter where they didn't alter that source material enough, leading to it feeling super cliche and out of step, given that the Carter stories were written a century ago.

You also seem to have missed that I suggested that they lean right into the pulpy nonsense of the source material hard, with this film.

[Sialina]

That's pretty much the worst argument I've seen to defend the chainmal bikini.

Clearly you don't know about General Butt Naked, one of the most evil men alive today, a leader of Roosevelt Johnssons forces during the first Liberian civil war and a believer in fighting "butt naked" as he believed it would protect him from bullets. Even while fighting hand to hand with a machete. He killed over 20 000 people allegedly.

You can read about him in Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Butt_Naked A fair warning though, it's horrible content and not for the feint of heart.

[Ivanstone]

To be frank, Gwendoline Christie would have made a much better choice for casting for Red Sonja because she fits the description of what Red Sonja is minus the hair color (which as pointed out can easily be changed with dye) and she's proven her acting abilities from her stint on Game of Thrones as Brienne of Tarth.

Have you seen what she looks like without the armour? She worked as Brienne because they never had to show her physique but she really doesn’t look like a bad ass Warrior woman. I suspect they won’t go the bikini route but expect something along the lines of Gal Godots Wonder Woman costume. Christie wouldn’t be able to pull that off.

- - - Updated - - -

They managed to let Wonder woman keep her costume.

They really didn’t. Wonder Woman fought crime in a bathing suit for decades. The gladiator look you saw in the movies is a relatively recent invention.

[Endus]

Have you seen what she looks like without the armour? She worked as Brienne because they never had to show her physique but she really doesn’t look like a bad ass Warrior woman. I suspect they won’t go the bikini route but expect something along the lines of Gal Godots Wonder Woman costume. Christie wouldn’t be able to pull that off.

Yeah, Christie's basically just tall. Hell, too tall if we're getting picky about the canon; the Marvel fandom page I linked earlier sets Red Sonja's height at 5'11". That makes Christie "too tall" by about as much as Hannah John-Kamen would be "too short", at 5'6".

[Egomaniac]

Clearly you don't know about General Butt Naked, one of the most evil men alive today, a leader of Roosevelt Johnssons forces during the first Liberian civil war and a believer in fighting "butt naked" as he believed it would protect him from bullets. Even while fighting hand to hand with a machete. He killed over 20 000 people allegedly.

You can read about him in Wikipedia here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Butt_Naked A fair warning though, it's horrible content and not for the feint of heart.

We're kinda dealing with different ideas here.

You're talking about a man that believed he had magic powers that made him invisible...and you know...guns and bullets instead of swords.

What do you think would make a better defense though...A bullet proof vest...or running around completely naked?

And, honestly, if "distraction" were the purpose...then the chain mail bikini is still ridiculous...she should just run around completely "butt naked"

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, Christie's basically just tall. Hell, too tall if we're getting picky about the canon; the Marvel fandom page I linked earlier sets Red Sonja's height at 5'11". That makes Christie "too tall" by about as much as Hannah John-Kamen would be "too short", at 5'6".

And again, things like "too tall" or "too short" only seem to matter when it's women playing these roles. Hugh Jackman is 6'3. Wolverine is 5'3. But rarely do you hear any complaints about how "Hugh Jackman totally doesn't suit the role of Wolverine"

[Ivanstone]

Marvel owns the licenses to Howard's work.

Technically, Paradox Entertainment owns the Trademarks to Howard’s work. Apparently the copyrights for the stories are in the public domain now. I think Marvel has the TM License for Conan and maybe a few other things. Dynamite has it for Sonja.

Last year there was some controversy from Ablaze comics who wanted to translate the French Conan comics in English. The Cimmerian comics are literally adaptations of the original short stories. They print the original story in the comic and Conan is referred to by name inside. They’re just not allowed to put Conan as the title of the comic in North America. The original French editions are allowed to use Conan since the trademark doesn’t apply in Europe.

No idea if his applies to Sonja as well.

[Egomaniac]

They print the original story in the comic and Conan is referred to by name inside. They’re just not allowed to put Conan as the title of the comic in North America.

Pretty much the same deal with "Shazam"...

[Endus]

And again, things like "too tall" or "too short" only seem to matter when it's women playing these roles. Hugh Jackman is 6'3. Wolverine is 5'3. But rarely do you hear any complaints about how "Hugh Jackman totally doesn't suit the role of Wolverine"

I mean, I remember when he was first cast, and the Internet was just constant "the rom-com song-and-dance guy? Who's 6'3"? WORST CASTING EVAR!" He had basically no action roles prior.

[Ivanstone]

And again, things like "too tall" or "too short" only seem to matter when it's women playing these roles. Hugh Jackman is 6'3. Wolverine is 5'3. But rarely do you hear any complaints about how "Hugh Jackman totally doesn't suit the role of Wolverine"

They also had to do a lot of work to make him appear much shorter. He wasn’t playing a 6’3” Wolverine.

Gwendolyn Christie was desirable as Brienne because she could handle the acting required without any of the inconvenience of making her appear taller than she was.

Sonja doesn’t really need to be tall. It’s not an essential element of the character. Hannah John-Kamen we already know can do the lady badass bit.