Why is end game tailored so much against the casual player?

[Crimson Spears]

And what exactly does that prove? No one has made the claim that it is impossible to kill it with those things. How did the those near the top of the hall of fame clear the raid if full conduit/soulbinds were required? Your argument is an absurd one to begin with. It isn't my side that comes up empty unless you again are claiming to have looked over every single raid kill.

The encounters are not designed around min/max play style which defeats the argument you are trying to make. Weird right?

It kinda proves you have no point and are making a pointless counter argument. its like saying you dont need axe to cut down a tree you could just shatter your hands punching it down...

Your arguing on bad faith and its tiresome but you keep doing it to reset the argument.

[rhorle]

It kinda proves you have no point and are making a pointless counter argument. its like saying you dont need axe to cut down a tree you could just shatter your hands punching it down... Your arguing on bad faith and its tiresome but you keep doing it to reset the argument.

But you don't need full conduit/soulbinds or even legendary items as a returning player to start clearing content. You are trying to say that the axe is no good to cut the tree down because a chainsaw is the best you can get. If you grow tired of arguing in bad faith then perhaps providing actual points to counter other then "Because I say so".

[Couchpotato2013]

All you mention is true, but you realize that the people that are most pissed about all the things you mentioned is actually the crowd you guys blame so much? you feel conduit energy is annoying? its 1000x more annoying for a high end player, you felt corruption vendor was too late? high end players hated it from the start way more than you, and the reason of this is that high end players actually need to minmax, so all these things you mentioned play against that minmax, meanwhile you minmaxing has no actual relevance.

- - - Updated - - -



I could only laugh at this take considering every content creator that blizz actually listens, complains about the decisions made on a 24/7 basis, but its no surprise coming from u xd

It’s like an arms race though. I dislike how blizzard feels this need to prevent them from finishing thing like locusts over a field. And then the situation ends up turning into a prisoner’s dilemma. You have the jailor (blizz in this situation), using the stick on the population of players wanting to play the game as best they can with the time they have. But they say they keep on beating us so long as the those upper tier players keep doing what they are doing.

Just annoyed and tired. I wanted to jump on to a destro lock or firemage in 8.3 but the hoops just killed my drive. And in a twisted way I still find myself from time to time doing bfa emissaries for echoes to gradually get that full rank 3 for all roles on alts (some essences are good for legacy, like sphere of suppression and ripple in space, or have no target cap like BotE).

[Crimson Spears]

But you don't need full conduit/soulbinds or even legendary items as a returning player to start clearing content. You are trying to say that the axe is no good to cut the tree down because a chainsaw is the best you can get. If you grow tired of arguing in bad faith then perhaps providing actual points to counter other then "Because I say so".

Can you show me people doing this then?

Your trying desperately to hand wave something away when the trend crushes ya.

[kukkamies]

It's LITERALLY right in front of you as in YouTube promotions etc. I don't need to source that as it's common knowledge that events bring advertisers. Try again.

Just to sate your lunacy about this: 2019 Blizzcon matches total prize pool was 330,000 dollars. Blizzard is not just going to be giving that money away without actually making it back at LEAST twofold. So right there we're looking at somewhere around 500k revenue from 1 event. If you REALLY somehow think they're taking a loss on these events rather than a massive gain(the 330k was included just to give a rough idea of what they gave away while making money) then no matter what evidence is presented you'll claim it's fabricated.

I don't think it's revenue from that 1 event. Not sure if even Blizzcon is profitable. At least not this year with the free online version. It's advertisement and longer term brand loyalty. It doesn't pay off instantly.

[rhorle]

Can you show me people doing this then?Your trying desperately to hand wave something away when the trend crushes ya.

If it is only a trend that means some do not. I don't need to show you something yourself say is possible right? You also seem to be confused again on the argument being made. It was never about it not being a popular thing to do or a community imposed requirement. Or simply one that people who do that content got naturally over the months of attempting the content.

It was about catch up mechanics and X being required. It isn't required to be the max potential of your character in order to clear the content. Gear is the important thing as you'll have at least one conduit and soul bind unlocked by doing a little bit of the covenant. That is all you need to clear the content. You've yet to provide any sort of rebuttal to that that other then "Because I said so". So the only one desperately trying to hand wave here is you and you are trying to hand wave with something that doesn't even counter act my point.

[Crimson Spears]

If it is only a trend that means some do not. I don't need to show you something yourself say is possible right? You also seem to be confused again on the argument being made. It was never about it not being a popular thing to do or a community imposed requirement. Or simply one that people who do that content got naturally over the months of attempting the content.

It was about catch up mechanics and X being required. It isn't required to be the max potential of your character in order to clear the content. Gear is the important thing as you'll have at least one conduit and soul bind unlocked by doing a little bit of the covenant. That is all you need to clear the content. You've yet to provide any sort of rebuttal to that that other then "Because I said so". So the only one desperately trying to hand wave here is you and you are trying to hand wave with something that doesn't even counter act my point.

So its never been done but much like breaking all your fingers punching down a tree it could be done.

What a useful contribution to the conversation...

[rhorle]

So its never been done but much like breaking all your fingers punching down a tree it could be done. What a useful contribution to the conversation...

Do you have proof it has never been done? That is a bold claim to make so surely you can prove it right? The encounters are not designed around the max potential of each player. For catching up gear has always been the strongest element because Blizzard has had built in catch up mechanics for AK, AP, and Renown. Memories can be bought. Conduits come from callings. You have yet to refute any of that but instead act absurd and say you've proven everything.

You don't need a chainsaw to cut a tree down when the axe will do just fine.

[Crimson Spears]

Do you have proof it has never been done? That is a bold claim to make so surely you can prove it right? The encounters are not designed around the max potential of each player. For catching up gear has always been the strongest element because Blizzard has had built in catch up mechanics for AK, AP, and Renown. Memories can be bought. Conduits come from callings. You have yet to refute any of that but instead act absurd and say you've proven everything.

You don't need a chainsaw to cut a tree down when the axe will do just fine.

Your asking me to prove a negative. I can't prove that the very center of the earth isn't made of candy. I can't prove your bizarre claims for you either.

[rhorle]

Your asking me to prove a negative. I can't prove that the very center of the earth isn't made of candy. I can't prove your bizarre claims for you either.

And yet you are so certain I am wrong despite not being able to prove what you say is true. You like to blow hot air then deflect when it comes time to back it up.

[Crimson Spears]

And yet you are so certain I am wrong despite not being able to prove what you say is true. You like to blow hot air then deflect when it comes time to back it up.

I'm saying you can't prove anything your saying and its a foolish stance to take. Sadly your protected in this community since calling down people making pointless arguments isn't allowed so we are stuck in a loop of you trying desperately to deflect.

[rhorle]

I'm saying you can't prove anything your saying and its a foolish stance to take. Sadly your protected in this community since calling down people making pointless arguments isn't allowed so we are stuck in a loop of you trying desperately to deflect.

You can't disprove what I am saying either. So how can you say I am wrong? I am not protected in this community in the slightest and people disagree all the time. If you can't have a civil discussion with out name calling or breaking forum rules then that is a you problem. The only loop here is you trying to discuss me rather then the topic. Weird huh?

[tomten]

Since they refuse to have any form of depth or skill to rotations and refuse to have a skill ceiling the only real way to differentiate yourself is time and how much you can throw at the game.
I would rather they made the game more casual while bringing back depth and skill to rotations but then all the casual scrubs will complain they're doing 50% less damage in the same gear... There's no way to please both sides.

[Popokolara]

You can't disprove what I am saying either. So how can you say I am wrong? I am not protected in this community in the slightest and people disagree all the time. If you can't have a civil discussion with out name calling or breaking forum rules then that is a you problem. The only loop here is you trying to discuss me rather then the topic. Weird huh?

i must admit i did not read all of the back and forth, just this page and the previous one. What is it that you two are arguing about exactly? The idea about the systems that give player power being optional is weird because talents are optional, gear is optional as well, its just a matter of having an absolute bare minimum with which you can do content, and then player power that makes it easier. The less skilled someone the more the added power helps him make the checks. So sure all these are optional but what is the point of treating them like that when the very essence of the game is increasing player power compared to the challenges ahead?

[rhorle]

i must admit i did not read all of the back and forth, just this page and the previous one. What is it that you two are arguing about exactly?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53164613

That post is what set them off. Someone stated that they need to go back to designing the game so gear is the only thing that needs to be caught up on. I stated they already design it that way because of the built in catch up mechanics they have had with the "borrowed power" systems that always brought you up to the next patch baseline quickly.

Shadowlands is easier to catch up then the last two expansions because there is no real system that needs constant attention. Renown is super easy to gain. Conduits come from callings. And you can buy memories (though you need to invest Anima and it is class wide random). Soul ash is two weeks for one legendary. So even a brand new player won't take long to "catch up" and only needs to focus on gear.

[Krimzin]

So give me a path to work toward the gear that doesn't require submitting to harsh community standards. Otherwise if I can't have a place in the game, why should I pay sub money to help support it?

Then don't. Sounds like you want what everyone else is willing to work for, without you having to do anything. This entitled mentality is just another reason everything is going to shit. People dont wanna put in the effort but yet think they deserve it all. No one owes you ANYTHING. Work for it.. dont.. IDGAF but dont come whining when you arent willing to put in the work because honestly, I dont wanna here it... Something maybe your folks should have said to you.

[Depakote]

Then don't. Sounds like you want what everyone else is willing to work for, without you having to do anything. This entitled mentality is just another reason everything is going to shit. People dont wanna put in the effort but yet think they deserve it all. No one owes you ANYTHING. Work for it.. dont.. IDGAF but dont come whining when you arent willing to put in the work because honestly, I dont wanna here it... Something maybe your folks should have said to you.

Seems like you read the person's comment and decided to give a reply to it that had nothing at all to do with what they said.

[Revamp Man]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53164613

That post is what set them off. Someone stated that they need to go back to designing the game so gear is the only thing that needs to be caught up on. I stated they already design it that way because of the built in catch up mechanics they have had with the "borrowed power" systems that always brought you up to the next patch baseline quickly.

Shadowlands is easier to catch up then the last two expansions because there is no real system that needs constant attention. Renown is super easy to gain. Conduits come from callings. And you can buy memories (though you need to invest Anima and it is class wide random). Soul ash is two weeks for one legendary. So even a brand new player won't take long to "catch up" and only needs to focus on gear.

guild has a rogue that got raid ready in a day after cap

[Tadkins]

Seems like you read the person's comment and decided to give a reply to it that had nothing at all to do with what they said.

Lot of people here like to dodge the points I'm making without actually addressing them. I've ceased to expect reading comprehension from much of this forum.

[Necromantic]

Literally who? Bellular does nothing but shit on Blizzard 24/7 these days and his entire channel has basically become a fucking waiting room for Asmongold reaction VODs.

This is 2021, people still care about streamers?