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  1. #81
    I’m not banned. This is my only account. If I was banned I cba to get another account going.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    I'm enjoying this thread the only one not banned is his main
    See that is the problem though, as far as I know, we don't know his main account. He has made enough accounts to have his main account permabanned and it could have been a long time ago.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    See that is the problem though, as far as I know, we don't know his main account. He has made enough accounts to have his main account permabanned and it could have been a long time ago.
    It's likely Advanta

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It's likely Advanta
    Judging by the talking points, it's actually Piers Morgan. Which would make sense really, he's got a lot of time on his hands these days.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Judging by the talking points, it's actually Piers Morgan. Which would make sense really, he's got a lot of time on his hands these days.
    Well until Andrew Niell far right news group starts up properly.

  6. #86
    Can't believe people still answer dribbles and his ban evasion army.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    So you ok with reports of Antisemitism being swept under the carpet?
    Corbyn had been blasted with all sorts of hit-pieces and did not receive the proper support from the rest of his Party. His lack of action was a failure in leadership he had to go because of it but there is a strong case he was set up to fail and the entire Labour Party are responsible for the mess they landed in.

  8. #88
    While Boris likes hiding in fridges. Our First Minister is standing up to racists and bigots that come harass her in the street.


  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by caractacus View Post
    It looks to me like Labour have a bit of an impossible task on their hands at the moment. A lot of people speculating that Kier Starmer is the problem or different members within but I think it's a lot deeper than that. Social media has created too much division both culturally and economically but it's mostly cultural. A lot of the older Labour voters are culturally conservative, ie Brexit and such things, and the new younger supporters are progressive. There is so much division between these two groups that I really can't see them coming together and alienating either side looks like political suicide.

    To a lesser extent, economically a lot of the upper echelons of Labour are living the the capital(Westminster) bubble and out of touch with the struggling working class. This doesn't appear to be as much as a barrier as Boris seems to be able to cross this divide quite effectively, for all his faults.

    Overall it's pretty depressing that the government doesn't appear to have any real opposition both now and for the foreseeable future.
    That's my take, plus the control of the media and the brainwashing of the general public for decades. People should start looking at things going back years if they want to understand what is going on, it's not an overnight transformation and it won't be an overnight change out of it, either.

  10. #90
    Look at how blatant the current Westminster government and its leaders are. Throwing billions of public money to their friends, often for services and equipment that was either useless or non existent. A PM playing fast and loose with finance rules to do up his flat. A PM who would let the bodies pile high. A PM who promotes cronies to top positions, such as track and trace, which was a total waste of money, but fights to give free school meals to needy children during lockdown/holiday periods. A PM who as a columnist didn't hide his contempt for large swathes of the British public. Who made openly racist comments regarding black people, who used slurs against Muslims. And none of it matters. None of it sticks. People see this and think "this is the guy for me", or write it off as "all politicians lie". Not like this they don't. Sure, the vaccination program is going well, the one thing handled well during the pandemic. But to ascribe this to his leadership is simply wrong- the Oxford/AZ vaccine wasn't developed by the government, we have the NHS and local public health to thank for the rollout, services constantly undermined by the government.

    I genuinely don't get what Starmer could have done. In the by election, it was clear with no Brexit party to split the Tory vote they would take the seat. The PM was pro Brexit, so it doesn't matter what he does. I honestly don't know where the line is. And I am not one of those "all Tories are bastards" people- whilst I may be centre left there are certainly Tories who I can listen to, and I don't think being right wing is the same as evil. When you consider that many of the party grandees were kicked out of the party by this ugly monstrosity that currently occupies number 10, I feel that this doesn't represent conservatism, this represents something much uglier.

    I can't help but feel that one factor (and I stress just one) is a sense by some in the working class that the Labour party has contempt for them, in particular they have contempt for patriotism and feel ashamed to be British, especially English. Whether this is real or imagined, has a kernel of truth or a phantom cooked up by the Daily Heil, I am not sure, maybe it is a mixture. I think back to Emily Thornberry and her tweet about the St George's cross. I think back to Orwell and his comments on the English left, how they would celebrate any place but this, any time but their own, would feel less shame stealing from the poor box than they would singing the national anthem. A general silence regarding the tearing down of statues, and insinuation from the left that to take issue with this means you are scum. I read The Guardian, the most prominent left leaning newspaper in the UK, and for me it is clear that those types of leftists have issue with symbols and icons of Britain, and that patriotism is just a synonym for nationalism, empire and racism, you should be ashamed of your country. And I can't always tell if it is a genuine attempt to be better (e.g. acknowledging the shady past and looking to chance things for the better), or a feeling that the entire thing is fucked and needs ripped down.

    Is this what the political left is though? Is this what the Labour party is? I don't think it is. There will no doubt be members who feel this way, and some MPs. However I feel that the Tories and the right leaning press have them against the rope on the issue of national identity and patriotism. Some voices on the left call for Starmer not to give in and pander to patriotism. Some call for him to reclaim it from the right, that there is nothing inherently evil about patriotism, that it can be a useful tool for trying to make the country better, for all in the country, and doesn't have to be built on hatred of other nations. Whatever Starmer believes, whatever the truth of the matter actually is, there is a perception that has built up that the left, and by extension Labour, has an issue with being British, specifically English. Many working class English look north to the SNP and say "they aren't ashamed of who they are, why should we be?". And the PM, for all his blatant faults, his manifest unfitness for office, the contempt he has for so much of the country, he doesn't hate them for being British, he won't try to make them feel shamed about where they were born, he might have no issue tossing them under a bus because of how (e.g. the socio economic status, local geography, religion, and just the fact that they aren't him) they were born, but he won't do it for that reason, and whether people agree with it or not, it is becoming clearer that this one matters do a significant number of people. Whether Labour does in fact have contempt for the idea of English national identity is irrelevant, there is a perception that there is.

    I don't know how Labour deal with it. I think it might be best for them to break apart into a left party and a centrist/centre left party. If The Guardian is anything to go by, the left wing of the party would have a real issue with any notion of a positive patriotism. Whether people like it or not, this does seem to be an issue that can simply be ignored, it seems to matter to too many people. Again, I think this is just one factor, how important in comparison to other factors, I couldn't say. I do think it is a serious problem though for the Labour party.

    Also in Scotland, whilst the SNP will win, how big the majority will be in unsure, it isn't necessarily a resounding vote of confidence for another indy ref. I know last night, not sure how much this is changed, but the pro union party vote was bigger than the pro indy vote. The pro indy vote isn't split though like the pro union. So even if another referendum happens, the number of MSPs for the SNP does not necessarily indicate a majority support for yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    Also in Scotland, whilst the SNP will win, how big the majority will be in unsure, it isn't necessarily a resounding vote of confidence for another indy ref. I know last night, not sure how much this is changed, but the pro union party vote was bigger than the pro indy vote. The pro indy vote isn't split though like the pro union. So even if another referendum happens, the number of MSPs for the SNP does not necessarily indicate a majority support for yes.
    Some info for you.
    Source: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...899292673.html


  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    I never suggested there was no mandate with a majority, I simply stated that victory isn't assured by this alone. I should have clarified more in my first sentence, I didn't mean a vote of confidence for having the vote, I meant the outcome of a vote. Last time there was a parliamentary majority for the SNP, the public didn't back independence. And just for the record, I will be furious if Westminster try to block a second referendum. As much as I don't want one any time soon, a clear SNP majority is a clear mandate for one. I want the right to vote no a second time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    That's my take, plus the control of the media and the brainwashing of the general public for decades. People should start looking at things going back years if they want to understand what is going on, it's not an overnight transformation and it won't be an overnight change out of it, either.
    Yea I tend to just use "social media" now as a generic term for all the ways we get out information and much of the news now is written for social media by people of live on there. But your right it has been going on for a long time now even before the internet, I think it started in America in the eighties when TV companies realised could use their news platforms to outrage people and their ratings would sky rocket. Then it spread everywhere in the developed world and the internet, aided by things like facebook and Twitter, has taken it to the next level.

    In the UK we have been kind of lucky to have the BBC but even that is in a lot of trouble now, It's becoming increasingly infected by the divisive nature of social media and the left think it's biased to the right and the right think it's biased to the left.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    I never suggested there was no mandate with a majority, I simply stated that victory isn't assured by this alone. I should have clarified more in my first sentence, I didn't mean a vote of confidence for having the vote, I meant the outcome of a vote. Last time there was a parliamentary majority for the SNP, the public didn't back independence. And just for the record, I will be furious if Westminster try to block a second referendum. As much as I don't want one any time soon, a clear SNP majority is a clear mandate for one. I want the right to vote no a second time.
    Aaah I see what you are saying, yes, Westminster will deffo try and block, Boris already said he would. But I think its clear to see just how different Scotland and England are politically, the union no longer works, Scotland's held up as a trophy, not an equal partner, and things have shifted considerably since last referendum, so it's only right we have the chance to voice what we want again. Regardless of the outcome, we deserve another say.

    I think you would be surprised at just how many folks that voted Labour are pro independence, I have seen quite a few folks saying it. Not everyone that voted SNP wants the union to end, but not everyone voting Elsewhere, necessarily wants to stay in the union either.

    I voted Yes to independence last time, and nothings changed my mind since then, will be Yes again.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Bojo523 View Post
    --
    We can be just as strong ruling our own countries, England doesn't see Scotland as equal, they treat us like they own us, thats not a union of equals.

    The landscape politically between us all is too different for it to work, we have a leader willing to stand up to racism and bigotry, while Boris is a racist bigot.. the union is broken. It doesn't work, we can break up the union and still be friends and neighbours, it doesn't have to get messy. Just let it go.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2021-05-08 at 12:36 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    We can be just as strong ruling our own countries, England doesn't see Scotland as equal, they treat us like they own us, thats not a union of equals.

    The landscape politically between us all is too different for it to work, we have a leader willing to stand up to racism and bigotry, while Boris is a racist bigot.. the union is broken. It doesn't work, we can break up the union and still be friends and neighbours, it doesn't have to get messy. Just let it go.
    Sorry, just quoting this post because the post you quoted is rightly deleted. But if anyone wants to try uniting the Republic of Ireland into the United Kingdom...good luck to them. I'm not even Irish, but let me tell you that you're more likely to have a human-pig hybrid tomorrow than have the Republic of Ireland willingly join the United Kingdom. And I'm with the Republic of Ireland. They're not British and don't want to be. Proud of that.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Sorry, just quoting this post because the post you quoted is rightly deleted. But if anyone wants to try uniting the Republic of Ireland into the United Kingdom...good luck to them. I'm not even Irish, but let me tell you that you're more likely to have a human-pig hybrid tomorrow than have the Republic of Ireland willingly join the United Kingdom. And I'm with the Republic of Ireland. They're not British and don't want to be. Proud of that.
    No worries.

    And aye, I agree here, though I do not know enough about the politics of ROI to add anything to this. But as a Scot, I have never felt British, nor want to be either, and that's not because I hate the English, as much as unionists tend to think and say those of us that want independence, or vote for the SNP do.
    Last edited by The Glitch; 2021-05-08 at 04:33 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    you're more likely to have a human-pig hybrid tomorrow
    Honestly I thought we had done that; don't we use them for growing kidneys?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    No worries.

    And aye, I agree here, though I do not know enough about the politics of ROI to add anything to this. But as a Scot, I have never felt British, nor want to be either, and that's not because I hate the English, as much as unionists tend to think and say those of us that want independence, or vote for the SNP do.
    Agreed. I'm not ethnically English, so I call myself 'British'. But I get it. There are cultural things that are just completely different for someone like myself to an English person. And that's okay. The diversity makes everything better, so I don't begrudge it. But if I were say Scottish, I'd be well annoyed if someone told me to be British. It's like, 'I'm Scottish and I'm happy that way'. That's not a nationalist sentiment. That's identity.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Agreed. I'm not ethnically English, so I call myself 'British'. But I get it. There are cultural things that are just completely different for someone like myself to an English person. And that's okay. The diversity makes everything better, so I don't begrudge it. But if I were say Scottish, I'd be well annoyed if someone told me to be British. It's like, 'I'm Scottish and I'm happy that way'. That's not a nationalist sentiment. That's identity.
    I'd call it patriotism.

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