Who do you think really "won" the Fourth War? The status of Ashenvale and Lordaeron?

[Eslizon92]

How about you heed your own words and read it yourself. The book says nothing about Orgrim considering it impossible. What it actually said was that he assumed the humans would likely have expected him to go through it and that he instead opted to do the unexpected. Alas, without resorting to fabrication you wouldn't be able to even construct that weak-ass non-argument you barely managed to muster.

Read chronicles again, little horde Fanboy.
its explains that orgrimm decides to create a fleet because the bridge was a bottleneck.
Not to say that the bridge could be torn down

And anyway, at the end of second war, horde could not destroy a single capital. I doubt that even by conquering lordaeron, they could defeat the other kingdoms, having lost so much.

Accept it. Horde only had one chance to conquer lordaeron, thanks to Neltharion's manipulations.

Without Neltharion's help the horde would have been extinguished before the second war began.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The Alliance had tactical victory with the death of Saurfang and departure of Sylvanas + Stromgarde and Darkshore being added.

[Eslizon92]

The Alliance had tactical victory with the death of Saurfang and departure of Sylvanas + Stromgarde and Darkshore being added.

And the latest addition to the alliance is far superior to that of the horde. Mechagnomes vs Vulperas.

[Lolites]

And the latest addition to the alliance is far superior to that of the horde. Mechagnomes vs Vulperas.

eh... trash cans vs. racoons, seems both are pretty useless...
sure mechagnomes are technologicaly advanced but so are "regular" gnomes so its not like alliance gained something new...

[Rendark]

But...we...have...Anduin...U can take him if u want

I feel bad for night elf fans. They have been getting the shaft since the beginning.

[huth]

eh... trash cans vs. racoons, seems both are pretty useless...
sure mechagnomes are technologicaly advanced but so are "regular" gnomes so its not like alliance gained something new...

Vulpera are very clearly fennecs. But Mechagnomes bring even more advanced tech than regular gnomes while the vulpera bring half a body that needs to be fed each and not much of value.

[Eslizon92]

eh... trash cans vs. racoons, seems both are pretty useless...
sure mechagnomes are technologicaly advanced but so are "regular" gnomes so its not like alliance gained something new...

Mechagnomes got the tech to destroy the whole Azeroth's life. xD
They are much more advanced than regular gnomes, and much more numerous.

[Verdugo]

But Mechagnomes bring even more advanced tech than regular gnomes

Of course, adult diapers, how could we forget.

[Feanoro]

The only winner in BfA was Blizzard, in that they tricked people into buying and playing it.

The status of the two zones is stasis until the next time Blizz remembers them. I fully expect the Horde's third rampage through Ashenvale will have it resembling Hellfire Peninsula.

[SirFinlot]

Murlocs. Mulocs won.

[Imperator4321]

Mechagnomes got the tech to destroy the whole Azeroth's life. xD

It's also a weapon that would kill off all of their allies, wildlife, basically anything but mechagnomes and titanforged, it's a weapons technology that has no real functional purpose as a weapon of war aside from the threat of mutually assured destruction.

Even if the Mechoriginator wasn't flawed and could work as intended (not incinerating anything that wasn't mechanical in nature) it would still kill all Elves and Draenei and turn all Gnomes back into mechagnomes, Dwarves back to Earthern and Humans back to Iron Vrykul, not exactly an ideal result either, even though it would kill every horde race since they aren't descended from the Titanforged.

[StationaryHawk]

How about you heed your own words and read it yourself. The book says nothing about Orgrim considering it impossible. What it actually said was that he assumed the humans would likely have expected him to go through it and that he instead opted to do the unexpected. Alas, without resorting to fabrication you wouldn't be able to even construct that weak-ass non-argument you barely managed to muster.

Read chronicles again, little horde Fanboy.
its explains that orgrimm decides to create a fleet because the bridge was a bottleneck.
Not to say that the bridge could be torn down

"Then the orcs would be forced to cross the narrow Thandol Span bridge that led into the northern lands—A site the humans could easily defend.

The humans would likely expect the Horde to cross north by land, but Doomhammer would not do the expected. He would build a fleet of ships and launch a surprise attack in the heart of humanity's territories."

You're both correct. Doomhammer acknowledges that Thandol Span is a bottleneck that would be easy to defend, though he never claims it is impassible. He also believes that the humans will expect the Horde to approach by land regardless, which would make a sea crossing particularly effective.

[Mehrunes]

The status of the two zones is stasis until the next time Blizz remembers them. I fully expect the Horde's third rampage through Ashenvale will have it resembling Hellfire Peninsula.

Maybe after the Horde is done with it. Before that happens Ashenvale will look exactly like we left it, because when Blizzard returns to a zone they left in the stasis you mentioned they can't do something as basic as asking themselves "What would have logically happened in this zone in the X years that passed since we've been here last?" question.

"Then the orcs would be forced to cross the narrow Thandol Span bridge that led into the northern lands—A site the humans could easily defend.

The humans would likely expect the Horde to cross north by land, but Doomhammer would not do the expected. He would build a fleet of ships and launch a surprise attack in the heart of humanity's territories."

You're both correct. Doomhammer acknowledges that Thandol Span is a bottleneck that would be easy to defend, though he never claims it is impassible. He also believes that the humans will expect the Horde to approach by land regardless, which would make a sea crossing particularly effective.

We're "both" correct only in as much as the other poster blatantly moved their goalposts. Which they were forced to do because their initial claim was very much not correct and they were called out on that. And instead of simply admitting that they decided to wriggle their way out of it with fallacious BS.

[Tyrathius]

Alliance "won" in the sense that they were in the right and eventually convinced the Horde to recognize this and give up fighting.

Really though, neither side actually won, because neither side really gained anything. The Fourth War was just one long string of things being destroyed followed by resets to the status quo. I guess Alliance got Stromgarde at least, but even that wasn't really taken from the Horde since they never had it to begin with.

[StationaryHawk]

We're "both" correct only in as much as the other poster blatantly moved their goalposts. Which they were forced to do because their initial claim was very much not correct and they were called out on that. And instead of simply admitting that they decided to wriggle their way out of it with fallacious BS.

Sure, but there is more to what is actually said than just subverting the humans' expectations. Deliberately ignoring the full story of Doomhammer's decision to invade Lordaeron by sea isn't a great look either.

[Darknessvamp]

If we talk numbers then the Horde won no question. The amount of troops the Alliance just sacrificed for no gains or frankly stupid reasons is astounding e.g. sending your whole navy after one ship twice with no means of ensuring they'd catch up only to result in them being completely wiped out twice with very few survivors, Darkshore both in terms of defence with the troops returning and the 'reclamation', the assault on Lordaeron with zero anti-plague measures despite it being known as the literal plague capital of Azeroth, Arathi Highlands (whee we captured a fort that we have zero means of supplying consistently, is in a terrible place to defend, has to deal with trolls, elementals and bandits and offers zero tactical advantage and is in a worse placement than fucking Gilneas two mountain ranges over which has a massive wall which could be reclaimed and reinforced for a better staging ground... if Lordaeron wasn't already abandoned with plague!), literally wasted an army as a distraction for Dazar'alor so they could do an op that rogues could do easily without one.

But if we talk 'story wise', the Alliance won cause Sylvanas flew away and the Horde said sorry and formed Red Alliance Council and Tyrande tantrumed over Darkshore and the Horde gave it up as Arathi just concluded and the Alliance happened to be the last ones holding the Fort.

[Feanoro]

Maybe after the Horde is done with it. Before that happens Ashenvale will look exactly like we left it, because when Blizzard returns to a zone they left in the stasis you mentioned they can't do something as basic as asking themselves "What would have logically happened in this zone in the X years that passed since we've been here last?" question.

That's what I said?

[VladlTutushkin]

I feel bad for night elf fans. They have been getting the shaft since the beginning.

Because unlike any of horde races (yes, even tauren) night elves exist only to:

1) Get crushed, humiliated and otherwise mutilated by the horde to give the rest of Alliance a moment of "righteous" indignation.

2) Then to be shown as vengeful morons (despite being absolutely reasonable in their demands for justice or retribution) and schooled by current Alliance king, preferably in some form of "life lesson".

3) To get shafted later on when Alliance makes peace with the horde to showcase the "teamup to defeat the big bad".

Basically they are the fridge wife, the mutilated sidekick, beaten up buttler, etc in the story between a "superhero" and "supervillain" who team up now and then.

[Irian]

It's hard to say the Alliance won, considering they didn't actually really achieve any meaningful victory. They didn't manage to kill Sylvanas, Darnassus is w destroyed and the Horde is stronger than it was before the war.

Can't wait for another shitty PvP expansion where the Horde yet again commits heinous war crimes out of nowhere and the Alliance's victory can best be summed up as a moral victory that leaves the Horde in an even better situation to attack later.

[loras]

Because unlike any of horde races (yes, even tauren) night elves exist only to:

1) Get crushed, humiliated and otherwise mutilated by the horde to give the rest of Alliance a moment of "righteous" indignation.

2) Then to be shown as vengeful morons (despite being absolutely reasonable in their demands for justice or retribution) and schooled by current Alliance king, preferably in some form of "life lesson".

3) To get shafted later on when Alliance makes peace with the horde to showcase the "teamup to defeat the big bad".

Basically they are the fridge wife, the mutilated sidekick, beaten up buttler, etc in the story between a "superhero" and "supervillain" who team up now and then.

Now i wanna make a nelf named Alfred.
Paladin preferably, because prot pallies just feel most appropriate in this context.