1. #11381
    Fantastic Four was a great comic because of the writing.
    And the only reason the MCU made Stark a genius in so many fields was because Disney only had his character at the time. Now that they have the full set of geniuses, they'll have to show the differences. The biggest brains in Marvel are Doom and Reed. And we should see that. There should be a collective nerdgasm when von Doom and Richards get all competitive by spouting space/time differential equations before von Doom becomes Dr Doom.

  2. #11382
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Even in the comics Stark was a top 10 intellect. Top 5 depending on the era.
    Not arguing that.
    The brains typically revolved around Pym, Stark, Banner, Doom, and Richards, all notable in different fields in biology, physics, and astronomy, engineering.
    The only time the MCU differentiated was on Pym.

  3. #11383
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Also, Richards is currently #2 in Marvel when it comes to Earth intellects. Moon Girl is the top.
    Yea...some character no one knows about... Out of nowhere... Not surprised.

  4. #11384
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yea...some character no one knows about... Out of nowhere... Not surprised.
    A bit weird to get bent out of shape over the real world concept of "there will always be someone better at the thing than you are" being put on display in a comics universe.

  5. #11385
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Well, like this:

    Don't be sleepin' on Susan Storm :P
    I submit:



    One of my favorite pages in all of comic book-dom. Background: original Marvel Comics Civil War. Thor-clone is trying to electro-fuck all the anti-registration heroes in the current battle. Sue covers them all in a bubble.

    She's also damaged the armor of a Celestial.

    Sue is a powerhouse, herself.
    Last edited by Anastacy; 2021-05-08 at 05:56 PM.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  6. #11386
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Well, like this:

    Don't be sleepin' on Susan Storm :P
    I was more being a bit snarky about Sue's original writing, before the psychic stuff became more prominent and her "main" ability was just invisibility.

    You're right that they fixed that decades back, and I'm expecting something more along those later lines in the MCU film. It's a niche open to being filled, particularly since I don't think we're getting mutants, and thus no Jean Grey, any time soon in the MCU.


  7. #11387
    Sue Richards was a lot more interesting when she wasn't so powerful. But then the shitty writing becomes so obvious when they insist power "creep" is a progression.

  8. #11388
    i dont even really see doom as a villain tbh. more neutral
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  9. #11389
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i dont even really see doom as a villain tbh. more neutral
    He's not "neutral". He's a Lawful Evil Megalomaniac.

  10. #11390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i dont even really see doom as a villain tbh. more neutral
    Doom basically embodies the question; is an absolutely brutal and ruthless dictator, who nevertheless holds the welfare of his people as his mission, a better or worse option than freedom and liberty and the risks inherent within?

    What he's willing to do in pursuit of his goals is absolutely "evil" by any definition. But his goals are . . . complicated. He seeks to subjugate, but not really for personal glorification, but because Doom really does know better, and everyone'll be better off if he gets to run the show.

    That's what makes him a great villain. He's right up there with Magneto and at least the MCU iteration of Zemo; they may be willing to do terrible things, but are their goals actually wrong?


  11. #11391
    Zemo did say that Sokovia had been subsumed by other countries after the Ultron incident, what if one of those land grabs was Latveria.

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  12. #11392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    Zemo did say that Sokovia had been subsumed by other countries after the Ultron incident, what if one of those land grabs was Latveria.
    I've been saying almost since Age of Ultron came out that the ruins of Sokovia make for a pretty perfect baseline for Latveria's emergence, either by Latveria taking it over, or Sokovia coming under new rule and changing its name.

    Not only is there an obvious power gap there, but it fits the Eastern-European note it needs to, and you've got plenty remains of Ultron's robots and such in the area that could have been snatched up by an emergent Doom for research, to form the basis of his Doombots and other technological advancements.

    They've set the groundwork and it's a REALLY small leap to introducing Doom and Latveria with every connection you need to make already established in the canon.


  13. #11393
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    That's what makes him a great villain. He's right up there with Magneto and at least the MCU iteration of Zemo; they may be willing to do terrible things, but are their goals actually wrong?
    By the same logic, MCU Thanos had noble goals as well. Sure, he killed half the universe...but only so the remaining half could eventually thrive.

  14. #11394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    By the same logic, MCU Thanos had noble goals as well. Sure, he killed half the universe...but only so the remaining half could eventually thrive.
    He had understandable goals. But obviously, if you or those you care about are among those Snapped, you're gonna have an issue with it, even ignoring the long-term irrelevance.

    Doom's Latveria is a really nice place to live, for Latverians who are eager and willing subjects. If you don't try and buck Doom's control, you live a safe, comfortable, successful, protected lifestyle. All Doom asks is that you subject yourself to Doom's reign. Latveria's kind of comparable to Wakanda in a lot of ways; it has better education, economic returns, safety and security for citizens, and a world presence far out of scale with its geographic size; in the comics, Latveria's considered a world superpower competitive with the USA, for instance.

    Doom's control isn't predicated on any bigotries or prejudices, either. He's pretty open-minded, as long as you accept Doom as your rightful monarch, so the usual petty brutalities of most dictatorships don't exist. Or rather, are limited just to those who try and oppose Doom's regime.


  15. #11395
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He had understandable goals. But obviously, if you or those you care about are among those Snapped, you're gonna have an issue with it, even ignoring the long-term irrelevance.
    The same applies for Doom though. If he felt half the people of Latveria had to die to save the other half...he would make that choice without question. Thanos at least would make the deaths random. Doom would show a preference for those that showed fealty to him. I mean, one just has to look at marvels most recent Secret Wars to see what would happen if Doom became a god. Or even just the original Secret Wars. MCU Thanos used the Gauntlet twice. The First time was to destroy half the life in the universe. The Second was to destroy the Stones. Doom would never willingly relinquish that power.

    Doom's Latveria is a really nice place to live, for Latverians who are eager and willing subjects. If you don't try and buck Doom's control, you live a safe, comfortable, successful, protected lifestyle. All Doom asks is that you subject yourself to Doom's reign. Latveria's kind of comparable to Wakanda in a lot of ways; it has better education, economic returns, safety and security for citizens, and a world presence far out of scale with its geographic size; in the comics, Latveria's considered a world superpower competitive with the USA, for instance.
    No freedom though. You submit to Doom or you die. Wakanda at least allows for a fair challenge to the throne. Each tribe has a voice. In Latveria, the only authority is Doom.

    Doom's control isn't predicated on any bigotries or prejudices, either. He's pretty open-minded, as long as you accept Doom as your rightful monarch, so the usual petty brutalities of most dictatorships don't exist. Or rather, are limited just to those who try and oppose Doom's regime.
    Sure, Doom is an equal opportunity tyrant...but he's still a tyrant.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-05-08 at 10:44 PM.

  16. #11396
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Doom basically embodies the question; is an absolutely brutal and ruthless dictator, who nevertheless holds the welfare of his people as his mission, a better or worse option than freedom and liberty and the risks inherent within?

    What he's willing to do in pursuit of his goals is absolutely "evil" by any definition. But his goals are . . . complicated. He seeks to subjugate, but not really for personal glorification, but because Doom really does know better, and everyone'll be better off if he gets to run the show.

    That's what makes him a great villain. He's right up there with Magneto and at least the MCU iteration of Zemo; they may be willing to do terrible things, but are their goals actually wrong?
    That's a somewhat subjective pov imo. For instance, would you rather live in Latveria if you were a human in the Marvel universe or somewhere else? I think it could be stated that Doom is a competent leader who is obviously extremely intelligent but how that actually translates into being a citizen of his country is hard to say, more so as opposed to being a citizen in any other country in the world. I think it's a subjective thing.

  17. #11397
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He had understandable goals. But obviously, if you or those you care about are among those Snapped, you're gonna have an issue with it, even ignoring the long-term irrelevance.

    Doom's Latveria is a really nice place to live, for Latverians who are eager and willing subjects. If you don't try and buck Doom's control, you live a safe, comfortable, successful, protected lifestyle. All Doom asks is that you subject yourself to Doom's reign. Latveria's kind of comparable to Wakanda in a lot of ways; it has better education, economic returns, safety and security for citizens, and a world presence far out of scale with its geographic size; in the comics, Latveria's considered a world superpower competitive with the USA, for instance.

    Doom's control isn't predicated on any bigotries or prejudices, either. He's pretty open-minded, as long as you accept Doom as your rightful monarch, so the usual petty brutalities of most dictatorships don't exist. Or rather, are limited just to those who try and oppose Doom's regime.
    Look, I get it, it's just fiction. But if the MCU tried to show a merciful, intelligent, goodwilled tyrant with -any- redeeming qualities or goals, people would immediately draw parallels to real life countries, and accuse Disney/Marvel of whitewashing historical or current dictatorships.

    It's something comics can get away with, but movies can't.

    Thanos was an eco-terrorist alien with ridiculous goals and whose actions caused harm on a cosmic scale. And he was already pushing it.

    You simply can't have a sympathetic human villain doing the kind of things you describe. At best, they'll do another Loki/Zemo, a likeable criminal with a moral code. Maybe the leader of some Flag-Smashers-like group in Latveria. Or, he'll be an actual tyrant, but your average batshit crazy mass murderer who gets killed in one movie.

  18. #11398
    Doom is sometimes in a story about a him with bad guys that say they want to rule the world, most of which actually want to destroy it. And when their real agenda becomes revealed it's "Vader Syndrome."

  19. #11399
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    If the person who leaked Infinity War, Endgame and Spider-Man: FFH is to be believed, then the next "over-arching" villain is supposed to be Norman Osborn.


    Personally... I hope not.

  20. #11400
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    If the person who leaked Infinity War, Endgame and Spider-Man: FFH is to be believed, then the next "over-arching" villain is supposed to be Norman Osborn.


    Personally... I hope not.
    He's . . . just a guy. Give Sam super-soldier serum and pumpkin bombs, and there you have it; Norman Osborn as the Green Goblin and his entire power set. He only poses a significant issue for Peter Parker because of the personal relationships involved mucking everything up.

    I'd be hard-pressed to figure out why Hawkeye doesn't just put an arrow in his skull some evening, if they decide he's an Avengers-level threat.


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