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  1. #961
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    they didn't...

    and los where?

    he pulled all this

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/3ka08HT.png[img]

    where do we los the explosives? not only me... we... last time i saw pugs line of sighting explosives was in freehold in bfa...

    Tank on one cross, move to other cross to LOS. Easy


    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    he tanked them where the spear is... rounding them up there... you think people are going to run behind the wall? i don't think they would...
    Probably not, but that's why we have party chat, so you can tell them to! It's a miracle what you can make people do if you communicate

    almost every fucking group i am the only one doing explosives no matter what healer i'm on... none of the dps touches them... nor the tank...
    Maybe you should start being more careful with who you invite?

    one of the tanks in a group... on why he doesn't kill explosives...



    ...
    He's bad, invite better tanks

    no wipes to bursting this week... all wipes i've had this week has come down to explosives or people not doing mechanics or too low dps on bosses... not bursting...
    And I've only had deaths to bursting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...
    I've seen 1800 people who don't know how to interrupt, and ended with ~4k overall dps

    Check logs too if you actually want to make sure they know how to play

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    Best way to prevent M+ leavers imo. Leave a m+ and a piece of your armor gets broken and can't repair it till next reset.
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post

    Tank on one cross, move to other cross to LOS. Easy
    For this the tank would actually have to tank there, not at spear. Midpull it's hard to save such a situation. + you expect pugs to actually do mechanics.

  4. #964
    The backseat gaming here is amazing.
    “Just do the dozens of explosives yourself”

    “Just los them. And also tell the group to los them at this specific place while the tank gets beaten up by a dozen mobs. Just start chatting”

    You guys are hilarious

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Give leavers the deserter debuff. Seems fair to me.
    only if its 3-4 as long as deserting a random dungeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    they didn't...

    and los where?

    he pulled all this



    where do we los the explosives? not only me... we... last time i saw pugs line of sighting explosives was in freehold in bfa...

    he tanked them where the spear is... rounding them up there... you think people are going to run behind the wall? i don't think they would...

    almost every fucking group i am the only one doing explosives no matter what healer i'm on... none of the dps touches them... nor the tank...

    one of the tanks in a group... on why he doesn't kill explosives...



    ...

    no wipes to bursting this week... all wipes i've had this week has come down to explosives or people not doing mechanics or too low dps on bosses... not bursting...
    who the fuck pulls the gatekeepet????? thats the WORST route i have seen for necrotic wake

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.
    i actually agree with this, they need some sort of punishment for this

  6. #966
    I just don't see it. Can't remember the last time anyone left my group.

    Probably because I'm healing and I'll just carry them all to victory!

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    I just don't see it. Can't remember the last time anyone left my group.

    Probably because I'm healing and I'll just carry them all to victory!
    tanks are the main leaves that i see otherwise its a rio hunter dps that cant read the title of a grp put up in the browser

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    tanks are the main leaves that i see otherwise its a rio hunter dps that cant read the title of a grp put up in the browser
    plenty people leave when group is false advertised.

    if someone names groups as " ++ uber big d...ck dps , blasters only , timed push" then people who join such groups expect exackly that thing.

    if they see that group is performing badly - they leave

    and i cant blame them - usually you can predict with 95% accuracy how group will go after first 2 trash pulls .

    if im going after toxic io score not weekly then i will leave such group

    if addon starts tracking that i will just start to fake dc and swap to alts.

    there is no point in wasting time carrying others - because thats how you end up with 1500 io people not doing tactics - they got carried by others.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    how the fuck am i supposed to kill all explosives spawning from like 20 mobs? you don't pull like 20 mobs during explosive...
    That's easy team effort. HoA mini-boss room gets those spawned all over the place the second you enter the combat. I would have been more worried by bursting, explosives are not a problem unless your party is not that good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    The backseat gaming here is amazing.
    “Just do the dozens of explosives yourself”

    “Just los them. And also tell the group to los them at this specific place while the tank gets beaten up by a dozen mobs. Just start chatting”

    You guys are hilarious
    Is it what you should do in a pug? No
    Why would even join such group?

    But let's not act like those pulls are not doable. Especially on a 14 on tyra. Mobs barely do any damage, explosives are not impossible either if it's a team effort. Bursting is the hardest but pala can bubble sac and dispel another one, if you have some other immunities in the party - not a problem again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    This is a genius idea, actually.

    I propose the following: a piece of your armor breaks in a way that requires a somewhat expensive item from the Auction House to fix it.
    So you will get punished if you have a troll/afker?
    You can't get a punishment in MANUALLY assembled group content, any solution I have ever seen either opens it to griefing and abuse or punishes potentially innocent people.
    In few years of doing m+ at a competitive level, I only saw one intentionally malicious player and I still remember it. Imagine if some toxic trash would stop leaving and start trolling instead? You wouldn't get support from CS as each case would have to be reviewed manually by a COMPETENT m+ player to determine if it was malicious or was someone actually just learning the m+. Imagine how many reports would come for "griefing" just because of "wrong" routes, no interrupts/not lusting/bad lusting. You have that in LoL - people reporting intentional feeding on people who die twice or if someone does not engage in obviously stupid fight and that one dumbo jumps in and dies, then start reporting you for "Afking"

    I mean some guy called me few names and told me that I will get banned for "griefing" in World PvP quest location with WM ON.
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2021-05-10 at 08:28 AM.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    That's easy team effort. HoA mini-boss room gets those spawned all over the place the second you enter the combat. I would have been more worried by bursting, explosives are not a problem unless your party is not that good.
    You are indeed right, but you expect this from a pug. You can never, ever expect such a gameplay from a pug below 17/18 at all. There are people who are this good, but the majority of the playerbase is not.

    All your assumptions are from the view of higher-scored pugs (-> plenty of exp) or premades. Never assume that a pug is able to deal with specific pulls.
    Depending on the classsetup 20 enemies are absolutely stupid, as most classes are capped with their aoe anyways. If you do not have any uncapped specs in your group, this is the worst you could do - the pull that this specific tank did even spawns endless enemies, which further possibly negates dmg to the important enemies.

    Agreeing with you on the punishment part. There is no good solution that wouldn't hurt either the innocent or would require blizzard to hire plenty of people just for checking hundreds of reports a day.

    Ha, had this in Rift - I camped the PvPvE Quest location alone and killed everyone there, had exact this experience. Was funny tho, many grouped up people, still to bad to kill one single player. Had my fun and never recieved any banns or whatever for it.
    Last edited by Bloodyleech; 2021-05-10 at 08:33 AM.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    SNIP
    That's why it's a bad move in a pug by the tank. + NW is not something where you want to do 20 mob pull in the first place unless you commit CDs and BL. I suspect it was either a tank who doesn't do pugs and is used to doing something what he perceives as "perfectly doable" or he just tried to copy someone/something.

    I have been caught by doing pulls which is hard for pugs to handle myself and if I do pug, I have to constantly remind myself that there is plenty of time to do "easy" stuff because when I do three pack pull and people don't commit CDs/does not provide support/interrupt wrong stuff it frustrates me greatly, but it's ultimately my own overestimation of what we can do. Altho when I pug players into 19s or 20s there is no real option to hesitate, but that's a different world, most people actually care about the route before we even go in.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    That's why it's a bad move in a pug by the tank. + NW is not something where you want to do 20 mob pull in the first place unless you commit CDs and BL. I suspect it was either a tank who doesn't do pugs and is used to doing something what he perceives as "perfectly doable" or he just tried to copy someone/something.

    I have been caught by doing pulls which is hard for pugs to handle myself and if I do pug, I have to constantly remind myself that there is plenty of time to do "easy" stuff because when I do three pack pull and people don't commit CDs/does not provide support/interrupt wrong stuff it frustrates me greatly, but it's ultimately my own overestimation of what we can do. Altho when I pug players into 19s or 20s there is no real option to hesitate, but that's a different world, most people actually care about the route before we even go in.
    In 19+ content, yeah, people should know what to use and when to use it, how to utilize the terrain and so on. If I'm not wrong, the pulls after certain levels are always the same, no matter the key-level? Therefore, people in those ranges usually have the required experience. There are always black sheeps, but in your level range they should not be as frequent as in mid keys (10-15).

    To the tank in question - I do not think that anyone sane would actually pull the gatedude. There is no reason to do it, whatever the route is. I really question this pull strategy made by him (especially in a pug, but even outside).

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    tanks are the main leaves that i see otherwise its a rio hunter dps that cant read the title of a grp put up in the browser
    Ironically, if you put "no leavers" in the title you are more likely to get leavers, as the quality of players applying will drop substantially.

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    To the tank in question - I do not think that anyone sane would actually pull the gatedude. There is no reason to do it, whatever the route is. I really question this pull strategy made by him (especially in a pug, but even outside).
    You get several set ups, but yeah, most of the time you pull all the same mobs, just change order some times depending on affixes or if your party is out of CDs, you do one small pull which was double originally and then do double or triple after. It's more like "you don't want 3x of this mob in this pull" or we have to do this pull now so CDs are back for the pride/boss. All depends on your comps cds

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    plenty people leave when group is false advertised.

    if someone names groups as " ++ uber big d...ck dps , blasters only , timed push" then people who join such groups expect exackly that thing.

    if they see that group is performing badly - they leave

    and i cant blame them - usually you can predict with 95% accuracy how group will go after first 2 trash pulls .

    if im going after toxic io score not weekly then i will leave such group

    if addon starts tracking that i will just start to fake dc and swap to alts.

    there is no point in wasting time carrying others - because thats how you end up with 1500 io people not doing tactics - they got carried by others.
    here's the thing tho i advertise mine as either "+x" "chill run" or " for weekly vault" not my fault people cant read and bail when its not time able

    if you are hunting io score why are you joining a grp that advertises that their key is for weekly? as there a fair chance that it wont be timed

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    Ironically, if you put "no leavers" in the title you are more likely to get leavers, as the quality of players applying will drop substantially.
    This is true. "No leavers" is highly aromatic troll bait. It's bad enough that there are people who do this to get people going. Advertising it will just increase your odds.

  17. #977
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Give leavers the deserter debuff. Seems fair to me.
    Define leaver... Also, how does this prevent a person who wants to leave but doesn't want the debuff purposely screw with the group until someone else leaves first?

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    Best way to prevent M+ leavers imo. Leave a m+ and a piece of your armor gets broken and can't repair it till next reset.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    This is a genius idea, actually.
    Not really. So instead of just leaving (and causing a downgraded key), players will now sabotage the group by purposely failing. Oops, we got that extra pack because "tab targeting" cause me to hit that pack way over there. Oops, looks like the healer stood in the fire and died early on a boss fight, I guess we're wiping. Or any other "creative" ways to waste the time of the group so that someone else leaves first and gets that penalty.

    But we can report the bad player? Lols, here's the problem: Are they truly trolling/griefing or just a bad player?
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  18. #978
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    that's most pug tanks...

    case in point...



    put my own key up... this guy had 1.5k rio... thought ok... it's just a 14...

    he shifted out from bear and died almost instantly at second pull...

    then he did the same thing on third pull and then left after i told him to remove his buttons so he can't shift out of bear lol... it's so absurd... i would have left myself if he didn't leave and did it again lol...
    That is fucking funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post

    Tank on one cross, move to other cross to LOS. Easy


    Probably not, but that's why we have party chat, so you can tell them to! It's a miracle what you can make people do if you communicate

    Maybe you should start being more careful with who you invite?

    He's bad, invite better tanks

    And I've only had deaths to bursting.

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    I've seen 1800 people who don't know how to interrupt, and ended with ~4k overall dps

    Check logs too if you actually want to make sure they know how to play
    Hah, blaming the healer for the shitty tank mechanics. I've met your type in groups before. Good times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    who the fuck pulls the gatekeepet????? thats the WORST route i have seen for necrotic wake
    Yeah, that's pretty fucking horrible.

    {s}
    But if the healer had been better......

    Or if the healer had communicated better...

    Certainly wasn't the tank's fault
    {/s}
    Last edited by callipygoustp; 2021-05-10 at 04:07 PM.

  19. #979
    Had a failed +8 Necrotic Wake on an alt the other day, the ret paladin kept messing up (he got fixated first on third boss and didn't run away, died, we failed due to lack of dps) and he was also the one to leave after a few wipes.

    Mildly frustrating since IMO at that level you should know the mechanics, but it does seem very common for the person who is the problem to also be the one to leave.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    Had a failed +8 Necrotic Wake on an alt the other day, the ret paladin kept messing up (he got fixated first on third boss and didn't run away, died, we failed due to lack of dps) and he was also the one to leave after a few wipes.

    Mildly frustrating since IMO at that level you should know the mechanics, but it does seem very common for the person who is the problem to also be the one to leave.
    Dying there due to fixate is .. interesting, when you have a paladin in there. Bubble and BoP counter all of the 2 fixate that could happen, even with low dps in a +8. Bad paladin, yeah.
    I wonder how you wiped due to low dps tho - with the current free 197 gear you deal enough dmg to duo dps any boss in these key levels.
    What was the general ST dps of the dps in group? Below 3000 is def a skillproblem that has to be fixed before going dungeons, at all.

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