So i got a response from J Allen Brack (which I wasn't expecting)

[tikcol]

I can inspect element on a page and change what it displays and screenshot it. I can also fake email chains pretty easily.

Not that it matters whether or not it's fake, you just got the usual generic response to your generic 'fire ion' generic feedback

[Wries]

I'm gaining just a smidge of respect for Brack, doing the right thing by politely shooting down streamer/youtuber fanboyism in defense of a competent game designer.

Regarding wanting Ion removed: you think you do but you don't ;P

[Ryzeth]

I wish I had the confidence of OP, to post something as garbage as this to a wide audience, and expect them to praise me for it.

He responded to you about the way he should have. Especially given the ones you cited as being some apparent source of great credibility. He's right in that all 3 of them do (almost) nothing but incite their audience to try and hate on WoW. Those aren't the kinds of people you listen to, or whose feedback you should particularly care about, when looking to make big changes to your game.

[Berri]

The argument was lost the moment you mentioned youtubers as proof of anything xD. Also, comparing whatever Bellular is developing to a Blizzard game ... surely Bellullar games have to please the board and investors.

Sorry but why should I, as a player, accept the game being bad because the board and investors are the main stakeholders that are being catered to? This mentality is just insane to me. I used to play wow to forget this real-life bullshit, but now it needs to be reflected in the soullessness of basically everything in the game? CBA.

You know when I noticed that something really is wrong and not just the usual "WOw iS dEAd LoL"? When even Taliesin started to be critical.

Lol exactly.

Btw this email chain is cringe af. I think you're raising valid concerns and +1 for trying to go into discussion with these guys directly, but daily mails and personal attacks are not going to help your cause. Probably the opposite. If I thought my entire audience was made up of individuals like this, I'd ignore the feedback too.

[Wangming]

does he still use his fake snake oil salesman smile when he's critical of the game? I can't watch his videos because of it. Always gives me the creeps.

Actually he doesn't. Or not as much, anyway. But yes he used to do that a lot while praising the game for literally everything and explaining why complaints are not valid. To me, him being critical was lik...uh-oh. It does improve him videos for me though. Now he comes across as somebody who weighs the pros and cons and doesn't just support everything. Dunno who is left on the positive side though.

[Stickiler]

It's a continous decline that's been happening for the past 3-4 years, something like "waiting for the new expac" doesn't explain it.
HotS has been in maintenance mode for almost three years by now, at a certain point, that's just not going to have any massive impact anymore.

Naturally this isn't solely down to WoW, but seeing such a steep decline and assuming that their biggest franchise is unaffected is just wishful thinking.

As a reminder back in Q 2018, Blizzard had 38MAU, from there, they lost 1-2M MAU's every quarter.

It hasn't been a steady decline. They lost 6M MAUs over 2018, which is over half the total loss they had in the three years, they stayed almost perfectly steady from Q1 2019 - Q1 2020, and then lost 1-2m MAU per quarter over Q2 2020-2021.


Also, to be clear, at no point did I say WoW wasn't affected. But WoW absolutely wasn't the sole cause of the 30%, especially given WoW revenue rose 7% each year during those MAU losses. I don't think WoWs subs rose, I think it's more people switching to the Token instead of paying for their sub directly, but it's pretty clear WoW didn't lose even close to the 30% that people are suggesting. And that is what they're saying, go back to the OP and he's like "They lost 30% wow players".

[noladrew]

I wish I had the confidence of OP, to post something as garbage as this to a wide audience, and expect them to praise me for it.

He responded to you about the way he should have. Especially given the ones you cited as being some apparent source of great credibility. He's right in that all 3 of them do (almost) nothing but incite their audience to try and hate on WoW. Those aren't the kinds of people you listen to, or whose feedback you should particularly care about, when looking to make big changes to your game.

Negative. He should not have responded to this toilet humor (at best) at all. This wasn't constructive or productive in the slightest. Content creators are nothing more than entertainment and should be treated as such. Just as stated in his reply, these people thrive (monetarily) on drama and "excitement", good, and bad excitement. When someone is being paid for their opinion, it always seems to be a bit less relevant to me and less honest.

[deenman]

Stop moving the goal posts. You said Classic lost 90% after the first week, which is so dumb its laughable. Now youre saying its now a ghost town. Thanks for the anecdotes. Really backs up your fallacious claims.

how did i move the goal post?its a literal fact it lost over 90% from the first week or so,every realm had huge ques,now they dont exist

[RemasteredClassic]

I'm gaining just a smidge of respect for Brack, doing the right thing by politely shooting down streamer/youtuber fanboyism in defense of a competent game designer.

Regarding wanting Ion removed: you think you do but you don't ;P

Ion lead Legion dev, let’s not forget that. One of the best expansions on par with WoTLK even tho I actually like it more than WoTLK.

[Fynzie]

"This is where your knowledge on these people are very clearly lacking and it show. Belluar is, in fact, a dev."

I've seen some cringe shit on these forums but man, this is a whole new level.

[Kralljin]

It hasn't been a steady decline. They lost 6M MAUs over 2018, which is over half the total loss they had in the three years, they stayed almost perfectly steady from Q1 2019 - Q1 2020, and then lost 1-2m MAU per quarter over Q2 2020-2021.

I really have no interest in debating whether this qualifies as a steady decline or not, point is, they lost it over multiple years, there is no massive outliner where they lost a sizeable chunk, rather they bled 1-3M MAU over the course of multiple quarters.

If you look at this and say: "Actually this is not a steady decline, this is X", then whatever.

[Daymanmb]

how did i move the goal post?its a literal fact it lost over 90% from the first week or so,every realm had huge ques,now they dont exist

Well, the first week was over a year ago. Are you high? That week that you claim, without proof, lost 90% of the player base, was at the beginning of the game, we're now at the end.. am I talking to a retarded person? You seem to be having a reeeaal hard time keeping up with and backing up your argument.

[deenman]

Well, the first week was over a year ago. Are you high? That week that you claim, without proof, lost 90% of the player base, was at the beginning of the game, we're now at the end.. am I talking to a retarded person? You seem to be having a reeeaal hard time keeping up with and backing up your argument?

ykes,imagine lettign personal bias get in the face of hard facts,and resulting to petty insults,cope much?

[Daymanmb]

ykes,imagine lettign personal bias get in the face of hard facts,and resulting to petty insults,cope much?

Theres no bias here. Your just talking out your ass and Im calling you on it. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim other than, "there were queues, now there arent"?

I know you dont, because youre talking out of your ass and projecting like a champ.

[Spacewalrus2010]

If this is even true, which I don't even know...

It's just sad.

[kukkamies]

how did i move the goal post?its a literal fact it lost over 90% from the first week or so,every realm had huge ques,now they dont exist

90% doesn't sound real at all. I'd believe 50% or 70%. 90% means it'd drop from 10 million into 1 million. Which is my guess for current pop according to active raiders logs, which is 225k excluding China.

10 million first week players sounds way too much. 4 million is my guess for first week which would be 75% drop on active players. Still a lot but two thirds less than that 90%.
Though even 4 million sounds like a lot. Think classic should be more smaller than retail wow launch weeks.

[deenman]

Theres no bias here. Your just talking out your ass and Im calling you on it. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim other than, "there were queues, now there arent"?

I know you dont, because youre talking out of your ass and projecting like a champ.

uhm...yeah,thats the evidence,the first week almost every realm had huge thausands of ques,they were almost all gone expect for 1-2 realms after a week...seriously,how is this hard?

- - - Updated - - -

90% doesn't sound real at all. I'd believe 50% or 70%. 90% means it'd drop from 10 million into 1 million. Which is my guess for current pop according to active raiders logs, which is 225k excluding China.

10 million first week players sounds way too much. 4 million is my guess for first week which would be 75% drop on active players. Still a lot but two thirds less than that 90%.
Though even 4 million sounds like a lot. Think classic should be more smaller than retail wow launch weeks.

i really dont think 10 milion first week sounds to much at all

[MoanaLisa]

If you look at this and say: "Actually this is not a steady decline, this is X", then whatever.

I think clearly this shows a steady decline. The issue really is whether or not because people have left Wow—I'm sure they have but the actual numbers aren't available and are complicated by enormous expansion sales—or whether the deeper problem is that Blizzard hasn't managed to release any new games in more than five years. Personally, I think the latter has more to do with it but that's just an opinion. New product is life for game studios though. There hasn't been any in some time and the slate ahead is more of the same: retreads, expansions, etc. New, but not really new. Blizzard has been dead in the water for new titles for a very long while now. Even Overwatch, successful as it has been, was a salvage job on a failed highly anticipated project that originally was nothing like what eventually emerged.

There are a lot of problems with Blizzard and their games but this...this is something that rarely gets discussed and is a serious problem.

[Daymanmb]

uhm...yeah,thats the evidence,the first week almost every realm had huge thausands of ques,they were almost all gone expect for 1-2 realms after a week...seriously,how is this hard?

Right, well youre talking out your ass and letting your bias do the debating, while accusing me of bias. Take care ass talker.

[Le Conceptuel]

Right, well youre talking out your ass and letting your bias do the debating, while accusing me of bias. Take care ass talker.

Both of you are being immensely petty. Instead of insulting one another or talking out of your asses, maybe you could both do to find actual evidence to support your claims instead of throwing insults. Perhaps it would behoove you to develop better critical thinking skills? MAU across quarters is being discussed right here, so instead of talking out both your asses, maybe just reference the images that are currently being discussed entirely concurrently with this discussion?

It is true, admittedly, that the MAU chart doesn't go past 2020's last quarter, which is a problem because we have no way of necessarily proving it with this information, but this makes it pretty evident there are other ways to garner information than educated guesses. Surely there is some way of measuring the alteration between Q4 2020 and Q1 2021 beyond @deenman's asinine assumptions based on something as nonsensical as server queues?