So i got a response from J Allen Brack (which I wasn't expecting)

[Kumorii]

I didn't say it was dead though, so you're the one being hyperbolic. It isn't dead - but it is essentially abandoned by its developers.

I didn't say you did say that though... the other guy said dead, you said effectively abandoned, I addressed both of those terms and how both of them are wrong.
Unless you can point to where you think I claimed you said it was "dead". So I can correct it or explain further if needed.
So I don't agree on me being hyperbolic, but sorry if I didn't make myself clear in the post.

[Raisei]

I see posts like this and I just fucking cringe.

Some people are just so salty and jealous that others are bettering themselves and trying to do something special and better and others just cannot fucking take it. Grow up Orange Joe.

The point is that Bellular has no experience developing or managing a multi-million dollar Triple-A title, but he loves to act like it. Hence why he is not a credible source to base arguments on, neither is any other youtuber. They only point out what they like and dislike, taking that as a qualified opinion is wrong, which Brack (if this is not fake) tells our OP.

Especially since they make more money the more drama there is, their aim is not improving the game, but stoking the flames and no one does this more succefully then Bellular and his click-bait videos.

[Thraps]

Pretty sure the e-mail of Brack is publicly available.

the other variant, probably his public one is readily available, this one however is not. Its basic respect to block personal information whether its publicly available or not if your posting it to a community say on forums very much like these. Now i dont disagree with his post at all I fall into the bracket where i think he's right in what he's saying, however the security of information is a problem.

[Wangming]

WoW's initial success up to Wrath was something of an anomaly, and an element of right place right time.

Isn't that what all Blizz success was? They never invented everything really. They gave their spin on genres when they were starting to get popular. And back in the days, those spins were pretty good. But honestly nowadays I feel like they've lost their mojo. Or their fucks to give. Take your pick.

[Wangming]

The point is that Bellular has no experience developing or managing a multi-million dollar Triple-A title, but he loves to act like it. Hence why he is not a credible source to base arguments on, neither is any other youtuber. .

On the one hand you are absolutely correct. On the other hand If you go to a restaurant and the food is spoiled you are entitled to complain even if you don't have a Michelin star restaurant. And if it repeatedly happen, who else to blame but the chef? Or in the case of a video game, the Game Director.

[XDurionX]

A hobby indie dev with a publisher who has believed their vision afaik, whos put multiple years of his early life into setting up a company office team and designing an entire game, yet people are just shitting on him, the irony is that most of the people shitting on him are probably in dead end soul destroying shit jobs and are just jealous that hes doing well for himself, its fucking cringe. Im a dev myself and I personally agree with the vast majority of what he says, hes not complaining, hes just stating the obvious terrible design this game has gone. And you can talk about 16 years experience all you like, the fact is that year on year with exception of a few expansions like legion, this game polls worse and worse and continues to have major player issues more than it ever has, so obviously the design isnt so fucking rosey is it.

Once he has designed an actual game, i might call him a game developer, until then, he's a karen telling his baker how to make bread. Fact is, the vast majority of player feedback is emotional, unusable garbage that isn't thought through very well and would certainly ruin WoW. Maintaining such a high profile franchise IS hard, and most people don't have a clue. This thread being the prime example.

[Raisei]

A hobby indie dev with a publisher who has believed their vision afaik, whos put multiple years of his early life into setting up a company office team and designing an entire game, yet people are just shitting on him, the irony is that most of the people shitting on him are probably in dead end soul destroying shit jobs and are just jealous that hes doing well for himself, its fucking cringe. Im a dev myself and I personally agree with the vast majority of what he says, hes not complaining, hes just stating the obvious terrible design this game has gone. And you can talk about 16 years experience all you like, the fact is that year on year with exception of a few expansions like legion, this game polls worse and worse and continues to have major player issues more than it ever has, so obviously the design isnt so fucking rosey is it.

Let us hope then that whatever game he makes (if it ever releases) will please absolutely everyone so some random youtuber does not make a channel with endless complains about it that rapidly becomes the echo chamber for all those dissatisfied with his game.

[Sanguinerd]

Good lord.. it's hard to believe this is actually real as I'm feeling some second hand shame reading it all. You couldn't even be arsed to write a proper letter.. I'm surprised he even replied at all (IF it's real).

And then to make it even worse you go out of your way to "well actually... Bellular is a dev" lmao!

I'm 100% on JAB side when he says to ignore the fuck out of all 3 of them, they do NOT represent the community and their voice is already too loud.

Does Blizzard and WoW have problems? YES most definitely but using Preach and Bellular is not the way to make it any better considering their opinion flipflops whenever it suits them.

[Thraps]

While I respect your dissatisfaction with the game's course, I find this letter and apparently how it was spammed, to be an example of why player feedback should be considered very conservatively and how in some cases it should be disregarded. Like the rest of his responses, I fully agree with Brack's assessment of the three youtubers/streamers you give as an example. Not only do I dislike them, but they definitely do not speak for me and it's clear as they how they monetize hate, much like the regular trash medias.

I don't see Preach for example monetising hate, infact his you tube channel is de-monetised from drama time, he gives an opinion based on his player experience and that of his community. You take the time to watch Preach he is fairly balanced in his comments, ive heard him praise systems and also dislike systems. Same with Asmongold, his content can be toxic a lot of the time, but if you really take the time to listen and not seen the persona projected 90% of the time, he actually praises more than being negative towards blizzard. For example one of the most controversial topics in TBC Classic being had, Asmongold was actually ok with it. His community is toxic tho that is one thing that is certain, but that is not the fault of Asmongold, that's just the audience's attitude. Bellular is an enigma he used to be ok, but lately the massive rants and that other guy on his clips channel just puts me to sleep, so i never manage to actually get through his content anymore.

im not defending these content creators simply putting that you should really listen to what they are actually saying first, because its just false what your saying.

[Raisei]

Once he has designed an actual game, i might call him a game developer, until then, he's a karen telling his baker how to make bread. Fact is, the vast majority of player feedback is emotional, unusable garbage that isn't thought through very well and would certainly ruin WoW. Maintaining such a high profile franchise IS hard, and most people don't have a clue. This thread being the prime example.

Exactly this. Well said.

[Thraps]

I'm 100% on JAB side when he says to ignore the fuck out of all 3 of them, they do NOT represent the community and their voice is already too loud.

Do they not, they represent their community and audience who express opinions on their content. I wouldn't take what a content creator says as gospel anyway, they all do very different things in the game, Preach is more of a PVE raid/Dungeon guy, Asmongold is a casual TMog/Mounts/achievements master, Bellular is casual and lore content, all very different ways of projecting content to the community. With the audiences and FEEDBACK they get they do represent a lot of people who express their opinions to them as they know Blizzard will be watching. Now they may not represent you but you cant de-validate the people they do represent.

- - - Updated - - -

Was thinking the same from a security point of view, personally identifiable info but then again it’s the CEO and this info is probably already public.

Glad you think so mate, there is another version of his email which is public, the one posted here is not. If its even real of course.

[Vakir]

I'm reminded of that one cringey guy that emailed Gabe Newell. This is sad to look at.

[Garymorilix]

A hobby indie dev with a publisher who has believed their vision afaik, whos put multiple years of his early life into setting up a company office team and designing an entire game, yet people are just shitting on him, the irony is that most of the people shitting on him are probably in dead end soul destroying shit jobs and are just jealous that hes doing well for himself, its fucking cringe. Im a dev myself and I personally agree with the vast majority of what he says, hes not complaining, hes just stating the obvious terrible design this game has gone. And you can talk about 16 years experience all you like, the fact is that year on year with exception of a few expansions like legion, this game polls worse and worse and continues to have major player issues more than it ever has, so obviously the design isnt so fucking rosey is it.

Who cares if someone pours their "early life" into something if they are still unable to produce anything in what, years now?
Don't be fucking delusional.

Why are you defending him so much anyway, going so far as dissing people who are "stuck in soul sucking jobs"?
A plumber has infinitely more value than fucking Bellular does. And they actually can show their work at least.

He ain't done nothing in the past 2 years than constantly shit on everything related to WoW.
But we can't call him out on his bullshit non-existent fucking authority?

There is no obvious terrible design, the last I checked millions of people still play WoW and it's still the #1 go-to MMO worldwide.
Fuckin' 16 year old game racking in more money now than you and Bellular combined in your lifetimes.

Numbers speak, not your opinions. For every doomsayer like you there are a group of 5 too busy doing M+ to even care about what you have to say on this forum.

[Lolites]

With the audiences and FEEDBACK they get they do represent a lot of people who express their opinions to them as they know Blizzard will be watching

do they though? do they represent what players think OR players think that bcs they said so?
some people are like sheep, their fav youtuber says something they immediately take that opinion as their own...

[Sanguinerd]

Do they not, they represent their community and audience who express opinions on their content. I wouldn't take what a content creator says as gospel anyway, they all do very different things in the game, Preach is more of a PVE raid/Dungeon guy, Asmongold is a casual TMog/Mounts/achievements master, Bellular is casual and lore content, all very different ways of projecting content to the community. With the audiences and FEEDBACK they get they do represent a lot of people who express their opinions to them as they know Blizzard will be watching. Now they may not represent you but you cant de-validate the people they do represent.

Their community that just echoes what they hear from them to begin with which is exactly what happens.

Not saying people are not dissatisfied, as they have every right to be, but as you say it's not gospel. Just bugs me when people pretend it is and bring that shit to the attention of people like Brack as if it's somehow more important.

[XDurionX]

I mean shit like what you wrote just amazes me. You have 0 clue how difficult it is to make movies and games, you cant say that until his game releases he isnt a dev. Not how it works lol.

Well, yes i do, that's pretty much what i said, that it's difficult. I have a M.Sc. in computer science. I don't work in development, but i have a middle management position in technical customer service. It's my job to qualify nonsensical feedback, every single day of my working routine. I understand very well how all of this works. I couldn't do it, you couldn't do it, and most certainly Bellular can't either. I stand by every word i said.

I'm still open to him surprising me by releasing a great game. But i won't hold my breath. I pretty much expect some generic Indie-shovelware, that might pay for its development, but nothing more.

[Thraps]

do they though? do they represent what players think OR players think that bcs they said so?
some people are like sheep, their fav youtuber says something they immediately take that opinion as their own...

This is certainly the case probably more times than it isn't. However doesn't that content creator appeal to the people that are watching that creator and they watch because they share the same view point initially anyway? Also you check through some of the comments posted on their content a lot of them have there own opinions on the subject, look at the interview Preach did with Ion on Twitch, Preach didn't seem too fussed in what was said but the community at the time was posting a very different side in their opinions. Then he made a video saying his community/the people who were watching as they wont of all been his community, wasn't happy with this response.

Content creators are subjective right. You take the information they present and formulate your opinion to the other information you have available, PTR, Pacth notes etc etc. You look at when people are unhappy they don't have a clue how to present constructive criticism to Blizzard, its usually just a whirlwind of rage on forums and such.

[Thraps]

Their community that just echoes what they hear from them to begin with which is exactly what happens.

Not saying people are not dissatisfied, as they have every right to be, but as you say it's not gospel. Just bugs me when people pretend it is and bring that shit to the attention of people like Brack as if it's somehow more important.

In most cases i do agree a lot do echo what they are saying its not always the case tho if you read there comments on there content.

[Raven]

Is Bellular even a game developer as in one of those that actually work on the game or is he just the one that started the company and others do the work ?

Havent watched him in years, stoppad when it started to feel like everything needed a clickbait titel and the only quality he cared about was the advertising segment, could have 15 min video with 1 min advertising and feelt like he spent more time on that 1 min then the 14 rest.

[Cazze]

Regarding the first highlighted part.

Naby, you have absolutely 0 idea how long it takes to make a game with a small team. You tell me to not be so fucking delusional, mate, you're the one acting completely delusional if you dont think that it takes years to make a game.

Games like battlefield have teams over 200-500 people and still take 2 years to make on average.

Red dead redemption 2 had more than 2000 people work on it at points and took 7 years

Bellular has like 10 fucking people. Do the math.

Why am I defending him, because I happen to be in a similar position as him. I worked in hollywood for the early part of my adult life then transitioned into video games. Im now running a startup studio. I agree with the vast majority of what he says about the WoW team. He might abuse the youtube algorithm and all that but hes a smart fucking guy clearly. And yeah, I see people shit on people trying to startup studios and all the rest and then get shit on by people who probably are just depressed and sick of their shit jobs, so they shit on people who they're jealous of, its fucking cringe.



Because someone who has run a small studio for 2 years has significantly more authority on how to run a game development project, even if it is scaled up by 30x, than some fucking jealous babies on forums who scream and cry about opinions and authority because THEY dont have any.



You've no fucking clue how much money ive made in my lifetime, I happened to make enough money in my early adult life to start a studio up to why dont you zip it before you look stupid. What sort of a fucking stupid personal attack are you trying to make. You saying there is no obvious terrible design when half the community is quitting over it is ridiculous. SL peaked sub numbers at al all time high, which puts it over 13m, and estimates are that its already sub 6 million. Tell me the dropoff isnt more than it historically should be.
and for every big mouth like you doing m+ there are MORE people who have quit the game since SL launched. Whats your point.

Oh shoot, mister big developer is here. You guys shut up, you have 0 clue about anything! Unlike this guy, who has worked in hollywood you see! Shut up plebians!