[Megathread] Star Citizen

[XDurionX]

Servers are capped at 50 players each. Server stability and performance worsens as the server ages, with ships, vehicles, elevators, NPCs, menus, weapon reloading - everything glitching out. Most servers crash by the 2 or 3 hour mark (called a 30k crash). Very, very rarely do servers last longer than 4 hours.

With only hundreds of millions of funding, it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to provide stable servers. Nobody has ever done something like this before.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

As for the WoW comparisons, I find it disingenous. I played on Moon Guard back during MoP and we had huge server organized events where you'd have at least 100, 200, sometimes more than 300 players show up. Server stability was never a problem; if your computer was stuttering it was that you didn't have enough powerful enough hardware to render everything. If you zoomed in your camera and aimed at the ground so that you only had like 50 guys on screen, you'd still get smooth 60 FPS and see that there was no lag (also if you moused over the game options menu to see your ping).

Here is a video of 1,000 to 2,000+ players in the same area at once in WoW Classic. The server didn't crash until they had at least 1,000-2,000 players in a single area.

[Katchii]

Servers are capped at 50 players each. Server stability and performance worsens as the server ages, with ships, vehicles, elevators, NPCs, menus, weapon reloading - everything glitching out. Most servers crash by the 2 or 3 hour mark (called a 30k crash). Very, very rarely do servers last longer than 4 hours.

Thank you for replying and providing a legit answer, but the question was largely rhetorical and aimed at kenn who seems to be implying that WoW isn't "doing it right" when the game they're shilling over is most definitely not doing it right....or at all.

[kenn9530]

snip

WoW has bad performance when a large group of ppl are actually doing something in one area and thats a fact, WoW is also not just 1 single server as its hundreds of servers so its nowhere near the same thing as currently in SC 1 single server is handling everything in that star system not just 1 planet, or one area the whole star system so each server is doing a ton more than what a single WoW server would ever handle.

SC doesnt crash because of the amount of players on a server, it eventually might crash because the server is doing the same work that normally 100 servers would split up the work for.

Current WoW is split up into layers and such so performance doesnt get effected as there is no content that requires large groups anyway. I didnt say it isnt possible to currently do but especially in WoW game performance is not great when loads of ppl are in one area and the same with any other game, having good performance and a large number of players in one area is probably the hardest thing to do in gaming.

You keep spinning this situation, where they changed the game they said they were going to make as a GOOD thing. It's not.

They told us what game they were going to make. They then had a crowdfunding campaign to make THAT game and met every single funding goal, meaning they received all the money they said they needed to make THAT game.

That is the game the community fully funded.

What you're telling me now is THAT game they committed to giving us through their crowdfunding campaign doesn't exist anymore. And you're saying that is a good thing. That's mind blowing.

The fact is they did change the game and never once stated they had all the funds they needed, the stretch goals were about making a larger game not about how much it would cost to make it, so much BS coming from your mouth.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

WoW has bad performance when a large group of ppl are actually doing something in one area and thats a fact, WoW is also not just 1 single server as its hundreds of servers so its nowhere near the same this as currently in SC 1 single server is handling everything in that star system not just 1 planet, or one area the whole star system so each server is doing a ton more than what a single WoW server would ever handle.

I'd argue that WoW servers have more stuff going on than a SC server. In a WoW server, you have hundreds of thousands of mobs and NPCs and and mining nodes and other stuff active across the entirety of Azeroth at once. Plus it's also tracking thousands of players and their inventories and quest progress and the auction house and guild info and a ton of other stuff.

Star Citizen servers have... 5 planets and 8 moons? In comparison to WoW, which has hundreds of thousands of mobs and NPCs active at once, in Star Citizen there are hardly any NPCs. There are no fauna or NPCs walking around in planets. There are hardly any NPC spaceships flying around. The only NPCs are a couple dozen NPCs walking around on a space station (there are like two dozen space stations in Star Citizen, so about maybe 500ish NPCs there), and the NPCs walking around the planetary cities (Hurston, ArcCorp, Microtech), so maybe that's another 500. And then you have the NPCs who man planetary outposts, so maybe that's another 100. And then MAYBE 100 NPC spaceships flying around the system total. There aren't really anymore than 1,000 NPCs active in the game at once across the entire star system (police, bounty targets, and bandits). Now, there are a lot of mining nodes across the star system - probably at least 500 to 1,000 per planet and moon - maybe 10,000+, but again, that utterly pales in comparison to the mining nodes active on a WoW server.

Don't mistake me: there is a LOT of stuff Star Citizen servers have to track, but the amount of stuff that WoW servers track in real time just absolutely dwarfs what the SC servers are tracking. And WoW servers are up 24/7 and only go down for patch days, and it can be weeks in between patch days. SC servers start falling apart 30 minutes after a fresh instance.

[banmebaby]

The world if every SC backer was like Val, Val you are the MvP of this thread, love you bro (even if you are a lalafell) #nohomo

[kenn9530]

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Nope a WoW server is hundreds or more servers all combined and splits the world/zones amongst the other servers so no server will be handling much more than a few zones at the same time, its exactly what SC will do at some point in the near future as they have said the stepping stone for server meshing will be splitting the system up so its not 1 server it could be 10 or 100 servers and as your travelling you will transfer into a different server automatically, that means the load is spread out between lots of servers.

In SC there is hundreds if not thousands of npcs that the server has to handle and they are not just some basic WoW npcs, most of the npcs in WoW dont do anything they are nothing more than a static object with some minor movement, the npcs in SC actually move around and interact with the world so its 100 times more complex than a WoW npc.

[Edge-]

Nope a WoW server is hundreds or more servers all combined and splits the world/zones amongst the other servers so no server will be handling much more than a few zones at the same time, its exactly what SC will do at some point in the near future as they have said the stepping stone for server meshing will be splitting the system up so its not 1 server it could be 10 or 100 servers and as your travelling you will transfer into a different server automatically, that means the load is spread out between lots of servers.

In SC there is hundreds if not thousands of npcs that the server has to handle and they are not just some basic WoW npcs, most of the npcs in WoW dont do anything they are nothing more than a static object with some minor movement, the npcs in SC actually move around and interact with the world so its 100 times more complex than a WoW npc.

So...WoW has the server meshing tech working, and has had it working for years and years, and CIG is still trying to reinvent that wheel?

[Katchii]

WoW has bad performance when a large group of ppl are actually doing something in one area and thats a fact, WoW is also not just 1 single server as its hundreds of servers so its nowhere near the same thing as currently in SC 1 single server is handling everything in that star system not just 1 planet, or one area the whole star system so each server is doing a ton more than what a single WoW server would ever handle.

SC doesnt crash because of the amount of players on a server, it eventually might crash because the server is doing the same work that normally 100 servers would split up the work for.

Current WoW is split up into layers and such so performance doesnt get effected as there is no content that requires large groups anyway. I didnt say it isnt possible to currently do but especially in WoW game performance is not great when loads of ppl are in one area and the same with any other game, having good performance and a large number of players in one area is probably the hardest thing to do in gaming.

Point is, WoW currently does what SC cannot: have a stable server that can support the player population. SC servers can't support more than 50 people, at ALL let alone all within the same area, and apparently don't even last more than 4 hours at a time.

What comparison is there to draw between SC and WoW here?

The fact is they did change the game and never once stated they had all the funds they needed, the stretch goals were about making a larger game not about how much it would cost to make it, so much BS coming from your mouth.

Yes, there is definitely someone spewing a lot of BS. It's not me.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

In SC there is hundreds if not thousands of npcs that the server has to handle and they are not just some basic WoW npcs, most of the npcs in WoW dont do anything they are nothing more than a static object with some minor movement, the npcs in SC actually move around and interact with the world so its 100 times more complex than a WoW npc.

SC NPCs aren't much different than WoW NPCs. Unless they are one of the handful of special NPC quest givers, most NPCs have very limited interactions. They either stand in place, or walk along their patrol path, just like a WoW NPC. If you walk up to their face, they will turn their head to stare at you, and if you click on them they will just spout a one liner. Just like a WoW NPC. There are armistice zones around each city and space station and outpost preventing you from whipping out a gun, so we have no idea if the NPCs are even programmed to react and run away if they hear gunfire or cower if you point a gun at their face. The most "complex" NPC behavior in the game ATM is just hostile bandits being taking cover behind a nearby object when you come try to kill them.

[Katchii]

So...WoW has the server meshing tech working, and has had it working for years and years, and CIG is still trying to reinvent that wheel?

That was my take as well.

[kenn9530]

So...WoW has the server meshing tech working, and has had it working for years and years, and CIG is still trying to reinvent that wheel?

No WoW has set servers to handle different parts of the game already inplace so when you cross a border you swap into another server, server meshing is where the game should automatically assign as many servers as needed depending on the load, so any areas that have no players wont waste server resources for the sake of it.

Current system many MMOs use means even areas with no players in it are always active and wasting resources, server meshing focuses the server resources where it is actually needed and expands the servers if required where the current WoW system would have to be done manually.

SC NPCs aren't much different than WoW NPCs. Unless they are one of the handful of special NPC quest givers, most NPCs have very limited interactions. They either stand in place, or walk along their patrol path, just like a WoW NPC. If you walk up to their face, they will turn their head to stare at you, and if you click on them they will just spout a one liner. Just like a WoW NPC. There are armistice zones around each city and space station and outpost preventing you from whipping out a gun, so we have no idea if the NPCs are even programmed to react and run away if they hear gunfire or cower if you point a gun at their face. The most "complex" NPC behavior in the game ATM is just hostile bandits being taking cover behind a nearby object when you come try to kill them.

The npcs in WoW are nothing like the ones in SC, having npcs walking around and actually interacting with the world is miles difference compared to the ones in WoW, in WoW they dont interect with the world at all as some just walk around and the rest dont do anything but stand there, the SC npcs are still far from being complete and are far superior than anything WoW has to offer.

That was my take as well.

Its just another one of those things you dont seem to understand, have you even read what CiG have said about server meshing or even have a basic understanding of what it should do.

[Thestrawman]

No WoW has set servers to handle different parts of the game already inplace so when you cross a border you swap into another server, server meshing is where the game should automatically assign as many servers as needed depending on the load, so any areas that have no players wont waste server resources for the sake of it.

Current system many MMOs use means even areas with no players in it are always active and wasting resources, server meshing focuses the server resources where it is actually needed and expands the servers if required where the current WoW system would have to be done manually.



The npcs in WoW are nothing like the ones in SC, having npcs walking around and actually interacting with the world is miles difference compared to the ones in WoW, in WoW they dont interect with the world at all as some just walk around and the rest dont do anything but stand there, the SC npcs are still far from being complete and are far superior than anything WoW has to offer.



Its just another one of those things you dont seem to understand, have you even read what CiG have said about server meshing or even have a basic understanding of what it should do.

It's amazing how you know server meshing works when it's not something that exists.

[Katchii]

No WoW has set servers to handle different parts of the game already inplace so when you cross a border you swap into another server, server meshing is where the game should automatically assign as many servers as needed depending on the load, so any areas that have no players wont waste server resources for the sake of it.

What your describing is exactly what WoW already does. it's called a "shard"

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sharding_(term)

Its just another one of those things you dont seem to understand, have you even read what CiG have said about server meshing or even have a basic understanding of what it should do.

You seem to be talking to yourself here. Are you OK?

[kenn9530]

What your describing is exactly what WoW already does. it's called a "shard"

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Sharding_(term)



You seem to be talking to yourself here. Are you OK?

And a shard only handles a small part of the game, where vaal was making it out that a single shard would do a ton more work than it actually does, but an SC server has to handle everything at the same time currently even though the systems to expand it are being developed you still complain about an occasional crash now and then without understanding there is a very good reason for it.

[Edge-]

And a shard only handles a small part of the game, where vaal was making it out that a single shard would do a ton more work than it actually does, but an SC server has to handle everything at the same time currently even though the systems to expand it are being developed you still complain about an occasional crash now and then without understanding there is a very good reason for it.

The shards are all part of a connected server network dude...they're handling everything at the same time while talking to each other.

Again, your description of server meshing is describing tech that's existed in WoW for years as if it's some brand-new thing that has never existed.

[Kyanion]

This is straight up, 100% incorrect and you've been corrected on this multiple times throughout the thread.

Then it would be trolling on his part, I'd assume?

[Beazy]

No WoW has set servers to handle different parts of the game already inplace so when you cross a border you swap into another server, server meshing is where the game should automatically assign as many servers as needed depending on the load, so any areas that have no players wont waste server resources for the sake of it.

LoL you know so little about actual software development you think loading and interacting with spatial data and data access layers have to be loaded with different servers, or a server cluster.

Thats not how it works. LOL its never been how it works. /facepapm

[kenn9530]

The shards are all part of a connected server network dude...they're handling everything at the same time while talking to each other.

Again, your description of server meshing is describing tech that's existed in WoW for years as if it's some brand-new thing that has never existed.

No they dont a shard would just handle everything in its area and just update the database as it goes along, a shard does not handle the whole world, all the mobs and npcs along with all the instances, a shard is connected but handles the load of its set area on its own.

WoW doesnt have server meshing, the servers dont mesh together and help each other they just focus on the job they are given. The whole point in server meshing is that it automatically dedicates as much server capacity as required to areas that need it, WoW doesnt do this. Server meshing also means areas that are not being used wont be loaded in for no reason and waste server resources.

The way they want servers to work in SC is the player is essentially a server point and it follows them around and adds more servers as needed, other player servers would merge and interact when close enough and then seperate at a certain distance but still being able to interact. If loads of players are in the same areas then it will be a large cluster of servers and not just 1 for everything.

[Kyanion]

Servers are capped at 50 players each. Server stability and performance worsens as the server ages, with ships, vehicles, elevators, NPCs, menus, weapon reloading - everything glitching out. Most servers crash by the 2 or 3 hour mark (called a 30k crash). Very, very rarely do servers last longer than 4 hours.

Right but what happens if everyone on the server tries to go to the same place? Does it instant crash? Horrible frame lag? What happens then? I mean it is funny the servers die in 2-4 hours like clockwork.