Russia threatening to invade Ukraine 2.0

[Ripster42]

We would have been by now, but we joined NATO just in time, while Russia was weak. Otherwise there would have been Narva and Latgale "republics" now, the moment we tried to change our course.

Just a reminder: Ukraine is eastern europe. The bullshit statement theo made is attempting to say that it's not. It's currently mid invasion after previously having part of its land annexed.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah booo US and NATO, how dare they move their defense closer to a crumbling and unstable nation, who wields the largest armory on earth and second largest nuclear arsenal. What an absolutely unmotivated and illogical thing to do, should have just planted roses in the ground and call it a day.

Seems antagonistic to continue hostilities against a country that actually gave up territory seemingly in good faith and without firing a single shot and then to go on and ACTUALLY overthrow their government in the 90s and install hostile weapons systems on their borders, Idk, that seems like a dick move to me.

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i mean he absolutely has. he talks about them in his speeches lol.

I'd like to see these speeches, until then, I'm not convinced. Heck a quick google search turns up a lot of American News papers, so this sounds like another spook thing.

I am curious about your opinions of the new CIA advertisement? Are you inspired?

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I know Theo has fallen so far down the well that literally everything is wrapped in conspiracy for her, but its still weird to see her defend Russia so fervently.

Conspiracy? How? Is this just the mandatory term you guys throw out when anyone says' anything you don't like?

[Howel]

Seems antagonistic to continue hostilities against a country that actually gave up territory seemingly in good faith and without firing a single shot and then to go on and ACTUALLY overthrow their government in the 90s and install hostile weapons systems on their borders, Idk, that seems like a dick move to me.

Yeah, victors tend to be allowed to be dicks. And also insure that it doesn't happen again, you know, like a certain Soviet Union did after winning a certain war; this is the reverse of that.

[Theodarzna]

Nordstream? I wonder what the future of it is. Europe is moving away from the Russian oil needle, there is no long term for it. And there is no one to replace Europe's ability to pay for gas.

Somehow you keep missing the part which says sovereign nations and their people have the right to choose. Baltics, Poland, they do not have to ask for any kind of permission what to do from Russia. Get that in your head, do not be Shalcker.

We would have been by now, but we joined NATO just in time, while Russia was weak. Otherwise there would have been Narva and Latgale "republics" now, the moment we tried to change our course.

Given they were uninvaded without firing a single shot, literally, Ummmm I am incredibly doubtful of this situation. And I'd say setting up their countries as staging grounds for invasion further East is itself a hostile provocation.

[Felya]

I am curious about your opinions of the new CIA advertisement? Are you inspired?

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand... If Putin claimed to be woke, then you would bitch about his KGB and FSB history? You fall for Russian propaganda, then link a cringe CIA recruitment video?

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Given they were uninvaded without firing a single shot, literally, Ummmm I am incredibly doubtful of this situation. And I'd say setting up their countries as staging grounds for invasion further East is itself a hostile provocation.

Yeah, they left after Biden issued sanctions on their oligarchs...

[Easo]

Given they were uninvaded without firing a single shot, literally, Ummmm I am incredibly doubtful of this situation. And I'd say setting up their countries as staging grounds for invasion further East is itself a hostile provocation.

What does "uninvaded" even mean? Setting up as staging grounds? Your imagining stuff does not make it real.

Not long-term solution for what exactly? It deals with Ukrainian problem quite nicely - once NS2 happens significant reason why they have to be considered "our problem" (or "EU problem") disappears.

And if gas will stop being needed decades later then we'll still have nuclear (and possibly fusion if that ever gets to point of commercial viability).

Europe is both moving away from Russia as supplier and towards renewables. Russia is still sitting on the oil needle money, tell me, where would that money come from once we have left? As I said, there is no one else to buy the Europe's share from you + world currently has overproduction of the stuff. You having nuclear stations does not change it.

[Shalcker]

Europe is both moving away from Russia as supplier and towards renewables.

That's decades-long process - in which gas is still best supplement for the moments when renewables see drop in production.

Russia is still sitting on the oil needle money, tell me, where would that money come from once we have left?

China mostly, probably Africa too - given that they still have growth potential.

Food production is growing rapidly, given climate change it'll likely become even more significant export article.

As I said, there is no one else to buy the Europe's share from you + world currently has overproduction of the stuff. You having nuclear stations does not change it.

Oil and gas aren't used only for energy too; some demand will always remain.

It isn't going to be catastrophe either way given that we consistently have trade surplus.

[Kellhound]

You talked about speeches specifically, those are easy to look up as each of them is there on Kremlin site, complete with english translations.

Just like US or UK, sure.

Where did you see it in Putin's speeches though?

What exactly do you see as "grand imperial aspirations"? As opposed to usual imperial aspirations.

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Not long-term solution for what exactly? It deals with Ukrainian problem quite nicely - once NS2 happens significant reason why they have to be considered "our problem" (or "EU problem") disappears.

And if gas will stop being needed decades later then we'll still have nuclear (and possibly fusion if that ever gets to point of commercial viability).

Ukraine will remain a Russian "problem" so long as it isn't under their heel.

The EU isn't going to invest in Russian nuclear power when it weans itself off Russian gas.

[Shalcker]

Ukraine will remain a Russian "problem" so long as it isn't under their heel.

And it is entirely possible to cut Ukraine away.

Perhaps even preferable.

As long as they are guaranteed not to join NATO.

The EU isn't going to invest in Russian nuclear power when it weans itself off Russian gas.

Why would we need EU investment in area we're perfectly capable developing on our own?

[Kellhound]

That's decades-long process - in which gas is still best supplement for the moments when renewables see drop in production.

China mostly, probably Africa too - given that they still have growth potential.

Food production is growing rapidly, given climate change it'll likely become even more significant export article.

Oil and gas aren't used only for energy too; some demand will always remain.

It isn't going to be catastrophe either way given that we consistently have trade surplus.

The EU has its own hydrocarbon resources, enough for when they kick the need to use it for most of their power.

Oh, it is going to be a catastrophe when the EU is no longer tied to you for hydrocarbons. Russia exists to supply other countries with raw materials, and little else. Once those materials are not needed, well, kiss your economy goodbye.

[Felya]

And it is entirely possible to cut Ukraine away.

Uhm... how does cutting away work, with stealing land?

[Kellhound]

And it is entirely possible to cut Ukraine away.

Perhaps even preferable.

As long as they are guaranteed not to join NATO.

Why would we need EU investment in area we're perfectly capable developing on our own?

Lol, Russia will never be able to give up Ukraine.

Because, you will need something to replace the lost revenue from oil...

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Uhm... how does cutting away work, with stealing land?

Yes. The only part of Ukraine Russia may not be interested in is the part they gave to Ukraine that used to belong to Poland.

[Shalcker]

The EU has its own hydrocarbon resources, enough for when they kick the need to use it for most of their power.

Dwindling resources, but sure, there are some still remaining.

Oh, it is going to be a catastrophe when the EU is no longer tied to you for hydrocarbons. Russia exists to supply other countries with raw materials, and little else. Once those materials are not needed, well, kiss your economy goodbye.

It isn't going to be catastrophe - especially since process is going to be quite gradual. Russia is still going to exist, and will likely remain in top 10.

Economy isn't decided by exports alone.

[Kellhound]

Dwindling resources, but sure, there are some still remaining.

It isn't going to be catastrophe. Russia is still going to exist, and will likely remain in top 10.

Economy isn't decided by exports alone.

They will have enough to not need Russia.

Yes, it will be catastrophic. Russia isn't in the top 10 as it is for GDP (nominal). Lose oil and gas exports and you are screwed.

[Shalcker]

Yes, it will be catastrophic. Russia isn't in the top 10 as it is for GDP (nominal). Lose oil and gas exports and you are screwed.

Keep dreaming.

[postman1782]

Keep dreaming.

Kellhound is probably right. But then again, you keep thinking you are right when you post.

[Theodarzna]

i mean he absolutely has. he talks about them in his speeches lol.

Hey, speaking of speeches, can we talk about the CIA’s former deputy chief of operations for Europe and Eurasia, Marc Polymeropolous, calling Bellingcats work and i quote “I don’t want to be too dramatic, but we love this.” while we wait for the grand Putin speech and plan to build a vast Empire. Care to comment on the how linking arms with Polymeropolous is some kind of Leftist struggle and Anti-Fascism, but uhhhh Not doing that is Third Positionist Fascism? I am very interested in this.

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Yeah, victors tend to be allowed to be dicks. And also insure that it doesn't happen again, you know, like a certain Soviet Union did after winning a certain war; this is the reverse of that.

So America screams out in pain even as it tries to murder you. And I am supposed to take America's side? Why? When its being evil I should cheer? And here I was told I was told being jingoists and xenophobes was bad by this forums illustrious commentators.

[Felya]

Hey, speaking of speeches, can we talk about the CIA’s former deputy chief of operations for Europe and Eurasia, Marc Polymeropolous, calling Bellingcats work and i quote “I don’t want to be too dramatic, but we love this.” while we wait for the grand Putin speech and plan to build a vast Empire.

How about instead, we talk about Russia moving troops to Ukraine border... since... you know... this is the topic...

Otherwise, want to talk about Reality Winner?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

Still in jail...

[Theodarzna]

What does "uninvaded" even mean? Setting up as staging grounds? Your imagining stuff does not make it real.

Well Russia pulled out of the entire Warsaw pact, without demanding a war to do it. As for setting up staging ground, how else should Russia interpret hostile actions and weapons systems of a country that constantly calls for their destruction on their border?

[Felya]

Well Russia pulled out of the entire Warsaw pact, without demanding a war to do it. As for setting up staging ground, how else should Russia interpret hostile actions and weapons systems of a country that constantly calls for their destruction on their border?

By sending all the dissidents to Siberia or murdering them? Is this a denial of Russian atrocities?