Is The Weight Tanks Hold in M+ Good Design?

[Wuusah]

The point is that the tank role requires an amount of study behind that should not be necessary in a game. That’s why there are no more tanks around.

is that really a problem, though?

Sry, but everyone and their grandma can go into a normal dungeon. Everyone can go into a heroic dungeon. Everyone can go into M0. Everyone can go into +2, +3, etc. The higher you go, the more you have to know your stuff. For tank this means "know the route" but it's not something that you have to suddenly learn. Your route is completely irrelevant in lower keys. Most of the pug M+ runs on fresh alts are with new tanks who try to do normal/heroic/m0 skips in all kinds of places until you remind them a mob count exists. In the worst case you have to backtrack, kill some more mobs and still +2 finish the dungeon. But the more you go up the ladder, the more you are supposed to have learned some stuff and read up on stuff. That's not just the case for tank. I can go into a M+2 and just press random buttons with my shadow priest. And it will be fine. If I'm pressing random buttons in +10 or higher, my dps will be abysmal and the run will suffer from that. How do I learn to press the right buttons? Not from just queuing into a dungeon and pressing random buttons. You learn it by reading guides, watching videos, asking questions. This idea that you should be able to just queue up and do well with no idea about anything only works in low difficulty content. If knowledge about your class, role and the content you are doing is deterring you from playing that role, then that just means you are bad at the game. Tanks who are overwhelmed with M+ are the kind of tanks who are used to getting their best gear from doing heroic dungeons back in the days and being that passive meatshield in raids that taunts once every half a minute. In other words: bad players.

Tanks always kinda fell under the radar when it comes to how good someone is. As long as they don't die, they are good enough has been the mantra for many, many years. That lead to tank players being complacent in their mediocrity. DPS players had to always push themselves. Always optimize and squeeze the most out of your class. And for tanks it was always "good enough". M+ opened a way for tanks to challenge themselves and prove themselves. But it also shows to bad tanks that they are bad. Let's be honest here. It doesn't take a lot of time to look up an M+ guide and a route for each dungeon. People for whom that is too much effort just suck at the game.

All the people here in the comments who complain about how tanking is now in M+, they are bad at the game. Tanking isn't hard. In fact, playing a dps is way harder than playing tank. But being a bad dps isn't as punishing as being a bad tank in M+. That's why people complain. Because they are bad.

[Sunderella]

Yes, too much pressure for tanks. I used to like tanking with an alt before M+ was a thing but since legion I stopped playing tanks altogether because is to much responsibility for me. You pull to fast? Your are monster. You pull to slow? You are bad. You a single extra mob that is not supposed to be pulled? You are worse than hitler.

The thing is, as tank, you have to memorize routes for each dungeon, often different routes for Tyrannical and Fortified. You have to also play mathematical gymnastics to compensate for extra mobs if someone aggros something that wasn't intended, adapt to how your dps are playing (not kicking, stunning, dispelling etc) etc. At some point it stops feeling fun and becomes plain anxiety.

As a rogue is much more enjoyable to just follow the tank and make sure I don't die, do not aggro extra stuff and do mechanics (not only boss stuff but interrupts, stuns, dispels, positioning etc) correctly.

[Delever]

is that really a problem, though?

Sry, but everyone and their grandma can go into a normal dungeon. Everyone can go into a heroic dungeon. Everyone can go into M0. Everyone can go into +2, +3, etc. The higher you go, the more you have to know your stuff. For tank this means "know the route" but it's not something that you have to suddenly learn. Your route is completely irrelevant in lower keys. Most of the pug M+ runs on fresh alts are with new tanks who try to do normal/heroic/m0 skips in all kinds of places until you remind them a mob count exists. In the worst case you have to backtrack, kill some more mobs and still +2 finish the dungeon. But the more you go up the ladder, the more you are supposed to have learned some stuff and read up on stuff. That's not just the case for tank. I can go into a M+2 and just press random buttons with my shadow priest. And it will be fine. If I'm pressing random buttons in +10 or higher, my dps will be abysmal and the run will suffer from that. How do I learn to press the right buttons? Not from just queuing into a dungeon and pressing random buttons. You learn it by reading guides, watching videos, asking questions. This idea that you should be able to just queue up and do well with no idea about anything only works in low difficulty content. If knowledge about your class, role and the content you are doing is deterring you from playing that role, then that just means you are bad at the game. Tanks who are overwhelmed with M+ are the kind of tanks who are used to getting their best gear from doing heroic dungeons back in the days and being that passive meatshield in raids that taunts once every half a minute. In other words: bad players.

Tanks always kinda fell under the radar when it comes to how good someone is. As long as they don't die, they are good enough has been the mantra for many, many years. That lead to tank players being complacent in their mediocrity. DPS players had to always push themselves. Always optimize and squeeze the most out of your class. And for tanks it was always "good enough". M+ opened a way for tanks to challenge themselves and prove themselves. But it also shows to bad tanks that they are bad. Let's be honest here. It doesn't take a lot of time to look up an M+ guide and a route for each dungeon. People for whom that is too much effort just suck at the game.

All the people here in the comments who complain about how tanking is now in M+, they are bad at the game. Tanking isn't hard. In fact, playing a dps is way harder than playing tank. But being a bad dps isn't as punishing as being a bad tank in M+. That's why people complain. Because they are bad.

This isnt about the amount of effort. Its that small normal mistakes that can happen from time to time end up permanently fucking up a run. Like trying to do a skip and pulling for example. Or pulling 1-2 extra patrolling mobs. In the past this would mean that a good tank/group could adjust to the extra mobs and face a bigger challenge but overcome it.
In the current scenario it means your prideful is scuffed and if its a relatively high key on a tyranical week.... well you re in for a fun run.

Also tank dps has been a thing 3 expansions now. You dont just get by "staying alive" anymore.

[mojusk]

It is a team effort but yea tanks is prolly the biggest factor. Thats how its always been. It May not be ideal but I think its impossible to change it. It would take a complete redesign of how wow works

[Bagrod]

Every single thing a DPS does, the tank has todo on top of everything else regarding the tank role.
I challenge you and everyone in this thread, name something unique only a dps does, that a tank also does not do.

e.g. supporting the Tank with the right skills for tanking / kiting.

Especially as a Prot Warrior this is particular important to me. It is crucial that the DPS know and ideally orchestrate their abilities like Ring of Peace, Stun Totem, Frost Nova etc. to help me kiting / avoid dangerous situations.

DPS must, to the same extent as the tank know the route in a sense, that they dont need to run it, but they need to know the big / important pulls per week, so that they can time their CDs accordingly. TBH a Tank also needs that, but route knowledge then is also not only limited to tanks, but DPS need to know them as well.

There is nothing in particular what a tank cannot do, but it is not rocket science compared to small town tinkering. At least that is the picture some people are painting here.

[Malania]

Every single thing a DPS does, the tank has todo on top of everything else regarding the tank role.
I challenge you and everyone in this thread, name something unique only a dps does, that a tank also does not do.

DPS's the target. The tank, tanks it. You're offering additional damage but you aren't the damage dealer as the tank... I would think that would be kind of obvious?

[T-34]

No timer, as dealing with the randomly generated combination of mechanics will be complex enough. This means that the whole group will have to communicate and deal with everything together, instead of relying on the tank to figure everything else, because "gogogo no time push"

A competitive factor could be adding more layers of mechanics.. so maybe a +1 adds one mechanic, +2 adds 2 mechanics, +3,+4+,5+6 etc.. as far as you think your team can handle. You do know the mechanics, but the one´s you´ll deal with will be randomly combined.

1) All human competitive activities have a time-factor involved. All sports have it, both physical as well as mental. M+ is designed as a competitive element within the framework of WoW. Removing the timer would remove the competitive aspect. That might not be "RPG", but that is the way Blizzard wants it, because Blizzard wants M+ to be competitive.

And let me remind all that even "non-timed" content in WoW, such as dungeons and raids, have a time-aspect involved, and that is called enrage.
Without a timer people would just stack tanks and healers and grind stuff down. No competition in that.
If you would remove the timer the content wouldn't get harder, it would get much easier and more slow and boring.

2)
Excessive random outside elements, that differ from group to group, would also make the competitive aspect of M+ moot:
In order to compare yourself to your peers you need to have the same, or very equal, rules/conditions when you participate.

Therefore M+ are heavily scripted so you can compare your time with the time of another group. By introducing random elements would remove the second aspect of competitions: Comparability and equality.
The same goes for raids, where different people in the raid can be targetted by abilities, but the abilities themselves are always the same.

M+ is specifically designed by Blizzard to cater to competitive part of the player-base. And just to make my point once again then Blizzard has decided to "bake in" the raider.io-system within the game instead of removing what makes M+ competitive.

[Wuusah]

This isnt about the amount of effort. Its that small normal mistakes that can happen from time to time end up permanently fucking up a run. Like trying to do a skip and pulling for example. Or pulling 1-2 extra patrolling mobs. In the past this would mean that a good tank/group could adjust to the extra mobs and face a bigger challenge but overcome it.
In the current scenario it means your prideful is scuffed and if its a relatively high key on a tyranical week.... well you re in for a fun run.

Also tank dps has been a thing 3 expansions now. You dont just get by "staying alive" anymore.

A scuffed pride because of butt pulls is not the responsibility of the tank. In some, more open dungeons you can salvage the run. In most dungeons you cannot do that because they are more linear and you are usually too close to a boss to alter the route.

Yes, tank dps has been a thing for 3 expansions now. Guess for how many expansions M+ is a thing?

[msdos]

All the people here in the comments who complain about how tanking is now in M+, they are bad at the game. Tanking isn't hard. In fact, playing a dps is way harder than playing tank. But being a bad dps isn't as punishing as being a bad tank in M+. That's why people complain. Because they are bad.

Until we know what your definition of a bad tank is, your entire post doesn't mean anything. If a tank has been running keys up to +20 in Legion, +15 in BFA and then quits in Shadowlands because he doesn't WANT to do extra garbage just to play (key word here is want, not can, notice the difference), that doesn't make them bad, that just makes tanking frustrating.

Why does anyone want to regress in how much satisfaction they get in a video game? You're basically just repeating what Limit Max said about tanks getting complacent, but that's complete and utter conjecture coming from someone who plays WoW inside of a bubble.
I tanked on BDK since Cata, pre nerf dungeons. I didn't all of a sudden start hating dungeons and tanking (I didn't get worse either, I actually progressed into Mythic raid). What I hate is the culture around M+, the addons, the meta and especially the people who respond to you when you voice how frustrating it is.
Nothing in the game is hard, this isn't the point, it's what's frustrating.

So learn to read, learn to comprehend people's gripes, learn how to form readable paragraphs, etc, etc.

[Wuusah]

Until we know what your definition of a bad tank is, your entire post doesn't mean anything. If a tank has been running keys up to +20 in Legion, +15 in BFA and then quits in Shadowlands because he doesn't WANT to do extra garbage just to play (key word here is want, not can, notice the difference), that doesn't make them bad, that just makes tanking frustrating.

If you don't put in the effort to be good, then you won't be good. A tank who did those keys in previous expansions has been decent if not good in previous expansions. Has been. That player is not good anymore if that player couldn't be bothered to learn. That's what being good is. Knowledge and the ability to use that knowledge. Skill alone doesn't make you good.

You're basically just repeating what Limit Max said about tanks getting complacent, but that's complete and utter conjecture coming from someone who plays WoW inside of a bubble.

What Max said wasn't something from inside a bubble. It is something that you can see in almost every single guild. He didn't just say some secret information. What he said has been said for many years and something I said for many years. I'm not just repeating what some other guy says.

I tanked on BDK since Cata, pre nerf dungeons. I didn't all of a sudden start hating dungeons and tanking. What I hate is the culture around M+, the addons, the meta and especially the people who respond to you when you voice how frustrating it is.
Nothing in the game is hard, this isn't the point, it's what's frustrating.

I tanked in wotlk and cata. Dungeons back then were a fucking joke. Even pre-nerf cata dungeons were an absolute joke compared to M+. I tanked them easily and I was a fucking horrible moron of a tank who just spammed his buttons. Because it was good enough. Now a tank has to do a bit more than spam his buttons. How frustrating, right?

edit: the only reason why pre-nerf cata dungeons are remembered as difficult is because people went in via the LFG tool and were matched with braindead players who didn't know nothing about anything.

[Mystikal]

so you just screwed teeming weeks up? you ran into packs that you might as well skip because it's too much effort to kill them? you ran into the hard emissaries?

It never stopped me timing my keys, so I wouldn't say I 'screwed up', just that the affixes were a little more forgiving. It's not on a knife-edge as it is currently.

[Mystikal]

Well, for the Myriad of Routes: There is an addon that helps with it. And to be honest, if you dont play MDI, you do not need to adapt 90% of the route every week. Sometimes there are slight changes, but the majority of the routes stays quite stable (at least from my perspective as a tank).



I just ran some lower M+ already with the "right" routs to get used to certain standars (e.g. do some more trash before you move on to Hakkar in DOS) and then stepped first foot into +10s and announced that I am not used to all routes perfectly, and that was fine for basically every single gorup I joined / created.

I know that there is an addon for it, but it's yet another addon that has to be installed, kept updated and studied each week for the affixes. If I dps or heal, I sign up to the group and do my job, and that's it. It's just another hassle on top of something that is supposed to be fun, but when tanking it just feels like a chore. As I've replied before, my two routes per dungeon worked perfectly fine in BfA, so it would be nice if the dungeons and timers could be balanced in a similar way again. It doesn't stop other people from finding and user faster and better routes, but it would be nice to only need to know the two routes (seasonal & non-seasonal) again.

Regarding not changing a route... not sure I agree. For each dungeon, some weeks you need your invis skip, some you don't, sometimes you need Pride on the boss, sometimes you need it on trash. Basically, realistically, means that you need 3 different routes for each dungeon. It's a lot of extra work that only the tank has to do.

- - - Updated - - -

if you just ran with your normal route you screwed the keys up unless you pulled far more than you have to do if that same route worked on teeming weeks... which would still be screwing keys up...

We obviously have different definitions of 'screwing up'. For me, getting the dungeon completed within the time limit does NOT count as 'screwing up'. As I said, it didn't stop me from managing to time dungeons, so I'm not going to lose any sleep if there's a better route.

I guess your definition means doing things perfectly, but for me, it means getting it done successfully.

[chiddie]

is that really a problem, though?

Sry, but everyone and their grandma can go into a normal dungeon. Everyone can go into a heroic dungeon. Everyone can go into M0. Everyone can go into +2, +3, etc. The higher you go, the more you have to know your stuff. For tank this means "know the route" but it's not something that you have to suddenly learn. Your route is completely irrelevant in lower keys. Most of the pug M+ runs on fresh alts are with new tanks who try to do normal/heroic/m0 skips in all kinds of places until you remind them a mob count exists. In the worst case you have to backtrack, kill some more mobs and still +2 finish the dungeon. But the more you go up the ladder, the more you are supposed to have learned some stuff and read up on stuff. That's not just the case for tank. I can go into a M+2 and just press random buttons with my shadow priest. And it will be fine. If I'm pressing random buttons in +10 or higher, my dps will be abysmal and the run will suffer from that. How do I learn to press the right buttons? Not from just queuing into a dungeon and pressing random buttons. You learn it by reading guides, watching videos, asking questions. This idea that you should be able to just queue up and do well with no idea about anything only works in low difficulty content. If knowledge about your class, role and the content you are doing is deterring you from playing that role, then that just means you are bad at the game. Tanks who are overwhelmed with M+ are the kind of tanks who are used to getting their best gear from doing heroic dungeons back in the days and being that passive meatshield in raids that taunts once every half a minute. In other words: bad players.

Tanks always kinda fell under the radar when it comes to how good someone is. As long as they don't die, they are good enough has been the mantra for many, many years. That lead to tank players being complacent in their mediocrity. DPS players had to always push themselves. Always optimize and squeeze the most out of your class. And for tanks it was always "good enough". M+ opened a way for tanks to challenge themselves and prove themselves. But it also shows to bad tanks that they are bad. Let's be honest here. It doesn't take a lot of time to look up an M+ guide and a route for each dungeon. People for whom that is too much effort just suck at the game.

All the people here in the comments who complain about how tanking is now in M+, they are bad at the game. Tanking isn't hard. In fact, playing a dps is way harder than playing tank. But being a bad dps isn't as punishing as being a bad tank in M+. That's why people complain. Because they are bad.

Considering how few tanks there are in game, yes, it is probably and really a problem.

I tanked for a good part of BfA before switching to healing due to tanking being so stressful, I know it is.

I don’t wanna watch hours of videos and read tons of guides and practice all the routes for every difficulty level and/or affixes and/or party composition. I just want to plug and play. That’s what games are meant for.

I agree being a good dps is really difficult, though (especially melee these days) but it does not require the amount of side study of a tank, imho.

[Bagrod]

I know that there is an addon for it, but it's yet another addon that has to be installed, kept updated and studied each week for the affixes. If I dps or heal, I sign up to the group and do my job, and that's it. It's just another hassle on top of something that is supposed to be fun, but when tanking it just feels like a chore. As I've replied before, my two routes per dungeon worked perfectly fine in BfA, so it would be nice if the dungeons and timers could be balanced in a similar way again. It doesn't stop other people from finding and user faster and better routes, but it would be nice to only need to know the two routes (seasonal & non-seasonal) again.

Regarding not changing a route... not sure I agree. For each dungeon, some weeks you need your invis skip, some you don't, sometimes you need Pride on the boss, sometimes you need it on trash. Basically, realistically, means that you need 3 different routes for each dungeon. It's a lot of extra work that only the tank has to do.

I'd say I basically agree with you.

BFA was a lot nicer regarding the routes, since it was a lot more straight forward. But as I said earlier, it is a general problem with the state of the game, that I often cannot make an informed decision in this game without going to some external websites. I think the pinnacle of this development was BFA with the Azerite powers, where you had to sim tons of different combinations of different traits to see which combo is the best. Of your "had to" is mabye an exaggeration, because as an aveerage Joe (which I would describe myself as) that played around +10s mostly during BFA, there was no real need for that to progress.

But since there is this addon, I really do not need to memorize all the routes. I just import the respective route, have a look at it and follow it. I do not need to sit there and memorize it like vocabulary for a new language.

Basically, realistically, means that you need 3 different routes for each dungeon. It's a lot of extra work that only the tank has to do.

True, I did not take into consideration the Skip routes, because I mainly run PUGs and i do not trust PUGs with Skips.

I agree it is a bit of extra work, and it is definitely more then in BFA, but at least for me, that is not the reason that being a tank feels so annoying sometimes. That is mainly due to DPS players that only DPS and do nothing else. Because for me that creates a lot more headaches, then me following a mapped out path in the addon.

[chiddie]

But % and the timer impacts the group as a whole. It's the playerbase having much higher expectations of tanks and healers vs dps that makes it particularly stressful for them.

Tanks have always been short in numbers and something most people don't want to do, long before M+.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying M+ needs to stay the way it is - I like M+ but I've always disliked the timer aspect for sure. I'm just saying that how stressful tanking is is not just a consequence of design, but also in big part because of player expectation.

The expectation is high because you have to do % and beat the timer. Apart from dungeons that are flat and require certain pulls whatever the difficulty, if you run normal/heroic dungeons you can see that often routes and skips can be different, because, well, it’s not important.

You skip a pack? Gg. You accidentally pull a pack? Gg. You don’t have to calculate everything perfectly on order for that 0,2% trash to pop Pride at the right moment. You can take it easier. It will be tough as well, just less stressful.

- - - Updated - - -

there aren't few tanks in the game... there's few tanks who want to play with pugs...

That’s the same thing since 90% of playerbase is pugging. It would be the same if the issue was with dps or healers instead with tanks.

[Mystikal]

I'd say I basically agree with you.

BFA was a lot nicer regarding the routes, since it was a lot more straight forward. But as I said earlier, it is a general problem with the state of the game, that I often cannot make an informed decision in this game without going to some external websites. I think the pinnacle of this development was BFA with the Azerite powers, where you had to sim tons of different combinations of different traits to see which combo is the best. Of your "had to" is mabye an exaggeration, because as an aveerage Joe (which I would describe myself as) that played around +10s mostly during BFA, there was no real need for that to progress.

But since there is this addon, I really do not need to memorize all the routes. I just import the respective route, have a look at it and follow it. I do not need to sit there and memorize it like vocabulary for a new language.



True, I did not take into consideration the Skip routes, because I mainly run PUGs and i do not trust PUGs with Skips.

I agree it is a bit of extra work, and it is definitely more then in BFA, but at least for me, that is not the reason that being a tank feels so annoying sometimes. That is mainly due to DPS players that only DPS and do nothing else. Because for me that creates a lot more headaches, then me following a mapped out path in the addon.

I'm definitely an average joe these days as well. I did mythic raiding (or whatever the equivalent was) for nearly 11 years up to BRF. Up until then, my life was different and I could afford to devote chunks of downtime to reading up endlessly and practising in-game. Nowadays, I have a job that is so exhausting and demanding (and these days, dangerous) that I prefer to spend my downtime having fun.

However, I switched to tank in BfA because my guild had a shortage of them and, honestly, I quite like where Guardian is now. Unfortunately, BfA set a precedent for me where there would be only a minimal amount of 'homework' when it came to M+, a precedent which SL has not followed. I need to get my keys done to keep up as best as possible with my guild, since my working days don't always allow me to raid with them, but that also leaves me having to PuG M+ a lot of the time, and your group WILL bail on you the second it looks like your route isn't perfect.

Not sure if it was you that asked earlier on in the thread how I would solve it, but Star Trek: Online used to have a pretty elegant solution (back when it still had proper timed content, that is). Thank you for your opinions, though; it's nice to have a discussion rather than a slanging match, for once.

[Wuusah]

Considering how few tanks there are in game, yes, it is probably and really a problem.

I tanked for a good part of BfA before switching to healing due to tanking being so stressful, I know it is.

I don’t wanna watch hours of videos and read tons of guides and practice all the routes for every difficulty level and/or affixes and/or party composition. I just want to plug and play. That’s what games are meant for.

And you can do that. Just not at the higher level of gameplay. And that's something that has always been the case. In all games. Ever. The problem is that people with a mentality like yours want to do their +14s and +15s.

I agree being a good dps is really difficult, though (especially melee these days) but it does not require the amount of side study of a tank, imho.

Being good at the dps role requires way more experience in the dungeon and with your class. Yes, tank requires more "reading up stuff" than dps but tank also requires way less in its rotation and cooldown usage to be halfway decent at tanking. Which is evident when you look at many raid tanks who don't like M+. Their tanking is awful. Their cooldown usage is awful. Their dps is awful. But you can still beat bosses (up to a point) with that performance, so most of the time nobody will say anything about their awful performance, because hey boss is killed, right?
And like I said before, dps sit in the queue for half an hour or longer and tanks get instant invites. That time that tanks save, they should put into reading up some stuff. And it's the same for healers. The problem is simply that people want to do 14s and 15s while doing the bare minimum. Yes, you have to read up a guide outside of the game. That has always been the case. And if you didn't do that in previous expansions then you sucked at the game in previous expansions.

[Bagrod]

I'm definitely an average joe these days as well. I did mythic raiding (or whatever the equivalent was) for nearly 11 years up to BRF. Up until then, my life was different and I could afford to devote chunks of downtime to reading up endlessly and practising in-game. Nowadays, I have a job that is so exhausting and demanding (and these days, dangerous) that I prefer to spend my downtime having fun.

Totally understandable.

And to be honest, ever since my 2 buddies quit SL, I also switched to my Shaman for some quick M+ runs. After all, it is a bit more relaxed, but I think that is mainly because my fun is not dependend on the other DPS.

Maybe this is the reason why tanking feels so hard. If you run in a premade grp with friends, I do not feel more or less stressed if I am a Tank or a DPS. If everyone knows what they are doing, everything is cool. As soon as I join a PUG as a tank however, there is definitely a higher stress level involved. Also because everybody knows best because for sure they somewhere all play a KSM Tank as a twink

However, I would still blame the bad DPS for it, more then the state of tanking. Although, it has been better, especially from a Prot Warri perspective

[erifwodahs]

DPS's the target. The tank, tanks it. You're offering additional damage but you aren't the damage dealer as the tank... I would think that would be kind of obvious?

Lol, tank does that too. As a paladin tank I heal prides, I use my offensive CD to do more dmg to the prides or push bosses. It's not complex rotation or anything, but if you "only tank" you are not a good tank.
I also purge poisons and diseases, use my external CD or BoP/Spellwarding on tyranical bosses.

[Bagrod]

Lol, tank does that too. As a paladin tank I heal prides, I use my offensive CD to do more dmg to the prides or push bosses. It's not complex rotation or anything, but if you "only tank" you are not a good tank.
I also purge poisons and diseases, use my external CD or BoP/Spellwarding on tyranical bosses.

Yeah, but that is the same as a DPS isnt it?

Of course only if your class can do it.

As an elemental Shami I purge, I dispell (if I can), I stun, I slow, I use my Elemental and if it becomes really close I can also throw a heal now and then and I do that. Ofc, if I need to support with heal something has gone bad.

So DPS are as well doing a lot more then "just" DPS the target. The problem with the average DPS player is, they feel different about that


With my Prot Warri however, I Shout and I smash. Thats basically it.

Maybe sometimes I jumpf and I stun, but that is not regularly what I am doing.