Poll: Do you think Garrosh would have actually burned down Teldrassil?

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Doesn't really matter much. The writing team just likes to asspull all sort of weird shit for plot. Realistic justifications be damned... Like everyone points out Garrosh bombed Theremore while everyone kind of ignores that basically all the Alliance pressence in Durotar, the Barrens (northern border aside), and stone talon are all reinforced and supported by Theremore.

    torching Teldrassil in BFA was just there to drum up interest and generate shock value and the views/ideals/characteristics of whoever was in charge at that point in the story would be irrelevant or made invalid with later retcon... er i mean "lore revelations"
    I feel like blizz tried really hard to just sweep the Cata theramore stuff under the rug after 4.0. Like they needed it to not have all the Kalimdor horde vs alliance stuff be horde aggression but didn't want to actually write Jaina going on the offensive or address the issue at all and just quietly hope people would forget if they didn't bring it up themselves.

  2. #62
    They are pretty much the same. Difference is Sylvanas's shitty reasoning makes me hate her more, even though I hated her enough already after Teldrassil.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    I feel like blizz tried really hard to just sweep the Cata theramore stuff under the rug after 4.0. Like they needed it to not have all the Kalimdor horde vs alliance stuff be horde aggression but didn't want to actually write Jaina going on the offensive or address the issue at all and just quietly hope people would forget if they didn't bring it up themselves.
    I think they ran out of time and just said fuck it to a lot of storylines. There was more than a handful of cut content... Like the one time Baine stood up to fight back against the Alliance directly (why the alliance didn't get fully into Mulgore and were held at the great gate).

    Basically every single time they try focusing on Faction War concepts they fall on their asses because they hamstring the story or drop it into limbo till a major patch. Can't properly set up dominos to fall in a good pattern when you grand stand every major arc while saying the dominos can't fall at all how we think they will.

  4. #64
    While he wasn't above razing a city to the ground,he seemed to care more about winning the war than he cared about doing an edgy asspull move for no reason whatsoever.

    Maybe he'd have done it after winning the war (if he did),but doing it when Sylvanas did was a senseless thing that served no purpose whatsoever from a strategic sense. But even then he'd probably occupy and harvest it,after wiping out the nelves

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Why do people keep bringing this up when it’s intact not true. “Honorable Garrosh in Cataclysm” was one quest chain in stonetalon. The rest of Cataclysm he was still a bloodthirsty conqueror who’s goal was ‘all will serve the horde of be hurried beneath it’.
    Well, there's also the novel (Shattering) in which Garrosh behaves in an overall decent manner. But even if you removed the Stonetalon quest, I think there's a clear difference between Garrosh in Cata and in MoP, the former not really behaving like a completly unreasonable tyrant. Cata Garrosh was more of the OG Lok'Tar Ogar, MoP was a crazed cartoon villain.

  6. #66
    He would have cut it down eventually, using night elves as slaves working them to death.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I think they ran out of time and just said fuck it to a lot of storylines. There was more than a handful of cut content... Like the one time Baine stood up to fight back against the Alliance directly (why the alliance didn't get fully into Mulgore and were held at the great gate).

    Basically every single time they try focusing on Faction War concepts they fall on their asses because they hamstring the story or drop it into limbo till a major patch. Can't properly set up dominos to fall in a good pattern when you grand stand every major arc while saying the dominos can't fall at all how we think they will.
    Amen!

    Unfortunately Blizz needs clear villians, which doomed the story of both faction wars pretty much from the start. It would have been better if they had given him a clear reason(Alliance denying Horde vital resources) or Sylvanas at least a nice pretext(Gilneas and Stromgarde moving into Lordaeron). My mind-canon is that he turned from lethargic(BC) to young hothead(WoLK) to more or less competent military leader(Cata) to war hungry maniac(MoP) who at least in the end was influenced by an Old God to level headed revenge-seeker(WoD) ... I guess with the exception of the version at the end of MoP he wouldn't burn Teldrassil, if he would have been able to make a rational decision. But in the end Blizz would have gone with whatever they saw fit to lead the story into the direction they wanted.

    By the way: Does anyone know if he "survives" the encounter in SoD? Another former Warchief seemingly doesn't, but he is at least hinted to have a happy end.

  8. #68
    of course he would have, and I would have cheered for it then as I did when Sylvanis did it.

  9. #69
    So you want to disregard the entire vision of stormwind and lines like "mountains of skulls and rivers of blood?"

  10. #70
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Garrosh was by far worse. He willingly nuked Theramore with as many leaders as he could manage and he was always ready to kill and destroy. His nut sized brain tho wasn´t enough to thinking about burning the tree.

  11. #71
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Do you personally think that if he had conquered Ashenvale, Garrosh as Warchief have burned down Teldrassil? Like Sylvanas did?

    I think, even to this end - Garrosh had some definite sense of honor and dignity. He didn't hurt Anduin, for example, after he found out Anduin had spared his life during his trial - and he could have easily maimed him. He might have been willing to kill others - but if the Iron Horde won, I'm not sure he would really try to exterminate the other races, unless he was seriously corrupted somehow.

    I think he COULD have burned Teldrassil - in a very fit of passion and rage, and perhaps if he felt it was a choice between his people's continued survival and existence and that of his enemies. But I don't think he'd be happy about it. Or celebrate it. Perhaps he would act happy at first - but eventually, not immediately, he would felt definite unease and guilt at his actions, perhaps months or years after Teldrassil was destroyed, and he might hide it, but it would slowly and surely gnaw away at him from the inside out. He acts tough and brutal - but he is not without conscience. We know that some night elf civilians were slaughtered - the short stories tell us that, and some NPCs like Leyara lost their family members to the Ashenvale invasion - but I don't think Garrosh necessarily targeted them specifically, they were most likely "collateral damage", perhaps slain in the bloodlust of the initial attacks.



    And perhaps people forget - the bombing of Thal'darah Grove, which killed a bunch of innocent children, was not sanctioned by Garrosh. He actually killed the orc who was responsible. "Honor...no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." He kidnapped magnateur children - but he did not torture them, and though they were killed anyway in Kalimdor, we're not sure whether it was Garrosh's mistake - perhaps he was not aware of the dangers, or perhaps he believed they could defend themselves.

    Do you remember why Cairne died? Because he thought Garrosh had supposedly attacked a group of night elf and tauren druids in Ashenvale - but the reality was, he hadn't - most of the Horde thought he did. But he refused to do that. That was not his way of fighting, nor his way of honor.

    Indeed, he was pleased at Theramore - but most of the military deaths were overwhelmingly military, and we are not sure whether he was aware most of the civilians were evacuated. I personally think he was an incredibly complicated - and deeply wounded - character who had considerable development, both positive and not that positive, and lots of wasted potential to his end.
    Depends on what version we talk about?

    Wrath? No
    Cata? Maybe
    MoP? Likely
    WoD? Yes
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunderella View Post
    The Iron Horde was centuries ahead of their time, that is true, but mostly because of their use of iron and explosive stuff. Otherwise, they would have called themselves The Wood Horde. And no, I'm not trying to be funny (unlike in my previous comment). Wood would have been a resource yeah, but just look at the Iron Horde stuff: mostly iron, explosives and metal. They even had their own fully fledged foundry for mass producing weapons.

    Wood is there yeah, but they had no advanced applications for it. The rebuilt Orgrimmar in CATA had metal as a more prominent feature than wood. In fact, I would say that even stone was more important for the Horde than wood. Sure Troll and Tauren architectures are just wooden huts, but Orc stuff has been made mostly from stone and metal for a while now. For any wood needs, Azshara and Ashenvale would provide wood in a more convenient way.
    Wood can be useful for a lot of things. Hell, the Iron Horde was literally causing deforestation and whatnot across Shadowmoon and Talador. Still though, I'm moreso making the case that Garrosh wouldn't just burn shit for no reason. He wants global conquest. He wants to rule with an Iron fist alongside his, what he believes to be at least, TRUE Horde.

  13. #73
    he would of cut it down and built a city on the stump as a true war chief should
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne01 View Post
    I believe your hands should be cut off. As I feel your opinions prove your not fit to type.
    Gen Off-Topic being hella ruthless

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I think they ran out of time and just said fuck it to a lot of storylines. There was more than a handful of cut content... Like the one time Baine stood up to fight back against the Alliance directly (why the alliance didn't get fully into Mulgore and were held at the great gate).

    Basically every single time they try focusing on Faction War concepts they fall on their asses because they hamstring the story or drop it into limbo till a major patch. Can't properly set up dominos to fall in a good pattern when you grand stand every major arc while saying the dominos can't fall at all how we think they will.
    I recall as well that initially the Alliance was going to have an intro into the twilight highlands similar to the horde one, tleling the other side of that story . I assume that like the horde base it was also originally going to be 'finished' but cut short due to time constraints.

    And Varian had dialog recorded confronting benedictus for 4.0 but his evil reveal was pushed back to the dragon soul patch, Varian's lines scrapped and benedictus' lines recycled for a confrontation with Thrall instead.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Irrelevant. He did not nuke civilians. Capturing and torturing them later is a completely different war crime, but he did not nuke them.
    Just to be sure, this is sarcasm right? If he’s willing to torture civilians to death, I’m pretty sure he’s willing to nuke them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by alt-ithist View Post
    Just to be sure, this is sarcasm right? If he’s willing to torture civilians to death, I’m pretty sure he’s willing to nuke them.
    He wouldnt nuke them, that would mean they would get off easily.

  17. #77
    MoP ending Garrosh probably. They made him pure evil.

    Cata Garrosh, no. He hated civilian deaths.

  18. #78
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    A valid military target that had been the launching point for Alliance offensives across the continent, resulting in the destruction of at least three Horde encampments. Also, he was fully aware the civilian populace had been evacuated.

    Agreed with you about the rest. Garrosh would've been fighting to win, not to kill as many people as possible up front then bail for another plan.
    Wrong. 10000000% wrong.

    He had planned to mana bomb it with zero warning, but Baine betrayed him and gave the alliance warning ,allowing them to evacuate.

    Also garrosh literally had all the civilian ships captured. Tortured, killed, and enslaved all the civilians.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Irrelevant. He did not nuke civilians. Capturing and torturing them later is a completely different war crime, but he did not nuke them.
    He was planning to nuke them but Baine betrayed him.

  19. #79
    Given how Garrosh killed Cairne when Cairne called Garrosh out on his war hawkishness and stupidity, I'd say yes Garrosh would have been crazy enough and shortsighted enough to burn Teldrassil.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, look at what he did to Theramore. And Pandaria. And his dreams of Stormwind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    While he wasn't above razing a city to the ground,he seemed to care more about winning the war than he cared about doing an edgy asspull move for no reason whatsoever.
    He destroyed the Vale for no reason whatsoever, wiping out Pandaren villages. Garrosh viewed anything that wasn't a part of his True Horde as an enemy to be destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Garrosh was by far worse. He willingly nuked Theramore with as many leaders as he could manage and he was always ready to kill and destroy. His nut sized brain tho wasn´t enough to thinking about burning the tree.
    No, Sylvanas is worse than Garrosh. Sylvanas did everything Garrosh did and more. Sylvanas had an ongoing Unit 731 operation going on in Undercity since Vanilla, where she had mad scientists performing live experimentation on people to create chemical weapons which she liberally made use of. Sylvanas was also far more petty than Garrosh. Garrosh would've burned Teldrassil out of a fanatical devotion to his dream of Orcish glory. Sylvanas burned the tree just to spite a dying elf. Sylvanas also doesn't give a shit about anyone but herself. Garrosh at least wants to protect those who he considers to be apart of his True Horde.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyiana View Post
    uh, garrosh nuked theramore...
    like, i understand that the fanbase isn't willing to give sylvanas an ounce of the "he's complicated" and "he's damaged" and "i see myself in him" that they give to arthas and garrosh, which they give endlessly and it's such thinly masked "i hate women,"
    "Thinly" is beyond generous.

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