NY Attorney General Moves To Dissolve The NRA

[ati87]

Justice is blind, not politically motivated. If we were talking about the AFL-CIO accused of doing the same, NY would happily turn a blind eye.
Besides, it is not the place of the government to file the complaint, it should be the place of the members who's money is being claimed to have been wasted.

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Its ok if the membership does not seek the sanctions, same for any voluntary privately funded organization.

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Then go after LaPierre, not the organization.

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If the actions were taken by the members of the NRA, that would be one thing. Its wrong because the state is only doing it because of the politics of the NRA not what they, as an organization, have done monetarily. If was just about justice, NY would be going after the people accused of wrong doing alone.

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We are not talking about the criminal charges, but the attempt to use it as a backdoor to remove a political group the leadership of the state have personal vendettas against.

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If it was about justice, they would not be out to destroy the entire organization, just criminal charges against the people accused of wrong doing (by the state, not the membership mind you).

In any organisation technically nobody has power to do whatever he or she wants, even the CEO needs to answer to the Board of Directors even if that board of directors are "figureheads".
If LaPierre is spending organisation money on himself I find it hard to believe that the board was not aware of his spending habit and if they weren't than they didn't perform there duties.

LaPierre is not a coffee boy but the top dog within the NRA.

[Muzjhath]

Imagine being scammed by the NRA then lining up to defend them when their scams are being challenged in court.

Sunk Cost Fallacy.
Some people have spent money, clearly they don't spend bad money, thus the money they spent must be good!

[Lynarii]

Its ok if the membership does not seek the sanctions, same for any voluntary privately funded organization.

No, it's not. As a nonprofit organization, there are laws that the NRA has to abide by. Laws which they have broken. Just because the membership is okay with their leaders breaking laws does NOT give them a free pass to do so, the membership of ANY criminal organization is okay with their leaders breaking laws.

Keep in mind that the whistle was blown on the behavior by people within the NRA. So clearly there are members who aren't okay with being defrauded. The rest of the membership, even if they are the majority of the members, can't make fraud legal because they dislike the victims that complained, that's not in any way how the law works.

[Shadowferal]

It USED to be doing a lot of good. It was founded with the aim of promoting proper firearms safety and training, but somewhere along the line it shifted to advocating for firearms manufacturers and fighting any attempt at regulation.

Yeah. I used to be a member. It was around papa Bush's term that I felt I had to quit. Too much shit floating around that made me doubt. They still have the best training in safety however.

[Felya]

Yeah. I used to be a member. It was around papa Bush's term that I felt I had to quit. Too much shit floating around that made me doubt. They still have the best training in safety however.

They were not entirely an arm of GOP, until about the assault rifle ban in the 90s. They still favored GOP before then, but it wasn’t screaming at the RNC that the best is yet to come. They were a lot more reasonable, until around the time you quit.

[Katchii]

Justice is blind, not politically motivated. If we were talking about the AFL-CIO accused of doing the same, NY would happily turn a blind eye.
Besides, it is not the place of the government to file the complaint, it should be the place of the members who's money is being claimed to have been wasted.

This is literally the Attorney General's job.....

Its ok if the membership does not seek the sanctions, same for any voluntary privately funded organization.

So, you're saying because the members aren't going after them that they should be left alone?

Uh...weren't there whistleblowers from within the organization trying to get this information out there? Sounds like their membership wasn't OK with this. But even if their membership was, that doesn't make the NRA exempt from the law.

Then go after LaPierre, not the organization.

But the organization is what hasn't been following the laws.

All the folks named in the suit were acting as agents of the organization. It's up to the organization to ensure the rules are followed. If the folks within the organization that are charged with ensuring the rules are being followed, aren't following the rules, and the organization itself is not correcting that....the organization as a whole is at fault.

If the actions were taken by the members of the NRA, that would be one thing. Its wrong because the state is only doing it because of the politics of the NRA not what they, as an organization, have done monetarily. If was just about justice, NY would be going after the people accused of wrong doing alone.

See above. Won't deny this might be politically motivated, but that doesn't change the fact that the NRA wasn't following the rules. Therefore the NRA is at fault, not just the people accused of wrongdoing.

We are not talking about the criminal charges, but the attempt to use it as a backdoor to remove a political group the leadership of the state have personal vendettas against.

Again, see above. The NRA as a whole, as an organization, is responsible for ensuring it follows the rules. It didn't. Therefore the organization is what's being accused.

If it was about justice, they would not be out to destroy the entire organization, just criminal charges against the people accused of wrong doing (by the state, not the membership mind you).

You again don't seem to understand how the law works in this case.

If someone is acting on behalf of some organization or agency when they commit a crime it's not just the individual who is at fault, but the organization that sanctioned them. The NRA ,as a whole, is responsible for ensure the NRA follows the rules. They failed at that, therefore the NRA is what's being accused of not following the rules.

[Breccia]

Its wrong because the state is only doing it because of the politics of

Citation needed. Because the NY AG was very clear that they were pressing charges for actual crimes. You are defending the NRA's behavior by claiming it's not illegal. You are defending literal criminal fraud. Why? Why are you defending literal criminal fraud? People who believed in the NRA donated to a "non-profit charity" and the four people listed took the money for themselves and their friends. You are defending that behavior.

Why are you defending literal criminal fraud?

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If the actions were taken by the members of the NRA, that would be one thing.

*ahem*

You didn't read the NY AG's post. Which I quoted. To you. Directly.

The suit specifically charges the NRA as a whole, as well as Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre, former Treasurer and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) Wilson “Woody” Phillips, former Chief of Staff and the Executive Director of General Operations Joshua Powell, and Corporate Secretary and General Counsel John Frazer with failing to manage the NRA’s funds and failing to follow numerous state and federal laws, contributing to the loss of more than $64 million in just three years for the NRA.

Your defense is invalid. You either don't know what you're talking about, or, you are literally defending criminal fraud. The NRA is effectively run by those four people, who used the organization as their own private piggy bank.

The NRA was being run like a wallet, while claiming to be a non-profit charity. The NRA broke the rules. The four people specifically cited also broke the rules, but so did the NRA as a whole, by benefiting from tax breaks or other effects normally reserved for non-profit charities, when they weren't one. You're defending this. You're saying "Yes, those four people should be penalized, but the NRA should keep the benefit arranged by those four people". Or, you didn't read up on the case and are defending them out of, I dunno, loyalty to Trump or something.

Stop posting from a position of ignorance and read up on the matter. Or, stop reading up on literal criminal fraud and saying "This is fine, I publicly support and encourage this". Neither is a redeeming character trait.

[Beazy]

The NRA was being run like a wallet,

No, to quote one of the former board members: "its not a piggy bank, its a kingdom".

He really doesn't like LaPierre after watching years of financial abuse.

[Edge-]

Justice is blind, not politically motivated. If we were talking about the AFL-CIO accused of doing the same, NY would happily turn a blind eye.

That's...not what "Justice is blind" means dude. Again, if the NRA hasn't done anything wrong they have nothing to fear. If they have, they're fucked. The political angle of all of this is just the cherry on top.

Besides, it is not the place of the government to file the complaint, it should be the place of the members who's money is being claimed to have been wasted.

Patently untrue and kinda gross thinking, dude. The government has every reason to file suit against an organization lying to their members and lying to the state, and breaking the law in the process.

Should the government like, not bring cases against lawbreakers anymore? Do you even realize what you're unintentionally arguing because you appear to have not thought this through and instead appear to be having aggressive kneejerk reactions?

[Breccia]

if the NRA hasn't done anything wrong they have nothing to fear. If they have, they're fucked.

And just to be clear: NYState is not picking a name at random from a hat and saying "We will investigate this person. If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear".

They picked four names and the company that they fraudulently ran and said "We have large amounts of evidence they did something wrong, and we are bringing them to civil trial for legal consequences for that something wrong." The NRA's records were subpoena'd over a year ago. The investigation's results are the evidence pushing the legal consequences, against the NRA, since the NRA was being used illegally.
@Kellhound 's apparent claim "Well charge only the people that were involved, but let everyone else keep the results of their illegal actions" will continue to be taken as "defending literal criminal fraud" until he specifically and directly recants. Until then, he's defending literal criminal fraud.

[cubby]

We are not talking about the criminal charges, but the attempt to use it as a backdoor to remove a political group the leadership of the state have personal vendettas against.

Why aren't we talking about the criminal charges? Don't those matter? If the NRA is committing crimes, as an organization, shouldn't we do something about that? I guess you're ok with the NRA being a Foreign Agent for Russia, right?

[minteK917]

Imagine being such a husk of a human being you would waste your time defending an organization, that does not pay you, against criminal investigations on a video game forum lol.

[bladeXcrasher]

Why aren't we talking about the criminal charges? Don't those matter? If the NRA is committing crimes, as an organization, shouldn't we do something about that? I guess you're ok with the NRA being a Foreign Agent for Russia, right?

Do we really need to dig up the "rather be Russian than a democrat" shirt pictures? Of course they are okay with that, they look up to the putin regime.

[cubby]

Do we really need to dig up the "rather be Russian than a democrat" shirt pictures? Of course they are okay with that, they look up to the putin regime.

Isn't that just amazing that those shirts not only exist, but that people wear them with sincerity. The GOP is possibly the most morally bankrupt, literal treasonous political party in the history of the United States. And they are continuing to double down on treason, racism, disenfranchisement, and overall hating voters.

[bladeXcrasher]

Isn't that just amazing that those shirts not only exist, but that people wear them with sincerity. The GOP is possibly the most morally bankrupt, literal treasonous political party in the history of the United States. And they are continuing to double down on treason, racism, disenfranchisement, and overall hating voters.

Gotta hurt those "right people" as they have been know to say. I'm crossing my fingers this talk of a party fracture comes to fruition.

[cubby]

Gotta hurt those "right people" as they have been know to say. I'm crossing my fingers this talk of a party fracture comes to fruition.

I would like to think that if enough "solid" Republicans start a new party, those that were looking to leave but had no where to go (a legitimate concern) will find a place.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It isn't that I am happy that this rancid organization is falling on hard times and might finally get tossed in the fire.. but.. has anyone thought of what horrible orginization will rise in its place if it all happens? I bet it is 10 times worse.

[Xyonai]

It isn't that I am happy that this rancid organization is falling on hard times and might finally get tossed in the fire.. but.. has anyone thought of what horrible orginization will rise in its place if it all happens? I bet it is 10 times worse.

That depends on if it would be -one- organization, or several who pop up to fill the power vacuum and waste time/resources squabbling. Like it's not hard for Conservatives to fall in line behind whoever's tossing the most weight around, but if it comes down to a couple years of NRA-Lite vs NRA-XL then I can live with that.

[Kellhound]

Citation needed. Because the NY AG was very clear that they were pressing charges for actual crimes. You are defending the NRA's behavior by claiming it's not illegal. You are defending literal criminal fraud. Why? Why are you defending literal criminal fraud? People who believed in the NRA donated to a "non-profit charity" and the four people listed took the money for themselves and their friends. You are defending that behavior.

Why are you defending literal criminal fraud?

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*ahem*

You didn't read the NY AG's post. Which I quoted. To you. Directly.



Your defense is invalid. You either don't know what you're talking about, or, you are literally defending criminal fraud. The NRA is effectively run by those four people, who used the organization as their own private piggy bank.

The NRA was being run like a wallet, while claiming to be a non-profit charity. The NRA broke the rules. The four people specifically cited also broke the rules, but so did the NRA as a whole, by benefiting from tax breaks or other effects normally reserved for non-profit charities, when they weren't one. You're defending this. You're saying "Yes, those four people should be penalized, but the NRA should keep the benefit arranged by those four people". Or, you didn't read up on the case and are defending them out of, I dunno, loyalty to Trump or something.

Stop posting from a position of ignorance and read up on the matter. Or, stop reading up on literal criminal fraud and saying "This is fine, I publicly support and encourage this". Neither is a redeeming character trait.

Again, if it was the ALF-CIO, you would be defending the organization.
NY is going after the entire organization because they want to destroy it for reasons not attached to the alleged crimes.

FYI, I really don't care about your idea of what is or isn't a redeeming character trait.

[Calfredd]

Again, if it was the ALF-CIO, you would be defending the organization.
NY is going after the entire organization because they want to destroy it for reasons not attached to the alleged crimes.

Is one of those reasons that the NRA is a rotted-out husk of what it used to be before the old members were run out as the diseased parasites took over?