Imagine democracy in WoW!!

[Crimson Spears]

see he got hired cause he was an amazing player, but i guess as ya get older and you spend all day working on wow, to then go home and play wow, you sorta... drop.

You can go back and see some of his old logs... he was never an amazing player he played for very,very long periods of time when most of the playerbase just hit buttons and bosses were so weakly tuned that you have the classic experience of a new raid lasting an hour and a half once servers go live.

I don't think he changed but rather to quote garrosh " Times change"

Against a playerbase that has simcraft and highly detailed guides...well have you ever heard the story of "The emperor has no cloths?"

Let me spoil a decade old game here because the situation fits perfectly.. the high end playerbase sees Ion the same way they see the antagonist in this warhammer mission.



Just instead of the corrupted bolter its alternative power...

[Chonar]

Holy Murloc would have so many more votes.

[Aggressive]

Only for stuff that does not affect actual gameplay.

No matter what we think about what wow devs do wrong. They are still better at it than the collective wow playerbase is. By a magnitude of infinity.

Transmog? Sure why not.

This statement made me laugh. I highly doubt wow developers are the smartest bitches in the world. They NEED help. The way they do class balance just screams they need competent people to help them. But your opinion is yours and mine is mine.

[mbit]

You have a weird idea of democracy. Restricted democracy is not democracy.

Limited access to voting is how it originally used to be irl. Used to be you could only vote as land owner. So his view is rather traditional than weird. That said it should be a nobrainer to filter out the rabble. No point letting fools make decisions. The fun part is of course setting the filter.

What would be however more hilarious is allowing to purchase votes with gold or even real $. Time for some real democray. The butthurt over this would be worth watching.

[Fenrys]

Ion is a terrible player though...

Is he? He tends gets CE each tier (though typically rather late) so he is certainly above average.

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I don't want to really take jabs at the guy for that. Long as his groups is happy its fine but it kinda hurts me on an emotional level when he is used as an example of what makes a good player.

I mean healing logs are meaningless for determining how "good" a player is

[Crimson Spears]

Is he? He tends gets CE each tier (though typically rather late) so he is certainly above average.

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I mean healing logs are meaningless for determining how "good" a player is

I mean...no?

Logs are not meaningless they are the most impartial tool we have.

[Fenrys]

I mean...no?

Logs are not meaningless they are the most impartial tool we have.

Sorry, let me rephrase. Healing parses are meaningless. Logs are of course incredibly useful. Parsing is based on other factors such as how much damage people take, the other healers in the raid, number of healers, the role within the healing team the healer takes, raid dps - factors which do not determine skill. Good healing will not usually equal good parses. Its fun to parse hunt, but don't think it equals skill at all for healers.

[Alaenore]

You have a weird idea of democracy. Restricted democracy is not democracy.

Democracy is simply "people" having the political power. What differenciate it from an aristocracy or olligarchy is mostly how many people can participate.

Athens was a democracy, but only males of age were able to participate. Women, slaves (even freed) and foreigners were not.
Women had no right to vote until recently in many countries, that were still considered democracy.
Children still cannot vote, neither can foreigners, or even convicted felons in some places.

So yes, it's restricted, and if something like that came to be in WoW, which I hope will never happen, there'll have to be rules on who can vote on what.

[Nnyco]

Hell no, ive seen enough forum posts to know thats terrible.

[guisadop]

Democracy doesn't even work in real life, let alone in an online game.

[Crimson Spears]

Sorry, let me rephrase. Healing parses are meaningless. Logs are of course incredibly useful. Parsing is based on other factors such as how much damage people take, the other healers in the raid, number of healers, the role within the healing team the healer takes, raid dps - factors which do not determine skill. Good healing will not usually equal good parses. Its fun to parse hunt, but don't think it equals skill at all for healers.

I kind of agree. Need to stress the kind of... I think you can make the argument for minor differences in logs with that... not differences as step as ions.

[Speedlance]

Problem is that the majority dont have an opinion, they follow whatever is popular. So democracy would work exactly how it does in real life now. Gl with that.

[Sunderella]

Dude, I just found out that my reward for reaching Renown 60 in patch 9.1 ... is a Warlock xmog ...! And I play with Rogue, Hunter and DK.
Just leave me here ... crying in a fetal position in the corner of my room.

It could be salvageable if at least there was non-robe chest.

[Fenrys]

I kind of agree. Need to stress the kind of... I think you can make the argument for minor differences in logs with that... not differences as step as ions.

Its not a matter of agreeing; anyone who thinks healing parses matter doesn't understand healing. Ion is killing the bosses and so its likely his healing is good enough. Healing is a zero sum game - the only time hps matters is when it isn't enough to keep the raid alive. Without actually going through his logs there is no way of telling whether his healing is good.

[VinceVega]

I mean...no?

Logs are not meaningless they are the most impartial tool we have.

Healing logs ARE useless. You get better logs the worse your group plays.
If your group is consistently average to good you will NEVER get good logs. Because you don't have to clean up big piles of shit all around^^

Edit: Just read other replies. Parses etc.^^

[Azerate]

OSRS runs on player driven polls. That's how it gets decided what content makes it into the game, and what rewards make it in. If players don't like something the devs modifty it until they do, basically. In practice, this doesn't really have an impact because 99% of new content gets voted in cause people just want new stuff. The difference is OSRS is not on patch/expansion cycle, they just create content updates from time to time and introduce them to the game once they are ready and have passed the poll.

One positive thing that it would do for sure is it would stop some people from claiming they represent the majority and speak their opinions...and would probably make the game even more casual.

PS. Healing logs depend heavily on who the other healers are and how they are performing. I didn't even read the thread carefully enough to understand who is getting bashed here, but you can't claim someone is bad based on his healing logs being in the 30%s all the time.

PS2. As for "Restricted democracy" @Crimson Spears, that would probably be done, but the criterion to have a vote would be something lesser, like having a max level character for example or finishing the story campaign or something along those lines. They would never allow 0,001% of players to decide how the game is going to run, and rightfully so.

[Varitok]

Could work so long as it was a restricted democracy.

Cutting edge or ahead of the curve and challenger and up.

Trasmog could be a free vote but just like the hidden forums on the official forums I wouldn't want votes for class or gameplay balance to be open to everyone.

Elitists dictating WoW? Lol. How to kill a game 101.

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Democracy doesn't even work in real life, let alone in an online game.

I mean, It does? It may not work how people like it but it works.

[Crimson Spears]

OSRS runs on player driven polls. That's how it gets decided what content makes it into the game, and what rewards make it in. If players don't like something the devs modifty it until they do, basically. In practice, this doesn't really have an impact because 99% of new content gets voted in cause people just want new stuff. The difference is OSRS is not on patch/expansion cycle, they just create content updates from time to time and introduce them to the game once they are ready and have passed the poll.

One positive thing that it would do for sure is it would stop some people from claiming they represent the majority and speak their opinions...and would probably make the game even more casual.

PS. Healing logs depend heavily on who the other healers are and how they are performing. I didn't even read the thread carefully enough to understand who is getting bashed here, but you can't claim someone is bad based on his healing logs being in the 30%s all the time.

PS2. As for "Restricted democracy" @Crimson Spears, that would probably be done, but the criterion to have a vote would be something lesser, like having a max level character for example or finishing the story campaign or something along those lines. They would never allow 0,001% of players to decide how the game is going to run, and rightfully so.

I mean... you say never as if hidden forums don't exist for the sole purpose of getting direct feedback from those 0.001% Very,very,very few CE players even are granted access to them.

I don't think they would ever publicly announce a voting system like that but the concept of the restriction isn't something they are not currently doing.

[Alroxas]

In a word: No.

In a longer post: No democracy in WoW as it relates to game content/design is horrible idea because players are bad at design. Nobody wants to be at the "bottom" of the DPS charts but encounter design will always favor certain kinds of specs over others. Here's an AoE add fight, here's a ST fight, here's a Priority target then cleave fight, or here's a DPS check per time segment fight.

Next, democracy has changing winds to allow for continued development. Ok we' got this plotline mapped out based on what the current playerbase has voted but then in the next month/quarter/year the playerbase has shifted position and now has invalidated the current plotline because #SaveSylvanas took off after that viral video by Xxx-Streamer-xxxX.

And then there's also an issue with development time versus player expectations. It's not like players can vote today for one thing and get it the next day. Development can take a lot of time. System redesigns/overhauls would take a lot of resources and we've already seen how much a long delay can infuriate the player base. Do you really want longer times between patches?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

https://i.imgur.com/cEzGxMf.png
oof you aint wrong, i almost feel bad for them
1. it would be funny to raid with ion himself but
2. imagine having to be the guy to tell him hes doing too bad and is being sat from the raid team.

I don’t know the idea that the raid team would go “hey I know we have raided together for years and regularly progress and clear
Mythic, but some people online said your logs are bad so your off the raid team”. It’s not like he’s been carried though one easy raid tier he’s had pretty much every raid done on mythic.