NY Attorney General Moves To Dissolve The NRA

[D Luniz]

It just postpones the inevitable. Once NY finds them guilty, they will file again and have it granted. The end result will be the same, NY will get nothing and the NRA will reform in Texas. Besides, everyone knows this has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with a political vendetta.

So you feel the NRA managed all the money properly?

[Edge-]

NY is going after the entire organization because they want to destroy it for reasons not attached to the alleged crimes.

Ok, but did they like, commit crimes? Because I don't see what relevance the political angle has if they're like, breaking the law and shit.

[DarkTZeratul]

Again, if it was the ALF-CIO, you would be defending the organization.

Fucking PROVE IT. Show us an organization like the AFL-CIO that has been committing financial fraud on a massive scale that either wasn't dismantled as a result, or that "liberals" were willing to ignore. Otherwise this is an entirely meaningless hypothetical that contributes nothing to the discussion except to project your own partisan biases onto other people.

NY is going after the entire organization because they want to destroy it for reasons not attached to the alleged crimes.

Again, fucking PROVE IT. Show us evidence that this is a partisan hit job and has nothing to do with the massive amounts of fraud that you are otherwise refusing to address. Otherwise, like before, all you're doing is loudly proclaiming that you're a partisan hack who will gladly ignore any amount of wrongdoing so long as it's being committed by people on your side.

[Kellhound]

That's...not what "Justice is blind" means dude. Again, if the NRA hasn't done anything wrong they have nothing to fear. If they have, they're fucked. The political angle of all of this is just the cherry on top.



Patently untrue and kinda gross thinking, dude. The government has every reason to file suit against an organization lying to their members and lying to the state, and breaking the law in the process.

Should the government like, not bring cases against lawbreakers anymore? Do you even realize what you're unintentionally arguing because you appear to have not thought this through and instead appear to be having aggressive kneejerk reactions?

The political angle is the only reason NY is going after the entire organization.

It is an organization that no one is forced to give money to. As with all such organizations, the government has no business attempting to destroy it. That is the job of the members.

As long as the "victims" are participating willingly, I fail to see how it should be unlawful. And I do not limit it to the NRA, I include all non-compulsory privately funded organizations in this.

[Edge-]

It is an organization that no one is forced to give money to. As with all such organizations, the government has no business attempting to destroy it. That is the job of the members.

Unless those organizations are fraudulently using that money, defrauding their donors, and lying to the state. You know, things that the NRA might be doing?

So can I create charities that don't pay taxes and just take peoples money, lying to them and the state about what I do with the money? Is that like, pretty cool in your book?

[Kellhound]

And just to be clear: NYState is not picking a name at random from a hat and saying "We will investigate this person. If they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear".

They picked four names and the company that they fraudulently ran and said "We have large amounts of evidence they did something wrong, and we are bringing them to civil trial for legal consequences for that something wrong." The NRA's records were subpoena'd over a year ago. The investigation's results are the evidence pushing the legal consequences, against the NRA, since the NRA was being used illegally.
@Kellhound 's apparent claim "Well charge only the people that were involved, but let everyone else keep the results of their illegal actions" will continue to be taken as "defending literal criminal fraud" until he specifically and directly recants. Until then, he's defending literal criminal fraud.

You have no issue throwing the baby out with the bathwater because you don't like the baby.

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Is one of those reasons that the NRA is a rotted-out husk of what it used to be before the old members were run out as the diseased parasites took over?

That is for its membership to decide.

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So you feel the NRA managed all the money properly?

That is for their members to decide.

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Ok, but did they like, commit crimes? Because I don't see what relevance the political angle has if they're like, breaking the law and shit.

Going after people vs trying to dismantle an entire organization with no attempt to allow it to right itself...

[Bakis]

It's mind-boggling that NRA (well Piere tbh since the board wasn't informed) thought that their case could be valid.
It could not be more clear cut that it was only meant to avoid legal scrutiny.

[Kellhound]

Fucking PROVE IT. Show us an organization like the AFL-CIO that has been committing financial fraud on a massive scale that either wasn't dismantled as a result, or that "liberals" were willing to ignore. Otherwise this is an entirely meaningless hypothetical that contributes nothing to the discussion except to project your own partisan biases onto other people.

Again, fucking PROVE IT. Show us evidence that this is a partisan hit job and has nothing to do with the massive amounts of fraud that you are otherwise refusing to address. Otherwise, like before, all you're doing is loudly proclaiming that you're a partisan hack who will gladly ignore any amount of wrongdoing so long as it's being committed by people on your side.

The Teamsters still exist, despite Hoffa.

"Does Cuomo think his policies are threatening the existence of the NRA? "I would like to believe it's true," he said, laughing." Hardly the words of a non-partisan actor.

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Unless those organizations are fraudulently using that money, defrauding their donors, and lying to the state. You know, things that the NRA might be doing?

So can I create charities that don't pay taxes and just take peoples money, lying to them and the state about what I do with the money? Is that like, pretty cool in your book?

It is up to the people donating the money to decide if it is providing a sufficient return of investment.

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It's mind-boggling that NRA (well Piere tbh since the board wasn't informed) thought that their case could be valid.
It could not be more clear cut that it was only meant to avoid legal scrutiny.

Bankruptcy is often used to delay actions, even when you know it will be dismissed.

[Breccia]

Again, if it was the ALF-CIO, you would be defending the organization.

That sounds like conjecture. And it also sounds like projection. Wake me when it happens.

As the NY AG said in a post I am now convinced you chose not to read, either because you didn't care to inform yourself or because you wanted to defend the NRA, doesn't matter both are dumb ideas, the NY AG was very clear that the NRA was used as tool to money launder by basically everyone in its upper core, you know, the people who used it.

Because basically all of upper management, including its head, used the NRA to defraud its members. The NRA is "the murder weapon". It's basically evidence. When you rob a bank and give the money to an orphanage, guess what? The bank gets it back, not the orphanage. When you use a company to commit a crime, the company itself is, well, guilty. This isn't about Paul from Accounting stealing paper clips. This is about LaPierre using long-lasting non-profit charity to buy himself a mansion, laundering donations and keeping them for himself.

Now with the last line you'll get from me on the topic, since "I really don't care about your idea of what is or isn't a redeeming character trait" is either admission you don't want to engage in actual discussion but only defending criminal fraud, or possibly admission you're a sociopath which you do you I guess, maybe you're concerned about the members. I'm giving you credit here since you didn't actually say that, only "vendetta". But um...can't the members just start a new, legal org? If the only doctor in town murders several people, do you say "but who will take care of his patients?" No. You say "he murdered people, he goes to jail".

"But what about their poor customers" is not a defense. They are the ones who were defrauded. That's why membership is down, that's right, Trump cost the NRA members. They spent less in 2020 too -- possibly because LaPierre stole a lot of the money. And they're laying people off. Not only are you defending theft and fraud, you're not even defending a decent company.

There is nothing left to salvage. The company was used to commit crimes. The legal recourse for putting a company in jail, is to disperse it. What you're asking for, the NRA not being dispersed, is a posisble result. But due to the legal nature of its setup -- a direct parallel of Trump U -- the company is accused of defrauding, therefore, it is the company that must be shut down. The four people? They're also targets. But the key word is "also" not "instead". The fraud and theft was systemic, not incidental or accidental. We'll see where this ends, but you seem to be saying "don't even accuse the company that was used to systemically defraud and steal, because that's a vendetta".

No. It's a the appropriate legal recourse. It's literally justice.

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It is an organization that no one is forced to give money to.

There are plenty of other companies nobody is forced to shop at. When they defraud and steal, guess what happens to them?

You have no argument that's valid. "I fail to see how it's unlawful" is code for "I didn't bother looking at the NY AG post which spelled this out, but instead went with my pre-conceived notions". Educate yourself or expect this everyone-on-you beatdown to continue. You're objectively on the wrong side here.

[Bakis]

Bankruptcy is often used to delay actions, even when you know it will be dismissed.

But whas the aim of a presumable delay? No form of reorganization or press release "We can do better" would impact the AG plan.
All it did was alienating the current board members and large parts of public even further.

[Edge-]

It is up to the people donating the money to decide if it is providing a sufficient return of investment.

Man, I guess this is just Kellhound Approved(tm) criminality so it doesn't actually count.

[Breccia]

It is up to the people donating the money to decide if it is providing a sufficient return of investment.

Objectively false. It's a non-profit. Non-profits obey rules, such as the laws the NY AG specifically mentioned in the post I cited that you never read.

Maybe people would like it if you, say, murdered a pedophile, but that's still illegal. And you still go to jail for that shit.

Stop defending literal fraud.

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Oh and just so we're clear: the NRA filed bankruptcy -- either because they're broke, or more likely to dissolve the NRA so that NY AG couldn't take all their illegal money, and then re-incorpoerate in Texas.

That was the NRA trying to break up the NRA.

Any defense "oh you can't break the company up" is invalid, when the company tries to break itself up. @Kellhound 's defense is summarily dismissed with prejudice.

[Kellhound]

That sounds like conjecture. And it also sounds like projection. Wake me when it happens.

As the NY AG said in a post I am now convinced you chose not to read, either because you didn't care to inform yourself or because you wanted to defend the NRA, doesn't matter both are dumb ideas, the NY AG was very clear that the NRA was used as tool to money launder by basically everyone in its upper core, you know, the people who used it.

Because basically all of upper management, including its head, used the NRA to defraud its members. The NRA is "the murder weapon". It's basically evidence. When you rob a bank and give the money to an orphanage, guess what? The bank gets it back, not the orphanage. When you use a company to commit a crime, the company itself is, well, guilty. This isn't about Paul from Accounting stealing paper clips. This is about LaPierre using long-lasting non-profit charity to buy himself a mansion, laundering donations and keeping them for himself.

Now with the last line you'll get from me on the topic, since "I really don't care about your idea of what is or isn't a redeeming character trait" is either admission you don't want to engage in actual discussion but only defending criminal fraud, or possibly admission you're a sociopath which you do you I guess, maybe you're concerned about the members. I'm giving you credit here since you didn't actually say that, only "vendetta". But um...can't the members just start a new, legal org? If the only doctor in town murders several people, do you say "but who will take care of his patients?" No. You say "he murdered people, he goes to jail".

"But what about their poor customers" is not a defense. They are the ones who were defrauded. That's why membership is down, that's right, Trump cost the NRA members. They spent less in 2020 too -- possibly because LaPierre stole a lot of the money. And they're laying people off. Not only are you defending theft and fraud, you're not even defending a decent company.

There is nothing left to salvage. The company was used to commit crimes. The legal recourse for putting a company in jail, is to disperse it. What you're asking for, the NRA not being dispersed, is a posisble result. But due to the legal nature of its setup -- a direct parallel of Trump U -- the company is accused of defrauding, therefore, it is the company that must be shut down. The four people? They're also targets. But the key word is "also" not "instead". The fraud and theft was systemic, not incidental or accidental. We'll see where this ends, but you seem to be saying "don't even accuse the company that was used to systemically defraud and steal, because that's a vendetta".

No. It's a the appropriate legal recourse. It's literally justice.

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There are plenty of other companies nobody is forced to shop at. When they defraud and steal, guess what happens to them?

You have no argument that's valid. "I fail to see how it's unlawful" is code for "I didn't bother looking at the NY AG post which spelled this out, but instead went with my pre-conceived notions". Educate yourself or expect this everyone-on-you beatdown to continue. You're objectively on the wrong side here.

If you are satisfied with the return on investment, have you actually been defrauded?

I know full well the accusations levelled against the NRA. I also know full well Cuomo has made it known he desires to destroy the NRA for their political activities.

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But whas the aim of a presumable delay? No form of reorganization or press release "We can do better" would impact the AG plan.
All it did was alienating the current board members and large parts of public even further.

The aim? Most likely to move money around.

[draynay]

no attempt to allow it to right itself...

Good grief, this again?

If you are satisfied with the return on investment, have you actually been defrauded?

If you're suicidal is it legal for you to be murdered?

*Yawn*

[Kellhound]

Man, I guess this is just Kellhound Approved(tm) criminality so it doesn't actually count.

When it comes to destroying an entire organization, I'm not a fan of it. I believe in holding people responsible.

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Objectively false. It's a non-profit. Non-profits obey rules, such as the laws the NY AG specifically mentioned in the post I cited that you never read.

Maybe people would like it if you, say, murdered a pedophile, but that's still illegal. And you still go to jail for that shit.

Stop defending literal fraud.

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Oh and just so we're clear: the NRA filed bankruptcy -- either because they're broke, or more likely to dissolve the NRA so that NY AG couldn't take all their illegal money, and then re-incorpoerate in Texas.

That was the NRA trying to break up the NRA.

Any defense "oh you can't break the company up" is invalid, when the company tries to break itself up. @Kellhound 's defense is summarily dismissed with prejudice.

It is your subjective opinion that my subjective opinion is false.

The NRA attempted to reorganize, not dissolve. There is a difference.

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Good grief, this again?



If you're suicidal is it legal for you to be murdered?

*Yawn*

In some places it is legal for a suicidal person to be "murdered".

[Breccia]

It is your

*LOUD ANNOYING BUZZER*

Still didn't read the NY AG's post, I see. The one that says "these are the laws that were broken".

When a state AG brings a court case, they don't just go up to the judge and say "vendetta". The point to statute, with specific examples.

You are claiming they're not allowed to do that.

Stop defending literal fraud.

[Cthulhu 2020]

That is for its membership to decide.

The good old "Free market will handle it!"

Did you just like, not take history class? Or is your memory retention that bad?

Carpet baggers and other dubious salesmen would hawk snake oil and other shit products onto their customers, who were convinced that it worked even when it really didn't. There were even cases where these phony merchants would sell stuff like toothpaste that rotted your teeth, but the people using it were dumb enough to hang onto it because they felt a "loyalty" to this product or person, and attributed their malady to someone else.

Sorry, your ideals of "The magic hand of the free market" or whatever you call it here, being a remedy to everything, is not just wrong but disgusting as well. People are getting scammed, but their loyalty to a political cause is making them line up to defend their scammers. Why should a scamming organization be able to continue to operate, simply because their members are too stupid to realize they've been scammed?

The only reason YOU'RE saying NY is doing it for political reasons, is because you defend the NRA purely for political reasons. If this was some left wing organization scamming people, you'd be all for the government shutting them down, and we know it. Stop carrying water for scammers purely because of political reasons. But again, that's how Republicans operate. They project their own shortcomings on everyone else. Simply because YOU'RE motivated by political agendas doesn't mean everyone else is. Stop projecting your faults onto others.


You remember all of those hundreds of posts where you've said you're for law and order? Yeah, we all get to sit here and laugh at you for being a political tool. The NRA is COMMITTING CRIMES and you don't want the government to shut them down for it. So much for law and order.

We get to point to this thread as one of the single cases in the massive pile where it's clear you don't give two shits about law and order when it's politically inconvenient for you.

[Felya]

When it comes to destroying an entire organization, I'm not a fan of it. I believe in holding people responsible.

How are you holding these people responsible? What did NRA do, to the perpetrators?

[postman1782]

How are you holding these people responsible? What did NRA do, to the perpetrators?

They promoted them. It is just like if the cops do an internal investigation, and clear themselves, but later get indicted on murder charges when the body cam footage comes out of them executing an unarmed man. Everyone in that precinct and the people doing the investigations should all be fired and charged.

[Lynarii]

Again, if it was the ALF-CIO, you would be defending the organization.
NY is going after the entire organization because they want to destroy it for reasons not attached to the alleged crimes.

FYI, I really don't care about your idea of what is or isn't a redeeming character trait.

No, they are going after the entire organization because, as you so rightly have pointed out repeatedly, the membership supports criminal acts.