Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Theodarzna]

By fuckin who? Does Israel have no other allies in the west or something?

I've always maintained the US is more the counterbalance that keeps the Israeli's from steamrolling over what is left of the Hamas and PLO, similar to how we pay the Jordanians and Egyptians (Mainly Egypt) to not attack Israel.

[krogy]

I'm from Israel I'll give you some of my opinions and maybe some information you don't know (after skimming some of the posts here), it's gonna be a 1 off, I'm not going to get dragged into any meaningless discussion, take what you want or deny what you want.

I'll start by saying our current gov is shit which we can all agree on.

* About israel bombing the residental towers - In those are living hamas operatives and the rich people in gaza, does that got thier wealth from terror and opression of the gazans. But still before any of those buildings are being bombed there are 2 things being done, a few hours or even more prior every residents in those buildings are being sent SMS and even phone calls that the bombing will happen and they should evacuate. 2nd a few minutes before the bomb a disarmed missle is being fire on the roof by whats called "knock on roof" to give another heads up to anyone still there to get out. The army is trying to avoid any innocent casualties.

* Children dying - I can't tell you if any at all or how many died because of the attacks of IDF but I can tell you most of those dead children being reported are actually killed by hamas on rockets. They have about 30% failure rate - which means about 30% of the rockers being fired actaully hit gaza itself, if we had about 1500 rockets shot at us you can be sure at least 500 fell in gaza and thats what actually killed children. IDF is extreamly accurate and careful when it can.

* How does Hamas control gaza? Not by being useful or loved but by fear - and this is my issue with the our actions, we are too soft, as long as the gazans fear hamas more than us nothing will change we don't have anyone to talk to about peace, hamas needs to be rooted out and then we can head back in the right direction. My father in law told me stories about the past how they went to gaza markets and it was safe, we had peace with gaza and we had coliving and commerece, it all changed when hamas took power.

* In israel there are 1.7 million which are intergal part of the country, theres only a small minority taht supports hamas and are causing the riots these days. Same goes for the small minority of jews causing riots. In my opinion we should shoot them all in the legs jews or arabs as long as they are causing troubles for the normal majority and our internal affairs are failing here by letting the issue escelate with shit managment and response.

* I'm not sure if you are aware but we already passed 20 years on rockets on Israel, mainly on the south. We have hundred of fucked up childrend because of indisciminate shooting. Whenever a rocket is being being launched they have between 15-30 seconds to get to safe spot because they know they are being aimed at. On the other hand the gazans knows that IDF doesn't bomb indesciminitly and as long as they don't hang out next to hamas infrastrcture or millitants they are safe and will be warned about any nearby building being bombed in the future.

* The Iron Dome is pretty much what keeps gaza free and prevents an all out war. We developed it spent billions and each missle costs 50000$ (2 are fired for each rocket) and on the other hand the rockets are cheap. We are spending millions for passive defense, money which could be used for the wellbeing of gaza instead if we just had someone to talk to that doesn't have the agenda of annhilating israel as part of it's core.

I probably forgot a whole lot more points but you'll have to deal with it.

[Easo]

Pretty much the same excuse Assad's army used when they reduced their own country to rubble. They offered about as much proof as Israel that these buildings in Gaza were used for "military operations": zero.

You chose not to see, that is your problem. Never seen videos from Gaza where after airstrike secondary explosions start going off? That's on you.
I mean, Hamas have denied they are using tunnels under Gaza, which are widely known, both from sattelite pictures and photos/videos from inside them. UNRWA even had to acknowledge they found missiles in their schools.

Hamas official tells Russia: We’re ready for ceasefire with Israel

Read - Israeli airstrikes are starting to hurt us. Ground operation is next to clean up as much as possible and then this all will likely end for the next few years.

We can get around to discussing Hamas again when Hamas is the one causing the lion's share of the civilian casualties.

I'm not defending their actions. I'm just focusing on the bigger threat first. Helps that it's also one that has the better, if still small, chance of being shamed into changing their approach.

By your logic Israel should stop all attacks if the count of dead Jews is lower than that of dead Arabs. At least that what seem to be implied from your previous posts. Washington Post even made an article which kinda blames Israel for using Iron Dome, because it basically works too well. Cannot get more ridiculous than that.

If the US cut off the billions in military aid and loan guarantees given every year, I believe it'd be a matter of hours that Israel would suddenly remember peace is an option.

Nothing would happen. It is a nice chunk of Israeli military budget but they absolutely would survive without it. Roughly 3 billion out of 20+

[Rennadrel]

Maybe . . . not commit war crimes?

Big ask, apparently.

So you have no problem with Hamas trying to indiscriminately kill Israelis whenever they like with zero regard for civilian life, not to mention their rocket attacks always wind up aimed at civilians rather than military targets, but Israel can't do the same thing with better rocket technology since Hamas puts their military assets in civilian areas

Also, zero fight back just encourages the terrorists to keep doing the same crap. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

[Shadowferal]

More likely if Israel stopped having the US there, Gaza would be flattened. We've generally been there to keep them somewhat muzzled. Heck there is some evidence the whole USS Liberty thing was the US spying on them and giving secrets to the Egyptians. .

Nope.
I firmly believe that without US aid Israel would be a 3rd world country in a matter of months if not sooner.
It's just a matter of time anyway. The moment the US finds an alternative to oil they'll pack up and treat the whole of the middle east like they treat every area they've no interest in; with indifference.

[krogy]

Nope.
I firmly believe that without US aid Israel would be a 3rd world country in a matter of months if not sooner.
It's just a matter of time anyway. The moment the US finds an alternative to oil they'll pack up and treat the whole of the middle east like they treat every area they've no interest in; with indifference.

Actually part of those funds we don't sell our militray technology to almost everyone, the moment US stops paying we will likely thrive even more and gain even more money than we lose. It's a win for the US they gain cutting edge military technology all while preventing it from going to non friendly forces and all of it for pennies compared to how much it would cost.

[jonnysensible]

https://twitter.com/OmarBaddar/statu...84762142330881
https://twitter.com/reider/status/1392525901284483074
remind you of something?

[Draco-Onis]

Actually part of those funds we don't sell our militray technology to almost everyone, the moment US stops paying we will likely thrive even more and gain even more money than we lose. It's a win for the US they gain cutting edge military technology all while preventing it from going to non friendly forces and all of it for pennies compared to how much it would cost.

This is a rather idiotic statement nations don't do things out of kindness of their hearts and Israeli politicians would not come to the US each year begging for money if they would be better off without it. Also who would you sell it to that doesn't have better deals with other nations or hate your guts?

[krogy]

This is a rather idiotic statement nations don't do things out of kindness of their hearts and Israeli politicians would not come to the US each year begging for money if they would be better off without it. Also who would you sell it to that doesn't have better deals with other nations or hate your guts?

They are asking for money because there is already a deal, might as well sweeten it.
I'll give you 1 big example - Russia.

[jonnysensible]

La Familia telling people in the group chat to go to Jaffa and stab people '“Police presence is low right now in Jaffa, we have an opportunity to break into their houses and stab them! Start knocking on doors one by one”

these people should be put against a wall

[downnola]

You chose not to see, that is your problem. Never seen videos from Gaza where after airstrike secondary explosions start going off? That's on you.
I mean, Hamas have denied they are using tunnels under Gaza, which are widely known, both from sattelite pictures and photos/videos from inside them. UNRWA even had to acknowledge they found missiles in their schools.

I'm really getting sick of repeating myself. How many times do I have to say I'm not defending Hamas here before you guys get it through your thick fucking skulls? Please point out where I'm taking a side here and defending Hamas. You claim I'm biased and choose not to see the truth yet you're demonstrating that you're clearly picking a side here. You're trying to justify indiscriminate bombing because they're "military targets." Human rights groups have been calling Israel on this bullshit for years. They pulled it in Lebanon and this isn't the first time they've done it in Gaza. None of these statements absolve Hamas of their own war crimes and terrorism. I'm not refusing to see shit, I'm simply arguing something that should be obvious to any rational human being.

*Edit - Oh look, an Israeli official using a two-year-old video from Syria to argue that Hamas rockets are killing Palestinians and using them as human shields. Open your eyes, they said. Your bias is on you they said.

[Draco-Onis]

They are asking for money because there is already a deal, might as well sweeten it.
I'll give you 1 big example - Russia.

Oh yea Russia is going to spend billions to replace what the US gives you

You do realize that those weapons are not leggos and need to be made compatible right? Russia wants the same thing the US got from you intel. That's the only reason the US is giving you aid Israel is a good strategic way to project power when needed they don't need your weapons they just want you to be their dog instead of the US.

[JohnBrown1917]

I've always maintained the US is more the counterbalance that keeps the Israeli's from steamrolling over what is left of the Hamas and PLO, similar to how we pay the Jordanians and Egyptians (Mainly Egypt) to not attack Israel.

lmao the US would not stop Isreal from doing that.

[Kryctos]

How could this be? I thought the last administration had achieved peace in the Middle East.

[Biglog]

The one thing currently that's so strange about the current situation is that Hamas is launching literally thousands of totally *unguided* rockets indiscriminately at Israeli civilian areas, like Germany with the V rockets at London in WW2 indiscriminately not having any specific target. Just launching them at cities to kill civilians and create terror.

Israel on the other hand if they are going to strike a Hamas building or site rockets were launched from, they 'roof knock' and warn people to leave before bombing the building with accurate smart bombs to minimize collateral damage to civilians. Yet, for some reason globally Israel has taken far more negative PR from it's retaliatory attacks than Hamas.

Critical thinking in the world is at an all-time low right now, but still that is a head-scratcher. Should Israel line up about 500 unguided rocket MLRS trucks on their side of the border fence and just do the same and launch hundreds of Grad rockets indiscriminately against civilian areas in Gaza when Hamas launches it's unguided rocket attacks at Israeli cities? It would be very easy and relatively cheap for Israel to do, far far cheaper than expensive accurate smart bombs from F-35s.

I'm not saying Israel should really do this. But what I am saying is that the people complaining about Israel's retaliatory strikes should maybe take a step back and think about what they are really complaining about. I also understand the plight of the Palestinian people and how they've been treated in an essentially apartheid system for nearly a century, and that the Palestinians don't have many options militarily beyond unguided rockets like this.

But Hamas taking the step to launch thousands of unguided rockets at civilian cities, then playing the victim and complaining about 'GazaUnderAttck' when their HQ is smart bombed after a 20 minute warning to get out, c'mon. I sympathize with the Palestinian plight, but not so much when launching indiscriminate attacks on cities. Eventually that style of indiscriminate warfare always backfires, either by the opponent eventually getting fed up and doing the same (London-Dresden in WW2 for example) and/or uniting the people being attacked.

[Shadowferal]

Actually part of those funds we don't sell our militray technology to almost everyone, the moment US stops paying we will likely thrive even more and gain even more money than we lose. It's a win for the US they gain cutting edge military technology all while preventing it from going to non friendly forces and all of it for pennies compared to how much it would cost.

The moment oil becomes a thing of the past, so will Israel. Israeli tech isn't relevant. I'm pretty sure one of the biggest reasons that there's a "left wing" thete is recognition of the fact that they will eventually be alone. And then the options become learn to live with the neighbors; kill anyone and everyone; turn the whole area into a radioactive crater.
In any event the US will wash their hands of it.

[s_bushido]

Hamas is launching literally thousands of totally *unguided* rockets

7 dead

Israel on the other hand [is using] accurate smart bombs

67 dead

Yet, for some reason globally Israel has taken far more negative PR from it's retaliatory attacks than Hamas.

Sure is a real head-scratcher. -_-

Nevermind that this started when, what, Israeli police attacked a mosque? Yeah, it's totally a mystery why they get the bad PR.

[Machismo]

At the end of the day, Israel's government is practicing the policy of apartheid on Palestinians. It wasn't right when South Africa did it, and it's still wrong to this day.

Hamas is not innocent in all of this, they are also guilty of killing innocent people.

Fuck the Israeli government, they are a bunch of shitty Nazis. Fuck Hamas, they are a bunch of shitty terrorists.

[Felya]

They are asking for money because there is already a deal, might as well sweeten it.

There is a deal with Russia for a ceasefire... I am not sure what sort of money Palestinians will exchange with Russia, to stop fighting with Israel. :/

I'll give you 1 big example - Russia.

Uhm... Russia can’t afford it...

[Elegiac]

The disparity in force has grown to the point that it is no longer appropriate to call it a two sided conflict, tbh. What we’re seeing now much more resembles the situation in South Africa, as said - Israel has essentially become an apartheid regime.